LIBYA (Merged) Use this thread ONLY
 

If you had to enforce a NFZ (on behalf of the UN, for example) over the main population centres of Libya would you do it from carriers or from somewhere like Sicily or Malta? Sicily to Tripoli looks a similar distance as Incirlik to the old Iraqi northern NFZ. Banghazi is further, about an hour from Palermo but much less from Crete.

Yes, Ark and a few SHAR could provide a good day time cover with Malta a secure rear area.

Oops there we go again, looking in the past.

Given adequate basing facilites and capacity surely Typhoons flying from loacal airbases would be more appropriate to enforcing a NFZ than harriers flying from an aircraft carrier?

Lord Owen was on the BBC last night calling for just such an operation. It's about time the EU, particularly those countries on the Mediterranean stepped up and showed that they are good for something. It is primarily their neighbourhood and their political, economic and energy ties that are risk. How to win friends and influence people. Get those Typhoons and Rafales moving southwards.

Depends upon the carrier/aircraft, surely? And the threat.

Well how many carriers do we have? Besides the only aircraft they would be carrying would be harriers. The Threat? Presumably there are more of those Mirage Jets?

Yeah from what I gather there are loads of serviceable jets kicking around at Cby and the Typhoon boys are finding 6 QRA jets a breeze what with their stupidly high manning levels. I'm sure all those bored aircrew would love an Op. Something they could get there teeth into and use all those flying hours for something productive...... Oh no hang on. . .... The sarcasm button appears to be stuck on.

Air Force Equipment

Bombers : 6 TU-22A/U Blinder.
Fighter/Ground Attack : 50 Mig-21MF Fishbed, 75 MiG-23B/ML Flogger, 60 Mig-25 Foxbat, 15 Mirage F1-ED, 6 Mirage F1-BD, 40 MIG 23BN Flogger, 15 Mig 23-U Flogger, 30 Mirage 5D/DE, 14 Mirage 5DD, 14 Mirage F1-AD, 45 SU-20/22 Fitter.
Counterinsurgency: 24 Jastreb J-1E.
Reconnaissance: 5 Mirage 5DR, 7 Mig 25-R Foxbat.
Strike and multi-role aircraft : 12 SU-24MK Fencer, 40 SU-22M-3 Fitter, 10 MIG-25R/U Foxbat, 2 TU-22U Blinder.

High_Expect, here is some oil for the sarcasm button. I was really suggesting that carriers are not necessarily needed for the type of operation that is proposed. It was in answer to the question posed by the OP as well as a reply by Pontius.

I will of course surrender to your better knowledge on available aircraft and crew. Besides I think if there is an imposition of a NFZ then it should be policed by those countries in the neighbourhood of Libya.

SAMS
 

Local air superiority might need more than a few fighters and, presumably, some assured sea control would be required for carrier ops. Wiki mentions that Libya has SA2, 3 and 6 so some good ISTAR and hard/soft counter measures would be required. I think it would be fair to assume that Gaddafi (or however you spell him today) would be more than happy for his AD assets to be weapons free. I'm thinking that AWACS, AAR, SEAD/EW, Recce and pre and post fighter sweeps would be pretty essential for starters. If carriers are involved, add some ASUW and ASW airborne assets. Given the distances, you could probably protect the land bases with QRA but that would likely not be responsive enough to give cover to an up-range carrier.

Why do all that? just have some fast air with tanker support from nearest friendly base in med, easy peasy! and it's totally hypothetical as it won't be happening.

...or act before all that is needed:ugh:

Method much the same way as the NFZ was enforced over Bosnia for most of the 1990s. Difference should be that the NFZ should be strictly enforced as well as monitored this time: ie some political will and robust ROE.

Close enough.

Libya: A Qaddafi by any other name would still be a bloodthirsty dictator | The Economist

WW, did you remember to knock 2 F1s an Su22 off that list?

I did not. Figured that might be one cherry requiring several bites over the next few days...

And how ironic that the only aircraft fleet sufficiently large to monitor a NFZ for 10 years [plus] non-stop (and sometimes two NFZ at the same time during that period!), then continue through TELIC for another 5 years or so was the TGRF. Yes the Jag/SHAR/GR5-7 did a bit but they couldn't manage it without a break. Will we ever learn ....?:E

[not forgetting the support of the Victor / VC10 and Tri* fleets as well of course;)]

Willard Whyte,

That is a very old inventory and not really representative of the current fleet. The MiG-25s were taken out of service some time ago. The Mirage Vs were sold off to Pakistan. The Tu-22 Blinders went years ago. A small fleet of Mirage F.1s were recently overhauled by Dassault. The fleet is very much representative of what has been seen at the Libyan aviation and arms fairs over the past couple of years - LAVEX.

The MiG-25 noted in the following link were examples dragged out for the enthusiasts. The Libyans will have a fleet of Su-22 Fitter, Su-24 Fencer, MiG-23 Flogger, MiG-21, L-39 and Sokos for light ground attack, Mirage F1s along with Hind helos.

Photo Search Results | Airliners.net

TJ

101 Sqn in her glorious days of being a pure tanker Sqn was certainly a busy place to be post GW1- shame the Sqn are seemingly losing 2 more frames this summer to the scrap heap - especially with the Tristar AAR capable frames failure rate for towlines/trails during the last 14 months.

I realise that we have less RAF/Navy FJ to support BUT don't forget that the VC10's was deployed to Seeb in 2002 to support the US Navy flying Ops in Afghanistan and not RAF fast jets.

Another look at current Libyan Air Force equipment.

Libyan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bevo