LIBYA (Merged) Use this thread ONLY
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Oops?
Just watching Sky news @ 1900Z, & saw footage of F15E wreckage at crash site. In what seemed to be the fuselage centre section, my laser-like vision spotted a control-type rod. This rod was protruding from a transverse bulkhead, into a clear void area fwd of the bulkhead. I am jolly sure that rod eye-end & bearing assy at the fwd end of the rod had a nut & bolt through it, but there was nothing connected to the rod eye-end.
It looked exactly as though a disconnection of the rod had taken place at this eye-end, and the nut & bolt had been popped back into the disconnected eye-end in order not to be misplaced during some maintenance activity involving this rod. However, no reconnection fwd of this point seemed to have been made?
Before the Hounds of Hell descend on me from Pprune & cast cistercians upon my veracity, parentage & eyesight, I would respectfully point out that:
1. I haven't had a drink yet.
2. I have been a fully paid-up Rigger for 40yrs (& still at it).
3. It was a short screen shot on Sky.
4. I know the F15 is a fly-by-wire jet.
I'll watch it again later. Perhaps I'll start drafting my withdrawal & apology now, just in case. Do please check the footage yourself: comments on the back of a £50 note please.
It looked exactly as though a disconnection of the rod had taken place at this eye-end, and the nut & bolt had been popped back into the disconnected eye-end in order not to be misplaced during some maintenance activity involving this rod. However, no reconnection fwd of this point seemed to have been made?
Before the Hounds of Hell descend on me from Pprune & cast cistercians upon my veracity, parentage & eyesight, I would respectfully point out that:
1. I haven't had a drink yet.
2. I have been a fully paid-up Rigger for 40yrs (& still at it).
3. It was a short screen shot on Sky.
4. I know the F15 is a fly-by-wire jet.
I'll watch it again later. Perhaps I'll start drafting my withdrawal & apology now, just in case. Do please check the footage yourself: comments on the back of a £50 note please.
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Halton Brat
Profound, but perhaps worthy of its own thread ... unless the BoI wants to keep that schtumm despite the imagery on the Web 
There's a War on, you know
There's a War on, you know
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Why oh why do the yanks have to go in with guns blazing for yet another blue on blue? Are they not advanced enough to have pilot radios? We had those in 1980. Now 2011. It is indeed generous of the 'rebels' to apparently harbour no grudge, but it may be they will be a little reticent to rescue anyone actually from any wreckage for fear of being hosed willy nilly.
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@ BOAC
Why oh why do the yanks have to go in with guns blazing for yet another blue on blue?
Are you talking about 'casualties' paraded by The Duck?
That's a very sharp observation, Mr Brat. I see exactly what you mean from the video.
However, from a later part of the estimable Lindsey Hilsum's report, I note that the farmer whose land the Strike Eagle schtumphed onto claimed that
Yes, I know about the reliability of eyewitnesses, but it does sound reasonable, nicht?
airsound
However, from a later part of the estimable Lindsey Hilsum's report, I note that the farmer whose land the Strike Eagle schtumphed onto claimed that
two planes came together, I saw everything with my own eyes. There was no shooting. The plane fell by itself and caught fire
airsound
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MPN
In the rescue of the Pilots, the media / reporters on the ground are saying when the helicopter went into pick up one of the pilots, they fired on locals who were close to keep them away.
It's on any newspaper front page in the US, UK and Aus.
.
In the rescue of the Pilots, the media / reporters on the ground are saying when the helicopter went into pick up one of the pilots, they fired on locals who were close to keep them away.
It's on any newspaper front page in the US, UK and Aus.
.
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I understood the rescue mission was carried out by an Osprey and not a helo.
From the UK:-
Channel 4 obtained an interview with one of the six people who were reportedly shot by American forces as they tried to rescue the second stricken US airman today. The man, whose son was also injured, losing a leg, said he still loved the Americans, adding:
We would have picked him up and put him wherever he wanted, in a safe place. Even the first pilot, we had a celebration for him.
A man who saw the incident said:
We are disturbed by the shooting, because if they had given us a chance we would have handed over both pilots. This shooting created great panic
From the UK:-
Channel 4 obtained an interview with one of the six people who were reportedly shot by American forces as they tried to rescue the second stricken US airman today. The man, whose son was also injured, losing a leg, said he still loved the Americans, adding:
We would have picked him up and put him wherever he wanted, in a safe place. Even the first pilot, we had a celebration for him. A man who saw the incident said:
We are disturbed by the shooting, because if they had given us a chance we would have handed over both pilots. This shooting created great panic
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Oops, the Sequel
Further to my previous, I just saw it again @ 2020Z on Sky news. I'm still of the view that this looks like a disconnected rod of some kind; the nut & bolt are clearly visible in the eye end. If I'm wrong, I'll put myself on a fizzer & make bedpacks for the rest of my life.
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From the BBC
Former UK ambassador to Washington Sir Christopher Meyer tweets: Unless Gaddafi implodes, sooner or later there'll be a need for boots on the ground to police a ceasefire. Better be Arab or Turkish boots."
And
Libya has declared gold reserves worth more than $6bn at current prices, thought to be held largely at home.
The reserves are substantial, ranking in the global top 25, according International Monetary Fund (IMF) data.
They could potentially be used to finance Colonel Gaddafi's government at a time when it is subject international financial sanctions.
It might be possible to transport the gold to other African countries and sell it.
Former UK ambassador to Washington Sir Christopher Meyer tweets: Unless Gaddafi implodes, sooner or later there'll be a need for boots on the ground to police a ceasefire. Better be Arab or Turkish boots."
And
Libya has declared gold reserves worth more than $6bn at current prices, thought to be held largely at home.
The reserves are substantial, ranking in the global top 25, according International Monetary Fund (IMF) data.
They could potentially be used to finance Colonel Gaddafi's government at a time when it is subject international financial sanctions.
It might be possible to transport the gold to other African countries and sell it.
Last edited by draken55; 22nd Mar 2011 at 21:22.
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Halton Brat - Got to agree with you on this, definitley an unusual disconnect if ever I saw one. Never known a bolt and nut to reconnect themselves!
Been a rigger myself for over 20 years (I know, just a young 'un!) but this is one for the BoI to have a close look at. Wish I had the ability to zoom in, it even looks like there may be a split pin still fitted!!
Just one thing though - and don't blame me, blame Wiki, but the F15 is old-fashioned hydro-mechanical not fly-by-wire. Looks like it could be the Airbrake Act?
Been a rigger myself for over 20 years (I know, just a young 'un!) but this is one for the BoI to have a close look at. Wish I had the ability to zoom in, it even looks like there may be a split pin still fitted!!
Just one thing though - and don't blame me, blame Wiki, but the F15 is old-fashioned hydro-mechanical not fly-by-wire. Looks like it could be the Airbrake Act?
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Rigchick
Thanks for putting me straight on F15 controls; I made the mistake of assuming that all modern combat jets are FBW (I'm a B747 man now, it's FBW - bloody long steel wires.....).
I started out on the Wiggins Aerodyne; rigging the Wing-Warping system was a nightmare.........
I started out on the Wiggins Aerodyne; rigging the Wing-Warping system was a nightmare.........
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Its a war no?
I understood the rescue mission was carried out by an Osprey and not a helo.
From the UK:-
Channel 4 obtained an interview with one of the six people who were reportedly shot by American forces as they tried to rescue the second stricken US airman today. The man, whose son was also injured, losing a leg, said he still loved the Americans, adding:
We would have picked him up and put him wherever he wanted, in a safe place. Even the first pilot, we had a celebration for him.
A man who saw the incident said:
We are disturbed by the shooting, because if they had given us a chance we would have handed over both pilots. This shooting created great panic
From the UK:-
Channel 4 obtained an interview with one of the six people who were reportedly shot by American forces as they tried to rescue the second stricken US airman today. The man, whose son was also injured, losing a leg, said he still loved the Americans, adding:
We would have picked him up and put him wherever he wanted, in a safe place. Even the first pilot, we had a celebration for him. A man who saw the incident said:
We are disturbed by the shooting, because if they had given us a chance we would have handed over both pilots. This shooting created great panic
The V22 was in CSAR mission and not picking sunk yacht survivors from the sea.
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HB
I hope you will be a regular contributor on many more threads, your insight and eye for detail is much appreciated in combating the usual nit-picking cock-fighters.
I hope you will be a regular contributor on many more threads, your insight and eye for detail is much appreciated in combating the usual nit-picking cock-fighters.
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I sure the people we are there to protect have now learned the lesson
the New York Times has claimed that two 500lb bombs were dropped during the rescue of the pilots overnight, quoting an unnamed Marine Corps officer who claimed the grounded pilot - who was in contact with the airborne rescue crew - asked for the explosives to be dropped as a precaution:
My understanding is he asked for the ordnance to be delivered between where he was located and where he saw people coming towards him...to keep what he thought was a force closing in on him from closing in on him.
After reports from The Guardian that US forces members had denied firing any shots during the rescue of two airmen, Sky News has reported that US military sources confirmed shots were fired during the operation.
the New York Times has claimed that two 500lb bombs were dropped during the rescue of the pilots overnight, quoting an unnamed Marine Corps officer who claimed the grounded pilot - who was in contact with the airborne rescue crew - asked for the explosives to be dropped as a precaution:
My understanding is he asked for the ordnance to be delivered between where he was located and where he saw people coming towards him...to keep what he thought was a force closing in on him from closing in on him. After reports from The Guardian that US forces members had denied firing any shots during the rescue of two airmen, Sky News has reported that US military sources confirmed shots were fired during the operation.
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WW
I am humbled by such comments coming from such a senior Ppruner, Sir; many thanks.
I owe all I am to my apprenticeship at the RAF College of Knowledge; indeed, when an extremely bullish AOC demanded to know what I based my judgement on during his Annual Inspection at Gutersloh, I replied "I was a Halton Apprentice, Sir". Camera pans to Stn Cdr chewing wasps......
Distant sound of Thread Drift Alarm............
I owe all I am to my apprenticeship at the RAF College of Knowledge; indeed, when an extremely bullish AOC demanded to know what I based my judgement on during his Annual Inspection at Gutersloh, I replied "I was a Halton Apprentice, Sir". Camera pans to Stn Cdr chewing wasps......
Distant sound of Thread Drift Alarm............
HB - good clear images on the Sky news website at 53 secs in: Video, Libya: Fourth Night Of Tripoli Air Strikes As US Jet Crashes In Libya | World News | Sky News [Pictures of crashed US Air Force F15 in Libya]
Looks similar to the air brake actuator from this cutaway drawing:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...DDF-15SMTD.jpg (best viewed using view image and Ctrl + to zoom in)
Any reason to deploy the air brake when attempting to recover from a possible flat spin?
WF
Looks similar to the air brake actuator from this cutaway drawing:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...DDF-15SMTD.jpg (best viewed using view image and Ctrl + to zoom in)
Any reason to deploy the air brake when attempting to recover from a possible flat spin?
WF
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Wokafans
Thanks for the great legwork, truly worthy of Hercule Poirot!
I'm not a Seat/Stick Interface Unit, but I don't think Airbrake would have done anything in a a flat vertical descent that this crash site suggests. I recall going to a 4FTS Gnat crash site in Snowdonia that was similar; very considerate of the crew to park the wreck in one spot, we thought at the time (crew ejected OK).
I'm not a Seat/Stick Interface Unit, but I don't think Airbrake would have done anything in a a flat vertical descent that this crash site suggests. I recall going to a 4FTS Gnat crash site in Snowdonia that was similar; very considerate of the crew to park the wreck in one spot, we thought at the time (crew ejected OK).
Is this any use? - it's as big as I can get it to go without more pixellation
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Airsound
Dear oh dear; I'm having a deja vu overdose here. Your still pic shows what I think is a loosely-assembled nut & bolt in a disconnected eye-end. I must temper this by saying that:
1. My only F15 experience is seeing one at an airshow.
2. I have no idea what system this rod relates to.
3. Without an up close & personal inspection of this item, I'm only able to guess.
But......I don't like the look of it...........I wouldn't have knowingly flown in it............I can think of several similar cases over the years..........
'Smoking Gun'?
1. My only F15 experience is seeing one at an airshow.
2. I have no idea what system this rod relates to.
3. Without an up close & personal inspection of this item, I'm only able to guess.
But......I don't like the look of it...........I wouldn't have knowingly flown in it............I can think of several similar cases over the years..........
'Smoking Gun'?