muppetofthenorth

Nothing wrong with knowing stuff, Shemy, I did the same once at a P2 presentation. Most of the audience laughed *at* me, but then the Flight Lieutenant present said to the rest of them "if you don't know that, don't turn up".

dagowly

love it straight to the point, puts the cat amongst the pigeons

Rico1903

Does anyone know the current length of time between the intitial interview at the AFCO and (hopefully) starting at BRNC?

AFCO interview- FATS- POAC- AIB- BRNC

Looks lengthy!

blimy

POAC? I dont know what this is and have only just been through the system. My whole application took over a year to get to AIB and im still not at BRNC yet. Might have to re-sit AIB, sigh!

Wannabe Flyboy

POAC - Potential Officer Aircrew Course. A 3 day jolly at Yeovilton/Culdrose being shown around the base and maybe getting a short flight somewhere.

airborne_artist

AFCO to FATs - six weeks, perhaps less. FATs to AIB - six to eight weeks. AIB to BRNC - three to twelve months (an AIB pass is only valid for 12 months).

There's no need to do the POAC at all, and really you'd be best off doing it before you fill in the paperwork at the AFCO - it's meant for you to see if the RN/FAA is for you. There are only about 130/150 POAC places/year.

You'll be pleased to hear that computerisation has not speeded things up! I went from AFCO (no interview, just collected the forms) to BRNC in 4.5 months - in 1977/8....

The AFCO interview for the RN is not pass/fail, and the ACLO simply puts info on paper to go to AIB. The ACLO has no input and makes no recommendations so long as you have the min educational requirements and are within the age limits.

BluntM8

Shemy,

Having done both, I can say a categorical NO!

WSO training has some similarities with Pilot training - rules of the air, principles of flight, air ops and meterology to name but a few - but it is a totally different skill set with correspondingly different training. In pilot training you learn the motor skills to fly the aircraft, the tactical skills to fight it and the airmanship. During WSO training you learn to use your voice to fly the aircraft through the pilot, ways of presenting the big picture to a crew, tactical thinking and the airmanship. There are large areas where common sense is common sense but the two are not the same. If you want to get a good idea of the difference, I would strongly recommend that you try to arrange a visit to 55 Sqn at Cranwell and one of the BFJT sqn at Linton - just take a filter to remove the student bravado from both!

Blunty

Rico1903

Thanks AA.

BluntM8

Shemy

No. It's a completely different sylabus from day 1 after IOT. The first time you crew up with a student pilot is on the OCU.

In short nav training goes:

Tutors: Approx 15 trips learning basic techniques of applying drift, time revision due to changes in groundspeed and some medium to low level work.

Tucanos: Further development of basic techniques and workcycles at 210 kts. Maintaining and regaining a mission timeline. Off track navigation and practice diversions. Visual targeting.

Dominies: Advanced techniques such as medium to low to medium, airbourne re-tasking, CAS holds, real-world timelines and hard times-on-target, radar interpretation and fixing, late take off action, PDs from medium and low level.

Hawks: Elements from above, with further tactical considerations and in formations.

Pilot Training:

Tutors: Elementary handling skills such as climbing, turning, descending and circuits. Brief intro to formation, instrument and navigation flying.

Tucanos: Basic handling, areobatics, formation, medium and low level navigation, emergency handling.

Hawks: More handling, more of all the above, with a greater emphasis on tactical skills.


Both Pilots and Navs do the same things whilst airbourne, but the way the task is approached is totally different. At times the WSO will not be too busy - especially if the pilot is good. At other times, it may be that the pilot has his hands full just flying the aircraft and the WSO is able to contribute significantly to the flight. If you like, think of it as the difference between the driver and navigator in a Rally Car - the driver will be concentrating on driving the best safest line, driving smoothly and quickly, whilst the navigator will be reading from the map, working out where they stand in relation to their rivals, how much faster they need to go/can back off to stay competitive.

I'll admit that the role is tricky to understand - it's hard to put across well in this format too! It's very easy to feel that a nav has little to offer that the pilot can't do himself. In fact, at the early stages of training it's true that the pilot flying you will be steps ahead of you. However, as training progresses you tend to feel more in control of what's going on and you work together, solving problems and making decisions as a team, each based on your own specialist knowledge. When it comes together and you are working well with a pilot, it's very rewarding!

I really hope this helps, Shemy. As I said, the best way to understand it is to go and have a look, if you possibly can.

Blunty

Jeevo

Hi

Does anyone know what the "piece of written work" is for the Part 2 / Fam visit at OASC? What is it based on and is it assessed?

Thanks

ALM In Waiting

Its a pen picture for your training staff at IOT. Unless your going NCA, in which case you won't have to do one, AFAIK.

Jeevo

Thanks ALM, still rather confused though what is a 'pen picture'? I m going for WSO btw

MrFlibble

One side of A4, handwritten, about you and your life.

warty99

A "pen picture" simply means a piece of writing that describes you. Instead of someone literally drawing a picture of you, you can use also words to build up a "picture", hence the name. It's sometimes requested as part of a reference (in fact, a reference may very well simply be a pen picture in some circumstances).

warty99

A reference shouldn't just be a statement of how you performed in a previous job; to be of use to a potential employer it must also give an indication of your core qualities. A character reference would CERTAINLY be a pen picture, no matter what your preferred writing implement.

jaw7569

how long till weapon systems officers are no longer needed in fast jets, like the tornado f3 and gr4? id love to become a wso once ive got my A levels, but should i be setting my heart on a job which might not exist by the time i get there.

Also, would a degree give someone a much better chance when it comes to aircrew, or is it really down to the kind of person that you are? when it comes to applying i just want to give myself the best chance possible.
id be thankful to anyone that can help.

Pontius Navigator

Jaw, 2020-2025 I believe on the GR4. The F3 is due to go earlier but who knows what will happen if we don't get Tranche 3 Typhoon.

The WSO requirement last year was just 1/6th of the pilot requirement. Why do you not want to pilot? That said, those WSO that join wanting to be WSO often do better in training than those who join as pilot and get retreaded to WSO.

Item 2 every time.

The difference though is that the YOU pre-Uni would be different from the YOU post uni. At OASC however you would really be compared with other pre-uni candidates as they would not expect you to be as mature as graduates.

It really is personal qualities, initiative and leadership etc. Now read the stick at the top of the page.

Craigeedee

Hi, I’ve just started sixth form; training for my PPL also I’m about half way through. And I am looking into getting sponsorship for military aircrew.

I’d much prefer to join the RAF but think the chances of becoming a pilot in the Navy are better than that in the RAF, what do you think, is selection and training for the RAF harder? How do they compare?

Also, if I try and fail for the RAF is this then a bad mark against my name for applying to the navy after? Will they feel like second best? Do they care?

Lots of questions J

cheers guys

17thhour

Encouraging post above

Well the army air corps I believe its still the 4 year with no asthma thing. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Get a misdiagnosis though. But the RAF/ RN/AAC selection is all the same aptitude test at Cranwell.

gblackbeard

Here's a description of (hopefully) all the aptitude tests given at OASC:

http://www.mattieb.110mb.com/apt.php

If anyone has recently had the tests, and thinks any info is wrong, has extra info, or any tests are missing, please post here to let us know.