Ben_AirD

First post on here folks, can I just say I've already found a few answers to my questions by searching the posts and this site has proved extremely helpful.

I'm at OASC on the 16th Dec (Im applying for Pilot and WSO). At my initial interview a few months ago I was advised it would benefit my application if I visited some stations and was pro-active during the spare weeks/months that will unfold during my application. I've been lucky enough to work at RAF St. Athen, Leeming and cottesmore in my civvi job on Hawk, Harrier and Nimrod A/c and also recently went on a RAF familiarisation visit with other applicants to learn more about RAF life.

Acting on the advice given I've spoken with pilots at Leuchars and currently arranging for a day visit with 51 sqn at Waddington in the coming weeks. My question is have any of you guys who are currently applying for Pilot/WSO or who'm have already been accepted onto IOT been advised the same and additionally did you/are you doing similar in your preparation or am I over doing it.

Cheers

BluntM8

Ben,

Sounds like one of the most pro-active attitudes I've heard in a long time. No, I wouldn't say you're over doing it at all!

My only piece of advice would be to make sure you devote an equal amount of research to the WSO branch as pilot - if you put it on the form they expect you to be serious about taking it if offered! Expect an equal amount of questions on all your branch choices!

Blunty

joe_luther17

thank you Blunty, thats great cheers!!! and too those few of you who want to give snide little sarcastic answers why dont you just try to be civil and help someone out who could be working with you in the future!! if thats doesnt work out for you...then you might as well go on the rest of your days making silly little jokes, trying to make yourself seem clever, when everyone else can see that your just insecure and are trying to make yourself seem bigger than you actually are!! thanks again blunty, your alright mate!!

Mr C Hinecap

joe - calm down. Think on for a moment:

The people sniping at you are mostly in the RAF. You want to join the RAF. These ARE the people who have passed the tests and do the jobs you seek information about. They talk the talk and walk the walk.

You posted a pretty biff first post that showed you had not read anything else contained within this thread or outlined any previous research you may have undertaken. People around here like to see initiative and drive and determination (the same as those who interview applicants funnily enough). All evidence pointed towards none of that in your post, so you attracted some (very, very gentle) banter.

Suggest you take a deep breath, start again and read more. Then you can ask intelligent questions and get intelligent answers. Spelling mistakes will aways make you look numpty.

Hangar_9

Just an Update to let you all know, on the evening of 6th November i passed my Filter Interview with Flying Colours.

I was told i have Excellent Personal Qualities , am a Well rounded Character and have huge potential as an Officer.

I am Applying for a Sixth Form Scholarship at present in the position of Pilot or secondly WSO.

The interview proved demanding at first but i soon settled and began to accurately answer the questions before me.

Thanks to all for the help received in the past from this thread and look forward to chatting more to you guys over the coming months.

Thanks,

Sam

Pontius Navigator

Well done Sam and thank you for taking the trouble to post your good news here. Many come and then disappear without trace.

dave_perry

This may sound stupid, however, I'm really not sure on this one. I know that on EFTS the firefly is used to train pilots. Is this the only only aircraft or do they use the Grob Tutor. Or is the Tutor only used for UAS's?

Dave

BluntM8

As I understand it, EFT is carried out at a couple of locations countrywide as well as at Barkston Heath. In fact, I believe that the students at BH are the Army and Navy Officers undergoing EFT as part of JEFTS. I understand that RAF Students carry out EFT as part of No 1 EFTS at either Church Fenton, Cranwell or Wyton. These locations are all Tutor units.

Furthermore there is a flight of Fireflies at Cranwell which are used for MELIN. Nothing is straightforward!

Blunty

Flik Roll

JEFTS is now DEFTS

Melchett01

Christ

What happened to good old flying training that was easy to understand. Now you need a degree just to remember all the various locations and which hoops you have to jump through to pass the interview!

It's gotten so complicated, I wouldn't put it past some random admin type being able to turn up to groundschool and getting away with it on the grounds of an admin cock up missing their name off the list!

Flik Roll

Now there's an idea... shall I just show up at IOT?! I've heard rumours of it being done before

Pontius Navigator

Kiwi Chick, what do you have to do to get promoted in the RNZAF? I now you used to have the B and C exams when we had binned the B and later the C. Now promotion is on selection having done, and passed, a number of qualifying courses.

Ben_AirD

Kiwi, read your post and understand your points. cheers

Elias seems you still have a few decisions to make but you’ve got the time to make them being 14. Just think long and thoroughly about them and apply yourself 100%.

Peeps - I’m very determined to join the RAF and aware you have to read between the lines on what you’re applying for. Like the majority of pilot applicants nowadays I would love to fly Typhoon as I’m aware of its capabilities etc, however I’d prefer, as a matter of my personal morals, to fly a defensive role as opposed to an offensive/strike role. Would this come across as “weak” in my interview at OASC if I said this?

To explain for some peeps who may not understand my reasoning - I’m 100% prepared to shoot another A/c down if entering British aerospace/causing a threat, but say for instance 95% comfortable with the idea of dropping bombs over the Helmand province which could entail loss of innocent civilian life.

If successful in my application I would carry out both types of role its just that little doubt in my mind about one. Are there any serving/trainee pilots/WSO’s out there who have similar thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Ben

Pontius Navigator

Ben you raise an interesting point. While you would be happy to engage an attacker on the UK (in UK air space?) you would appear to have reservations about operations in support of HMG's policies overseas.

If those policies, such as nuclear retalliation against an agressor nation had been ordered in response to a NATO Article 5 operation in, say eastern Turkey, how would you have reacted?

That said, the RAF performs many non-combat roles. Some are direct combat support - AWAC, ISTAR, AAR, AT. Others are less obvious as combat roles - SH Gunships for instance where you get up close and personal.

Others, such as UK based SAR, which may go civilian anyway, are pure humanitarian roles.

Would your views count against you at OASC? Possibly. However provided you have what it takes and can argue cogently why you should be considered for either limited combat or a non-combatant role, then you would have a chance.

The key is first class aptitude, personal qualities and a keen ability to argue your case.

Mr C Hinecap

Ben - interesting view and one I expect to see more of.

You need to understand - the ultimate extent of a military job can be to kill others to attain an objective set by those you elected into power. You'll find most people in the military don't actually want to go to war and don't want to kill people. They have reasoned their roles with themselves and want to to do their best in the role they are in - often more for those around them than for any higher calling. The defence of the UK can actually include going on the offensive, so you need to keep thinking hard - and keep challenging yourself and others with those thoughts.

airborne_artist

PN - I'll argue differently - IMHO (and it's only my opinion) - anyone who wants to join HM Forces as a pilot, is, like those who join the infantry, the cavalry etc., expected to take on any authorised mission, regardless of the munitions used or the target and its proximity to potential civilian casualties. Clearly, if there are risks of civilian casualties, then it's important to use everything available to minimise them.

Plenty of examples from WW2 where civilian casualties were expected, but where leaving the enemy force in place would have created far more casualties amongst allied forces.

It's not realistic to join as aircrew and place boundaries on your role. Move over, plenty more applicants who will take the job.

BluntM8

Ben,

Whilst PN makes some good points, and the arguments put forward by AA counter them nicely, I'll just throw in a practical consideration. The RAF have a great many applicants for every available pilot slot. Therefore they are able to pick and choose who they would like to take on. You will be competing against a large number of very high calibre applicants who are equally determined to suceed - without imposing any limitations on themselves. The cost of selection, IOT and flying training is very high, and the RAF will expect that they can best decide the future careers of their recruits. I have no issue with your moral standpoint, but if I were recruiting from two identical candidates I would chose the one who offered me more flexibility for future roles.

Supposing you aced flying training and got role disposed to the Harrier. What would you then say to the RAF? And how might you expect them to react?

Now, I'm not saying that there aren't people who join and have strongly held preferences about where they end up, and I'm certainally not saying that the occasional individual hasn't withdrawn themselves from training when a streaming decision hasn't fitted their aspirations. However they are not the most popular people when they do so!

Blunty

Intersceptic

As far as I'm aware, you don't really get a choice about deployment beyond a location preference. However there is a question at interview along the lines: "Where do you see yourself in 5 years time if you are successful?", which you could legitimately answer with "Flying a Typhoon F2 out of Leuchars/Conningsby". Also, I'm interested to know how you would feel about being based with 1435 Flight at Mount Pleasant. Is it a case of not wanting to be based outside the mainland, or just any UK airspace?

I'm in a similar boat to you at the moment regarding the application process. In my opinion the desire to join the RAF naturally means a willingness to serve HM and the UK in whatever role, no matter what you think about the current operations. As I understand it, more often than not a ground attack role is in direct support of UK/allied troops on the ground, so your role will be 'defensive' for a sizeable proportion of the time.

Plus, as they say, offence is the best form of defence.

johnfairr

PN,

You make a very valid point regarding the duty of officers. When I went to Biggin Hill in 1971, one of the interviews started off with: “Well, Candidate B3, let’s say you are captain of a Vulcan and it is Monday morning. The Boss of your squadron has called a meeting of all crews and says, “OK lads, this is it, we’re off to nuke Moscow”, What would you do?”

My immediate reaction was, “Well, sir, I’m not sure it would happen exactly like that, as I would imagine there had been a build up of events that would lead up to this point and it wouldn’t come as a bolt from the blue (This produced a wry grin from the other two interviewers . . !), but I suppose I would know what the reasons were for this action and it would, hopefully be the culmination of all the training.”

“Yes, yes, but would you drop a nuke??”

“Well, as I have said, sir, to have got in to this situation, there would surely be more than a meeting and the order to go, so being aware of the tension in the world and, probably, the reason for this attack, which I assume would be in retaliation (Again, wry smiles from the other two . . ), I would be in a position to evaluate the actions”
,
“Come on, come on, what would you DO???”

“Get airborne, sir!”

Seemed to sort the buggar out, he didn’t ask any more questions all interview long!!

Must have said something right, as I ended up with my own F4 and a chauffer.

jf

warty99

Ben

Whether it's an aircraft entering UK airspace, or a target on the ground in Aghanistan, both are being targetted because they pose a threat to the UK. I can see why you would be more comfortable with the former, becuase it is more "obviously" a threat, and therefore more easily justifiable, but does that mean you would only ever want to take action when it becomes immediately necessary? Do you feel that pre-emptive action is always wrong, even if acting sooner rather than later may, in the long run, save more lives? If not always wrong, in what circumstances is it justified?

I think everyone asks these questions at some point (at least they should do), but you do need to be able to answer them and be comfortable in your own mind before you proceed. A favourite question during interviews is to ask how you might react if you were asked to bomb a school. Rest assured, if you have been told to bomb a school, that decision has been made by someone with more knowledge of the circumstances, and who is just as aware of the consequences as you are. They won't enjoy giving the order, but they do need to be able to trust you to carry it out. The system cannot operate without trust in every member of the team to do his or her duty, and if that 5% doubt might translate into refusing an order, you will not be a good part of that team. It's great that you're thinking so hard about this, but it's important to remember that now is the time to do the thinking and make firm decisions aboiut your moral viewpoint - not when you're given the order.

Warty