OASC 'CANDIDATES' and WANNABES, PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST!
Nick,
Well done.
As said above concentrate on JEngO later - you've first got to get through Cranditz.
You will be taken to the very limit of your endurance just to show you where it is and what it's like - Blessed is he that knows his own limitations!*
Always remember that if the DI Staff see you giving 100% they will help you by a similar amount.
The very best of luck to you.
*PS - that includes patience some of the nif-naf can be mind blowing but don't take your eye off the main objective - to graduate.
Well done.
As said above concentrate on JEngO later - you've first got to get through Cranditz.
You will be taken to the very limit of your endurance just to show you where it is and what it's like - Blessed is he that knows his own limitations!*
Always remember that if the DI Staff see you giving 100% they will help you by a similar amount.
The very best of luck to you.
*PS - that includes patience some of the nif-naf can be mind blowing but don't take your eye off the main objective - to graduate.
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Well done Nick,
Totally agree with all above. One thing - don't expect previous experience in RNR to help too much. The RAF works in a weird and sometimes wonderful way that is significantly different to the RN and mystified me when I was first exposed to it. Concentrate on one thing at a time -prioritise IOT, worry about engineering later.
As a JEngO you are the link and the buffer between the techies and everyone else, SEngO, Pilots, Navs and adminers. Remember the JEngO's office is a place for having a word with Aircrew as well as lineys. If they are being out of order in the Line Office invite them into the office for a chat. Better that they vent on you in private than on the Sgt in front of the SACs. If there is a problem you can then sort it out and not embarrass anyone.
Happy to download my (recent!) experience (RN and RAF) by PM rather than bore this thread for longer.
Totally agree with all above. One thing - don't expect previous experience in RNR to help too much. The RAF works in a weird and sometimes wonderful way that is significantly different to the RN and mystified me when I was first exposed to it. Concentrate on one thing at a time -prioritise IOT, worry about engineering later.
As a JEngO you are the link and the buffer between the techies and everyone else, SEngO, Pilots, Navs and adminers. Remember the JEngO's office is a place for having a word with Aircrew as well as lineys. If they are being out of order in the Line Office invite them into the office for a chat. Better that they vent on you in private than on the Sgt in front of the SACs. If there is a problem you can then sort it out and not embarrass anyone.
Happy to download my (recent!) experience (RN and RAF) by PM rather than bore this thread for longer.
As a retired Engineering Officer - well done. All the above is good advice - concentrate on IOT first - try to do it once not twice.
I'd just like to point out that you are going to be an "Engineering Officer". A JEngO is (usually) specifically the junior engineer in charge of aircraft at first line - I only did one such job out of seven tours in the RAF. There is every chance you will do other jobs like second line aircraft (if you're lucky) or OC GEF at a non-flying station (less lucky). But whatever you do it will only last for a couple of years or so before you move on, so give it your best regardless.
I'd just like to point out that you are going to be an "Engineering Officer". A JEngO is (usually) specifically the junior engineer in charge of aircraft at first line - I only did one such job out of seven tours in the RAF. There is every chance you will do other jobs like second line aircraft (if you're lucky) or OC GEF at a non-flying station (less lucky). But whatever you do it will only last for a couple of years or so before you move on, so give it your best regardless.
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Well done and best of luck with IOT. I can only re-iterate the positive comments made by others. BTW are you intending to be an AS or CE Engineer? I only ask since the new Eng Off Foundation Trg Course (which has been running since 31 Jul 06) is effectively 2 separate courses, one for AS and the other for CE (which they call "the dark side" here for some reason).
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Well done Nick
Mate congrats on getting in. Once you come out as a JENGO be ready to go into an OC GD slot covering the posts Admin seem unable to, its crap I know but loads of Junior Eng types are in those roles at the moment and there seems no way out!! But use it to learn about the RAF and get PiS**d often as you can in the Mess, after all no SENGO will be doing your report so your bullet proof!!
Once there liase with supply as love them or hate them you will not get your bits unless you work as a team. Most importantly remember you are there as a Man Manager and 80% of your work will be looking after your men. Fail them and they will fail you and in the long run you will be the one that suffers, give them loyalty and it will be returned. Additionally remember your paid more and live in the Mess for a reason, your not their mate so dont try and be one, be a great boss. As for our aircrew brethren, try and keep them smiling and be firm with them when they treat your boys badly, not saying it happens loads but like all walks of life, of after a bad day they sometimes lash out and its often the poor old SAC waving them in that gets it!! Mostly, enjoy, go on exped, get involved in the mess... Its a giggle dude..
Once there liase with supply as love them or hate them you will not get your bits unless you work as a team. Most importantly remember you are there as a Man Manager and 80% of your work will be looking after your men. Fail them and they will fail you and in the long run you will be the one that suffers, give them loyalty and it will be returned. Additionally remember your paid more and live in the Mess for a reason, your not their mate so dont try and be one, be a great boss. As for our aircrew brethren, try and keep them smiling and be firm with them when they treat your boys badly, not saying it happens loads but like all walks of life, of after a bad day they sometimes lash out and its often the poor old SAC waving them in that gets it!! Mostly, enjoy, go on exped, get involved in the mess... Its a giggle dude..
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Hi Nick
Well done.
Having done a tour in a CO some years ago I was always in the
for speaking the truth.
My advice would be to follow that of others concentrate on getting through IOT and don't forget to wear the Plastic Smile
My daughter did and she is now a Sqwabling Leader scribley
Well done.
Having done a tour in a CO some years ago I was always in the
for speaking the truth.My advice would be to follow that of others concentrate on getting through IOT and don't forget to wear the Plastic Smile
My daughter did and she is now a Sqwabling Leader scribley
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You will be commisioned as a GD RAF Officer - primary
You will then be a JEngO - secondary
Your 1st posting could be Oi/c bicycle store Little Snoring - unlikely
Your immediate objective is to graduate - priority
If you always remember the following, "Task needs, Team needs, Individual needs - vital, essential, desirable" - you should be ok for the whole of your career
Best of luck - and enjoy!
Regards B15
You will then be a JEngO - secondary
Your 1st posting could be Oi/c bicycle store Little Snoring - unlikely
Your immediate objective is to graduate - priority
If you always remember the following, "Task needs, Team needs, Individual needs - vital, essential, desirable" - you should be ok for the whole of your career
Best of luck - and enjoy!
Regards B15
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Good advice B15...and to add a bit,
Remember the 3 strands to effective leadership are:
1. Lead by example
2. Lead by encouragement
3. Last and definitely least to be used, lead by admonition (bollockings are a turn-off and more attention to the above 2 reduces them vastly)
Remember the 3 strands to effective leadership are:
1. Lead by example
2. Lead by encouragement
3. Last and definitely least to be used, lead by admonition (bollockings are a turn-off and more attention to the above 2 reduces them vastly)
Congratulations! Try to get some duplicate uniform from any source, such as someone already in, or silvermans or quartermaster surplus stores - both available on the internet. you can then have a wardrobe constantly set up and ready for short or no notice inspections; you can live day to day from a kit bag if you have to! Empty shoe boxes are very useful for storing items in under your sink or in the bottom of the wardrobe and always look tidy. A strong smelling furniture polish ensures that you always have a room that smells'bulled'. take an Iron and ironing board - the queue for both is always long and you can never get one when you need it. Share out domestic tasks between the flight ie if someone is good at bulling shoes swap a pair of shoes with shirts to iron etc. Look at the advice given by the others in this thread and take a spare sense of hunour for the times when your first one runs out. Also look out for the first person to state "how would the flight commander like it if we went to inspect his home!" Enjoy the experience - it is more than worth it on the other side of graduation, whatever your branch!
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[quote=cynicalint;2919485]Congratulations! Try to get some duplicate uniform from any source, such as someone already in, or silvermans or quartermaster surplus stores - both available on the internet. you can then have a wardrobe constantly set up and ready for short or no notice inspections; you can live day to day from a kit bag if you have to!quote]
Why didn't I think of that! Brilliant idea! Pity it's 30 years too late
Sidevalve was trying to sell his No 1 and as far as I know still has it. Try PM him and see if there's a size match.
Why didn't I think of that! Brilliant idea! Pity it's 30 years too late
Sidevalve was trying to sell his No 1 and as far as I know still has it. Try PM him and see if there's a size match.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
and a sleeping bag so you don't disturb the bedding.
Your car will be an asset as well as the DS do not inspect that.
Your car will be an asset as well as the DS do not inspect that.
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Hmmmm - theres some advice (probably from a chief!!)
that could get you in trouble! He's admitting there that 1 time in 20 its not wise to trust them - so make sure you monitor those occasions!
Also, don't rely on internet forums for significant advice!
All this guff about not being not being responsible, well yes you are. Many troops may not understand the role of the JEngO/SEngO but that doesn't matter really. They have their role but You ARE responsible for EVERYTHING on your shift. The engineering and the personnel.
that could get you in trouble! He's admitting there that 1 time in 20 its not wise to trust them - so make sure you monitor those occasions!
Also, don't rely on internet forums for significant advice!
All this guff about not being not being responsible, well yes you are. Many troops may not understand the role of the JEngO/SEngO but that doesn't matter really. They have their role but You ARE responsible for EVERYTHING on your shift. The engineering and the personnel.
I take it you dont trust Chiefs!!!!! - But we are the salt of the earth.
And 1 time in 20 not to trust them is pretty good odds. So who (in the line of work) do you trust more??? - Your Boss?????
Oh! and by the way how many JEngos do you know that have been sacked for a cock up on their shift?
So when you ask "where is SAC Bloggs" and the chief replies "I sent him to get some milk" do you think:
a. The chief is lying and SAC Bloggs has slept in, I will sort him out.
b. The chief is lying, but he will sort SAC Bloggs out
or
C. The chief is telling the truth.
The chief may not be telling you the truth, but that is no reason not to trust him (or her).
But wait at least 15mins before going to get a coffee....
a. The chief is lying and SAC Bloggs has slept in, I will sort him out.
b. The chief is lying, but he will sort SAC Bloggs out
or
C. The chief is telling the truth.
The chief may not be telling you the truth, but that is no reason not to trust him (or her).
But wait at least 15mins before going to get a coffee....
Aeronut
I take it you dont trust Chiefs!!!!! - But we are the salt of the earth.
And 1 time in 20 not to trust them is pretty good odds. So who (in the line of work) do you trust more??? - Your Boss?????
Oh! and by the way how many JEngos do you know that have been sacked for a cock up on their shift?
I take it you dont trust Chiefs!!!!! - But we are the salt of the earth.
And 1 time in 20 not to trust them is pretty good odds. So who (in the line of work) do you trust more??? - Your Boss?????
Oh! and by the way how many JEngos do you know that have been sacked for a cock up on their shift?
I will admit to being suspicious of someone that says "trust me" as in ZH785's comment.
It was more a comment on the frequency of a 95% chance being 1 in 20. NOT very good odds in my book given the daily number of decisions.
I think I trust my boss and chiefs equally, both doing their job.
JENGOs I have known to be sacked for a cock up on their shift = 3.
Ironic that you ask that, whilst on this theme, since on 2 occasions they came a cropper because they overly trusted a certain rank who had led them up the garden path. I'll let you guess which rank.
In one of those cases the JEngO alone took the flak on behalf of the one that cocked up and was moved on which had significant career impact. In another case the JEngO was dragged down along with guilty party and in the third case the JEngO brought it on himself, which also cost him dearly.
I will agree with you that chiefs are the salt of the earth, but they are also under pressure and reliant on those under, above and all around them in an RAF that is creaking at the very seams. I mean not to insinuate anything untoward about any rank or trade, but this is a thread started by someone seeking advice and I object to any carte blanche "trust me - I'm a Chief" approach.
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Aeronut - Thanks for reply. I will answer one at a time.
I agree - trust (and respect) is earned both ways.
Again I agree - any one who says "trust me" is normally a car salesman. (or a chief)
So not good odds in your book. But at least you trust your Boss and Chiefs equally. Gets my vote.
Spooky, I have also know 3 JENGOS sacked. 1st got caught shagging another wife - he is now a Wing Cdr, 2nd for drink driving - he is now a Sqn Ldr and a third who got booted off the Sqn in the gulf after losing his reds and greens; he is now also a Sqn Ldr. Sorry but I dont know any that were sacked for a Techie of any rank screwing up. And "TRUST ME" I have seen some major cock ups.
I think we are in agreement that JEngos/Sengos/Chiefs and all SNCOs are important cogs in the wheel. But the wheel is turning and a few cogs seem to be missing!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree - trust (and respect) is earned both ways.
Again I agree - any one who says "trust me" is normally a car salesman. (or a chief)
So not good odds in your book. But at least you trust your Boss and Chiefs equally. Gets my vote.
Spooky, I have also know 3 JENGOS sacked. 1st got caught shagging another wife - he is now a Wing Cdr, 2nd for drink driving - he is now a Sqn Ldr and a third who got booted off the Sqn in the gulf after losing his reds and greens; he is now also a Sqn Ldr. Sorry but I dont know any that were sacked for a Techie of any rank screwing up. And "TRUST ME" I have seen some major cock ups.
I think we are in agreement that JEngos/Sengos/Chiefs and all SNCOs are important cogs in the wheel. But the wheel is turning and a few cogs seem to be missing!!!!!!!!!!!
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ZH875 - Therein lies the mark of the man. Give the Chief the latitude his rank/experience attracts, and let Bloggs live or die by his Chief. Spot on. Bravo.
Of course if Bloggs still fails to appear (and likewise the milk) in 15 mins, then Bloggs deserves to be f***ed by the Chief. But don't try to f*** the Chief until it is solid that he maliciously lied. If he did, don't kowtow to his xxxx years of service. Make sure of your facts, but take him up on it.
It's just a game. The rules are not written, it takes a while to learn them, but once learned, a) they work b) they will see you to the grave and sadly c) they get upset once in a while by the will of the government of the day, irrespective of the forces' ethos. Much like the Constitution really.
Congratulations upon your enlistment/hopeful commissioning.
Of course if Bloggs still fails to appear (and likewise the milk) in 15 mins, then Bloggs deserves to be f***ed by the Chief. But don't try to f*** the Chief until it is solid that he maliciously lied. If he did, don't kowtow to his xxxx years of service. Make sure of your facts, but take him up on it.
It's just a game. The rules are not written, it takes a while to learn them, but once learned, a) they work b) they will see you to the grave and sadly c) they get upset once in a while by the will of the government of the day, irrespective of the forces' ethos. Much like the Constitution really.
Congratulations upon your enlistment/hopeful commissioning.
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Wow! Quite a response, I wasn't expecting this much in return so a big thank you to you all. All points noted and shall be duly acted upon. I really want to put evreything into this, as I said before I've endured a wealth of cr*ppy , dull jobs so I really want to make a go of this. Again thanks for your advice, it really is invaluable!
On a tangent and looking way ahead, what are the opportunities for recreational aviation in the RAF? I've been flying gliders for the past two years and I would like to continue (once IOT is out of the way of course). On top of this I want get my PPL sorted too. Are there avenues for learning to fly as a hobby within the Royal Air Force and how/where do I do it if I can? More questions I know but I really can't think of a better place to come to. Creep. Going to the AFCO usually results in getting a disinterested civvy who doesn't have a clue. Computer says no. I kid you not!
Cheers chaps!
Nick.
On a tangent and looking way ahead, what are the opportunities for recreational aviation in the RAF? I've been flying gliders for the past two years and I would like to continue (once IOT is out of the way of course). On top of this I want get my PPL sorted too. Are there avenues for learning to fly as a hobby within the Royal Air Force and how/where do I do it if I can? More questions I know but I really can't think of a better place to come to. Creep. Going to the AFCO usually results in getting a disinterested civvy who doesn't have a clue. Computer says no. I kid you not!
Cheers chaps!
Nick.
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Oh well you will be right at home as a JENGO then. Joke!!!!!
As for learning to fly you should check here RAFCA
http://www.procommercesolutions.co.uk/raffca/homepage/
Good Luck.
As for learning to fly you should check here RAFCA
http://www.procommercesolutions.co.uk/raffca/homepage/
Good Luck.
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Using your car as your main wardrobe is a top tip, keeping your room with the basic spartan-like er, basics.
Also, take your own ironing board and iron (keep them in your car). The block ones are crap and there's always a queue. Take a set of matching coat hangars for the shirts that once ironed and hung up are not touched again for the next six weeks. Once properly sorted, the bed and wardrobe are pieces of modern art - not to be disturbed! Some guys slept on the floor on a rollmat/sleeping bag which was stowed in the car prior to inspection.
Take a chinagraph pencil and plastic paper - I've seen many guys destroying bits of paper with a pencil in the pouring rain as they try to write down their instructions during 'their lead' (that's when you are given command of your little group to lead them on a task involving lashing pine poles together and transporting a large objct over shark-infested custard).
Don't clear dust at 0100. It will only settle overnight and you have to do it again just before inspection.
It is anal and you will question the pointlessness of some of it. Keep smiling and remember it's only for a few weeks. Don't be jack and willingness to help others wins many brownie points. If you've finished your room and your mate down the corridor has a bed looking like an elephant's nest, get down there and help him sort it out.
Have a great time. The sense of being in it together beats most jobs in civvy street.
Also, take your own ironing board and iron (keep them in your car). The block ones are crap and there's always a queue. Take a set of matching coat hangars for the shirts that once ironed and hung up are not touched again for the next six weeks. Once properly sorted, the bed and wardrobe are pieces of modern art - not to be disturbed! Some guys slept on the floor on a rollmat/sleeping bag which was stowed in the car prior to inspection.
Take a chinagraph pencil and plastic paper - I've seen many guys destroying bits of paper with a pencil in the pouring rain as they try to write down their instructions during 'their lead' (that's when you are given command of your little group to lead them on a task involving lashing pine poles together and transporting a large objct over shark-infested custard).
Don't clear dust at 0100. It will only settle overnight and you have to do it again just before inspection.
It is anal and you will question the pointlessness of some of it. Keep smiling and remember it's only for a few weeks. Don't be jack and willingness to help others wins many brownie points. If you've finished your room and your mate down the corridor has a bed looking like an elephant's nest, get down there and help him sort it out.
Have a great time. The sense of being in it together beats most jobs in civvy street.