Pontius Navigator

The minimum education requirements are indeed all the academic requirements that you need. Clearly the better the grades the better they read.

Then it is you. You would be very young; probably 2-3 years younger than the majority and a significant number of years younger than some. What you will lack therefore is maturity. With maturity will come an ability to understand other people and possibly become a leader.

Work on your maturity but not at the expense of not enjoying your youth while you have it. What you should be looking to do is join an organisation or two - football club, ATC, Scouts or whatever you like or is available. Then try and stand out, seek positions of responsibility - even at a very low level such as getting a group of friends together for some activity such as a skiing holiday.

Good luck.

Mova, you missed an earlier wanabee post

05c4r

Thanks for all your posts and sorry about the grammer, i was in a hurry and didnt have much time. So the GCSE's will give me a fair chance but is physics important at A level? Ino that it is a rather relevant subject to the field that i am interested in but I would rather not chose it, however if i have to then i will do it and i will work hard for a good grade. Also i have read about the GAPAN tests at RAF Cranwell before and i will do them if they will raise my chances but when should i do them? Is there a minimum age?

Once again thank you for your help.

Lukesdad

O5c4R

At 15 and with the prospect of good GCSE grades you have made a good start. Whilst it is true that you will need A levels to a high standard, the RAF also consider your wider life experiences when applying for selection.

Membership of your local Air Cadets shows your interest in the RAF as an organisation. Activities which require you to work as part of a team will also impress.

When considering Pilot as a career you need to first consider if your health and your aptitude are of a high enough standard for military flying. (Army and Navy flying have similar standards) Health questions can be answered by speaking to your local RAF recruiting office, and aptitude can be tested by an organisation called 'GAPAN' they undertake private testing of pilot aptitude at RAF Cranwell, and offer an unbiased view of your abilities.

Duncan D'Sorderlee

Make sure that you take advantage of all that is available to you in school and your community (that doesn't mean robbing old ladies!). You don't have to be a member of the ATC but those who interview when you apply to join the RAF will want to know what you do in your spare time (being on PPRuNe will probably not help\too much!)

Good luck.

Duncs

PPL-Trainee

Hello there! I thought It might be a better idea that I hijack this thread instead of creating a new one as my question is very similar to the question by "05c4r."

I'm in the same sort of boat as he is, but instead I'm going to try and phrase it slightly differently.


I'm only a year older than "05c4r", in ATC, in Rugby teams, organising events at school, (and even an amateur film director!) etc etc. My grades are predicted to be similar to his, instead I've actually bothered to give up my own lunch time and take long course R.E and hopefully walk away with 10 GCSE's. But that's enough of my breif life story!


Anyway, the question:


So even though you meet the requirement, you can still have a chance of not being selected because your grades are not as sparkly as anothers? I get that feeling that it doesn't really matter what grades you have as long as it is above the requirement?


Surely there must be thousands of applicants a year, and if every single one of them walked into the recruitment office with the requirement, how do they divide the flyers from the plummeters?


And the last question, how lenient is the RAF? Has it been known that they make compromises depending on the individual's skills/medical where possible?


Sorry, a bit more than one question!


Thanks in advance for your help!

PPL-Trainee

Duncan D'Sorderlee

PPL-Trainee,

Unfortunately for you, it's a buyers market. Consequently, you have to be better that the other guy if you want to get a job. That may mean better academics, but not necessarily - lots of things are taken into account, mostly your leadership potential!

Good luck

Duncs

Pontius Navigator

Everything else being equal, the grades do not count. What the minimums do is get you through the door. Supposing two of you present, one with the minimum acceptable and the other with a mass of A*s - clearly you differ.

If you both have near identical attributes, skills and potential, together with other extra curicular features, then the higher grades may be used as an arbiter.

First, they do not all meet the requirement so that is the first sift. There is then a sift at the AFCO so a not insignificant number are washed out at that point - nationality may be an issue.

By flyers I presume you mean ones that will pass as opposed to aircrew. The successful candidate from AFCO will undergo selection at OASC. Some will be of such calibre that they are given an immediate offer - not the same day but when they hear from the RAF. Others will be rejected and others will be advised to apply again in a year or so having taken on board any advice given. That leaves the majority who, while not outstanding, nevertheless meet all the requirements. They will get a letter telling them that they are under consideration. Week on week this number will swell. Finally, before the next IOT entry the best of the rest will get offers. Some will have dropped out at this stage as they will have taken other employment. As for any not picked up at this point - they may get an offer for a later course. Clearly more will have started other careers.

I think you have the answer in your earlier statement <<Surely there must be thousands of applicants a year>>. The answer is not very. The whole thing is based on risk. The medical issue has been thrashed in other threads. If you have any medical history, against someone who has none, you must have a greater risk of occurence of problems later on. As one of the OASC board said, what may seem a trifling inconvenience driving a car could get you killed under high-g and low oxygen levels.

Don't worry. If your CV is confirmed at interview and during the exercises, and your are 100% fit, then you will be in with a good chance. If you have only the minimum educational requirements then that gets you through the door and everything else is what matters.

GlosMikeP

I think that's a fairly comprehensive set of good advice from PN. It's a mix of grades, aptitude, personality (strong on that), health and leadership potential.

Good luck!

TurbineTooHot

05c4r

Just a small piece of advice that I never got, but learned later.

When chosing A-levels and a subsequent degree, consider subjects that you find fasinating and get on well with.

Physics is a good choice; at A-level it is mostly basic engineering rather than the applied maths of the degree. A good working knowledge of mechanical maths (vectors etc) tends to be useful.

I stress working knowledge as you shouldn't feel compelled down these roads if you feel better placed doing other subjects. You will certainly be taught the aerodymanic principles that you need to know if and when you hit groundschool. Background knowledge is helps a little but is not essential. You seem fairly motivated so I assume you could read up on the subjects rather than tackle the full A-level.

I was suckered into a degree that I thought would be very pertinent to flying. It turned out a: Not to be and b: Not for me at all. Thankfully the RAF looked kindly on me and adopted me anyway. I am now nearing the end of the FJ pipeline. Thusly, you can make the wrong choices occasionally and be forgiven.

I guess the moral to all of this is do something you love and you've got a better chance at success.

Also consider university or a gap-type year before starting. Tis not for everyone, but there are some who really could have done with something in the way of life experience between leaving school and home and joining up.

Good luck anyway.

TTH

Taudy

Hello all,

I've just passed OASC to become a pilot (pending part 2 medical), starting IOT in Jan. Throughout the selection process I applied for the 12 year SSC, but my offer was for a Permanent Commission.

I called OASC to clarify who replied that if one wants to be a pilot these days then the only option is for a permanent commission - 18 years service or to age 40. Given the retention issues in the RAF, and not knowing where my life may be in 12 years time, I must admit to being rather wary of selling my soul for a full career, despite having wanted this for as long as I can remember. Especially when I also have an offer to start Sandhurst where I'd hope to go into the AAC, for a 6 year commission. Can anyone in the know confirm the abolishment of SSCs? Seems a rash move to me when they seem desperate to recruit more people (at least, they must be if I got in! )

Moreover, why was my request for an SSC accepted the whole way through the selection process (and my reasons quizzed during the interview for only wanting 12 years instead of 18)? Finally, the offer of a permanent commission was slipped, less than obviously, into a one-and-a-half page letter... All seems very odd to me, and less than inspiring...

Many thanks in advance, and my sincere apologies if this all seems trivial!

WPH

Taudy,

I'm an Engineer not a Pilot but I wanted a SSC (6 years) because, like you, I didn't want to commit to 38. I was offered a PC and had to fight to get a SSC, a decision that I lived to regret! Since then I've tried to change to a PC and it has been very difficult and very competitive, many of my peers on SSCs have now left. I don't know what the return of service is for aircrew but I would suggest that if in 12 years time you want to leave, you will not have to wait long and it'll probably be free - but I'd check that one out! If, like me, you find yourself stuck on a SSC and want to stay in, you'll kick yourself. I took a SSC on the understanding it was just a paperwork exercise to transfer to a PC - well 7 years ago it was!

It's not trivial, it's a difficult decision and you're right to ask on this forum but expect some banter - get used to it!

Hope that helps and good luck.

WPH

GlosMikeP

Don't understand you hesitating. It's a great offer. If it doesn't grab you like that straight away, give up the place to someone who really does want it and go to Sandhurst. Be happy.

Mmmmnice

The whole SSC, PC, FTRS etc thing is all a matter of bums-on-seats/retention. The availability of the various contracts all depends on what the crystal ball watchers say about the future, and how manning levels may change. Unfortunately things may change during an individuals application process and the final offer will be a function of the current thinking - and the cynic in me says don't believe anything that is not written down - and even then read the small print very carefully! Good luck

TMJ

I'm an engineer on the other side of the SSC/PC divide - I too originally applied for a SSC for the whole "bloody hell, 16 years is a long time" and was offered one; however, when back at Cranwell for a UAS/bursary induction cse I was asked whether I wanted a PC before I signed on the line. At that stage I thought, "What the hell," and went for it. Best decision I ever made; I'd have been out in May otherwise as precious few EngOs have got extensions recently and the difference of approach I had with a boss at my last post made my OJARs painful reading for a PC board. A lot of my mates from trg are out or on the way, with a number of them heading across to the Army, poor things...

ORAC

Precious few get the chance to fly for the RAF, donīt quibble over the choice theyīve given you. You may fail at Cranwell, you may fail during training, you may decide to PVR, you may drop dead. But to fail to take the chance when offered and, in 10-20 years time, dream of what might have been.

Thereīs nothing more bitter than lost chances and what might have beens, grab it with both hands and donīt let go till they rip it away from you.......

Taudy

Chaps,

Many thanks to all - on the whole some really useful replies which I greatly appreciate. Expected the banter, but that just serves as a reality check. It is a bloody good opportunity, and I know it. The extra 6 years just caught me by surprise, that's all.

I'm going to run with it, and see where the merry train takes me. As was pointed out, I might fail at any stage and find myself on out on my ear but if I don't go with it whilst I've got the chance, I'll never know.

P.S. shemy, don't get too hung up on grades, sports, etc. Just keep your head down at school, take every opportunity you get for trying something new and just do whatever you enjoy doing. There's no right answer it seems. For my part, I got a 1st at uni and play a lot of sport, but the next guy might do things very differently and still get in, who knows? I applied at the end of August, and got my offer at the end of October. Good luck!

DownloadDog

It's simple, take the PC terms and conditions.

Pass IOT (Initial Orifice Training); EFT (Elelmentary Flying Training); BFJT+AFT, DHFS or ME Training; and pass an OCU.

You will then have to do 6 years productive service. After which you can leave the RAF by submitting an application for PVR (Premature Voluntary Release).

Provided you have done 6 years productive service you will be able to leave. It will take about 9-10 years to get to that point, I know because I'm currently doing it!

Good luck.

6foottanker

Don't forget that the RAF training system is still the best in the world. And as luck would have it, it puts you in good stead for doing your ATPL exams, PVRing and getting a good job with a reputable airline, who value the training and experience you will have had in the RAF. Just ask most of the multi boys, most of whom are considering their positions at the moment....

(CAS, are you reading this??)

saudipc-9

Having just turned forty myself, I can tell you that the years will go by in a snap. You sound young and at your age I thought that being forty seemed so far away...well it came up on me when I wasn't looking.
My advice is don't worry about the commitment, you want to fly jets don't you!! You also get paid a good wage to drink beer and chase nasty girls when you are not flying. Don't be a pussy. After 18 years I'm still enjoying myself so get on with it!! Oh Yaaaa!!

Mr Teatime

Go for it. I've just done 16 yrs, liked it so much I've signed on for another dose. Most of the whingers on these sites have already left. Get in, fly, enjoy.