RobinXe

With regards to GlosMikeP's point, I agree wholeheartedly. At the end of the interview phase, they ask you to confirm your choices, in order of preference. I had put down several, including WSO and Air Traffic, as well as pilot at the top, on advice from the AFCO. In the intervening period I had given it careful thought and decided that if I couldn't fly, then I didn't want to be forced to be around all the action for the remainder of my career. Thus, when asked to confirm my choices, I said I wanted pilot, nothing else. They seemed slightly taken aback at this, but I confirmed that it was my considered intention, and in the end, thats what I got!

I can also endorse the recommendation of The Econoist's online service. It does require a paid subscription, but its well worth it! The advice I was given was to prepare half a dozen stories in each of four categories, local and national for past months and past years. The Economist subscription allows you to track news stories all the way to their roots, so makes reseach for this a doddle. Remember, they want your opinions on the matters you are discussing, that you have formed yourself, and are able to defend with rational and balanced argument.

Lukesdad

All good info so far, my advice is to get in touch with 'GAPAN', they can arrange a private aptitude test at Cranwell to see if you can achieve the sort of scores the RAF are looking for. It used to be around £100, well worth it.

As far as OASC is concerned, it is 4 days long and it gets fairly quiet after day 2 when a lot get sent home.

Olly O'Leg

And as an add-on to Robin's last post, when considering the 6 news topics, try and find something slightly obscure, as well as something that is all over the news. At the time I went through OASC, there were some troubles in Cyprus that weren't exactly headline news - I mentioned that and that's where we went. The interviewers will have heard "Iraq/Afghanistan" for the previous 10 bods they've interviewed but if you come up with something slightly different, that may be a way to steer the interview.

Word of warning: Still know you're stuff on all of the subjects!!!

Best of luck

GlosMikeP

Good for you! I was conned twice through not knowing how the cogs meshed.

For my RAF scholarship I was told I was too tall for aircrew (believable being well over 6ft) but would make a fine engineer. So I accepted engineer. Shortly before university I was called back to OASC pending award of a Cadetship, and after only a short session was told I'd make a marvelous navigator but only an average pilot.

It was all tosh. What it came down to was on the first time there the pilot and nav lists were full, or close to it, and the engineer list well short. On the second pass, the engineer list was doing fine, the pilot list was doing OK but had space but the nav list was almost empty.

Stick to your guns chum. If you want pilot and pilot only, don't move from that position. But do, if you are prepared to compromise - for whatever reason: I could never say my career as a navigator was unacceptable, uninteresting or not satisfying. But I would have liked a shot at pilot and should have had one.

alex_holbrook

First of all guys, sincere apologies if this has already been covered, but I have googled this for what seems an eternity and have found no answer. So, I was wondering if sitting the GAPAN aptitude tests counts towards the two tries at the tests (I've already had one for the RN when I was 17). I ask this because I'm seriously considering doing them, but don't particularly want to fluff up my chances of becoming a military pilot by using up all my tries.
Cheers guys,
Al

FCWhippingBoy

Alex,

I've not really much idea what the GAPAN tests are, but a quick google tells me that they are the "Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators" tests, and are held at Cranwell (someone jump in and tell me if I'm wrong!)

If this is the case, when I took the Airmen Aircrew tests at OASC in 2002, I found that they also quoted my results from my 6th form scholarship tests (Pilot/Nav) from the early 90s.

When I queried this, they told me that the results were valid for 10 years, effectively meaning that if I had failed them on the subsequent attempt, the previous results would have stood (again someone correct me if I've been given duff gen!)

I'm not too sure about how many attempts at the tests you are allowed in what time frame, but something about 2 attempts rings a bell with me. The best advice I could offer is ask the AFCO or OASC themselves on the current policy.

Hope that is of some help, and apologies if I'm completely off the mark! Good luck whatever happens!

scroggs

Either talk to OASC or to GAPAN for the authoritative answer, but as their aptitude tests are something you pay for privately, I doubt that they count against your RAF/RN quota.

Professor Plum

As the GAPAN tests are the RAF pilot aptitude tests, I'm almost certain that they do count towards one of your two attempts.

Check with OASC or GAPAN though (as previously mentioned).

Lukesdad

Re the query regarding the private GAPAN aptitude tests counting as one of your RAF attempts. Yes, is the answer. Your name and address are kept on record and if you were to subsequently take the test with the RAF your score would be adjusted accordingly.

You should remember that the pilot aptitude test is only one of several different ones that you will take on your OASC visit, you will be tired and stressed rather than on a private GAPAN visit where you will be relaxed and rested. Having said that, GAPAN staff are mostly ex-RAF and a visit to Cranwell to take the test with them will give you a reliable indication as to your chances of becoming a military pliot.

Trust me, only the very best get in.

Reversed Engineer

Well hello!

Please allow me to introduce m'self, I'm Nick, I'm 29 and after ten years combination of sh*t jobs and uni I've gone and joined the RAF! (Insert "no change there then" here, RN types ).
Firstly a wee thanks to those of you who have put up info for others regarding OASC and officer selection in general, I've been watching from afar and it has been very useful. Even the bits that did not exactly make for easy reading when you know your career hangs on it! AFCO's are all very well but brute honesty is not their forte. I appreciate yours.

I'm old and blind so pilot was never going to happen, (although I'm pleased to say I did get all the aptitudes) so I'm being taken on to be a JEngo and starting Cranditz on the 7th of Jan. Cutting to the chase I have two questions for you:

1) Any tips for IOT? I've heard all that the AFCO has to say, now I want it from the guys that have been through it but aren't trying to sell careers.

2) I'm going to be responsible for fixing your aircraft. What do you want out of me and what are the shortcomings you want rid of from the JEngos you deal with? Feel free to make a list! Actually, do if you have to but just explain what you say if it's not obvious to a non (as yet) RAF person.

Before the RN folks lay into me I was in the RNR (Really Not Required) for five years so I am open to ribbing from all directions. Tupperware task force if you're interested (probably not).

Look forward to hearing from you!

Take care,

Nick.

reddeathdrinker

Watch out for your guys and gals, and stand up for them if need be.

Too many junior officers only out for themselves these days......

RileyDove

Nick - congratulations on getting in ! Not sure if the CT's will ever trust you to actually fix aircraft though! You might get involved in ticking some boxes and things like that ! Never really understood what a Jengo really did when we had a WO and Flt SGT who seemed to have been there and done it whilst
the Jengo was in nursery!

GlosMikeP

Get as fit as you can.

It will have changed over the years of course but I'll bet the North airfield is still used as a major running course on IOT (lots of it!). We used to run from the hut on the edge of the woods near the firing range, thorugh the woods and over the horse jumps, around the woods and field back to the hut in 15 minutes (2.5 miles or so). And that was in combat kit with boots.

You can't be too fit. If you are fit, life's a breeze and in fact damned good fun!

ZH875

Good luck with your career, but remember that as a JEngO, you most certainly are NOT That's what the techies do.

You are responsible for ensuring that it is done in a safe and timely manner and in accordance with all the relevant JAPs etc.

As a long sufferer of some of the best and worst JEngOs around, my advice would be:

1. Make sure you get to know the people you command.
2. Always trust the Chiefs (for about 95% of the time)
3. If you ask "what is wrong", be prepared to listen to the answer.
4. Don't be afraid of visiting the techies at the coal face, see the problems first hand. Maybe even offer to help out and see how each task is done, and how long it takes, and why. This will help you estimate aircraft 'down time'.
5. If in doubt ASK, there are silly questions, and people may laugh, but you will get the answer you want, and people do respect those that ask, but if you waffle and bluster your way along, respect is quickly lost.
6. Act as a buffer between SEngo and the troops (Both ways).
7. Enjoy.

Two's in

You're actually going to be responsible for the people who fix the aircraft, not doing the job itself. May sound like semantics a this point, but save all of these replies, read them in 5 years time and say "Ooooh yesssss....., now I understand". Very well done on qualifying. My advice (it's free of course), be fiercely loyal to your subordinates, even if you don't fully understand why, but always try to see the big picture ie. never forget you all work for the big cheese somewhere. Your age and maturity are plus scores for seeing the arguments from the other side of the table. Your WO/SNCO's will run it for you, but as an Officer you are always responsible, no matter who it is who screws up, so always know what's going on in your area of responsibility.

Above all else - have fun. There are some fantastic facilities and perks available, so go off and enjoy them, you will get plenty of opportunity to donate your pound of flesh for Her Majesty, so just regard it as an advance on your account.

Safeware

To add to the 2 excellent preceding posts, and having been there, I'd say remember that there is nothing really *special* that sets you apart from the people you will be responsible for. Many will be as well, if not better qualified than you and those that aren't probably could be. They have merely chosen a different career path, so treat them as you would want to be treated yourself.

And congrats, it'll be hard fun.

sw

Pontius Navigator

No change there then. Still see pine poles moving round the airfield on their own <g>. Forget weekends. As well as get fit, expect to be able to show determination and grit and get fitter. No marks for effort if everything is effortless.

JEngOs can engineer. Not oilly rag stuff day in day out but inspired knowledge. One day I was doing a compass swing on a very old lady and the thing just would not swing. While I knew the rules I didn't know the tricks. Out comes a JEngO from the shed, out of interest or curiousity, to find how I was getting on. "Tried a Sperry swing?" He asked. "Wots one on them?"

Worked a treat. Had he not arrived it is quite likely the Inst Fitters would have spent hours trying the sam eas I had.

Mr C Hinecap

Do not worry about being an Engineering Officer yet. Really. Concentrate on getting yourself through IOT. Don't think past there. Put everything into getting through. I was 23 when I started IOT so was older than a few, but younger than a few - and the ratio of older has increased. Much of it isn't difficult to learn - but the quantity is high - especially to a non-military chap. Work on endurance fitness - you're going for some fairly long runs and you'll be tired before you start them from bulling the night before. It is an artificial environment but it has to be - it is training. Jump through their hoops and get to the other side - then worry about your Branch.
Good luck - best time of the year to start - weather is awful but gets better throughout your course.

Aeronut

Hmmmm - theres some advice (probably from a chief!!)
that could get you in trouble! He's admitting there that 1 time in 20 its not wise to trust them - so make sure you monitor those occasions!

Also, don't rely on internet forums for significant advice!

All this guff about not being not being responsible, well yes you are. Many troops may not understand the role of the JEngO/SEngO but that doesn't matter really. They have their role but You ARE responsible for EVERYTHING on your shift. The engineering and the personnel.

Pontius Navigator

At IOT remember their aim is to pass you all out not to chop you. You are in a team and, although leadership is important, team work is the most important.