Forces mail to the 'stan

[Wader2]

Latest secret despatch

here is an extract from the latest secret despatch from the 'stan. So far our cryptanalysts have failed to crack the code despite it being seemingly in plain language:

The biscuits are proving incredibly popular, with the orange and lemon ones being the out and out favourite. The term biscuit is throwing the Americans. A biscuit to them is a scone and these are cookie. It also turns out that bon bons are a British phenomemon and the New Zealanders think that pink powder coated fruit toffees are just plain weird

[moosemaster]

Barnstormer, where did you read that gem?

Originally Posted by barnstormer

Whether it will be done is a totally different manner, which was re enforced by the thread on how it took U.S. help to save a British soldiers life, as we could not do it (an equipment issue NOT personnel).

Last I read there was no specific reason given why USAF assets were used. My supposition with this particular incident based on experience of similar previous instances was/is that it is easier and quicker to re-task existing assets than to generate new ones regardless of nationality, especially given the specialised airspace in which they were operating. Given the more frequent USAF sorties into and out of theatre, it was far more likley that USAF assets would be tasked. (I'm just happy that it happened at all, regardless of who flew the fellow.)

Back on topic though, as nice as it would be to have the mail and supply system that our forces need and deserve, if you can't have option A, you take option B.

In this instance option A is more capacity, and option B is less load. Given those 2 choices, which one will this administration choose every day of the week and twice on Sundays?

[Winco]

BEagle, Spot on, agree 100% with you old man.

Mr C, yet again you confirm the thoughts of many of us, you are a horrible nasty little man(?) who has no regard for the boys and girls working their butts off in theatre.

I actually hope you are right and the public are rounding the buoy. Infact I hope they continue to round the buoy for the forseeable future. It shows that they care, which clearly you don't.

This problem is fixable almost overnight; You get that idiot 'Bumbling Bob' to get his fat ar$e out to here:

32° 9'13.34"N 110°49'32.84"W

and you get him, in his best yorkshire accent, to say "eh up lads, can we 'ave a few of these 'eavies like please, eh up?"

Unfortunately, 'Bungling Bob' needs to get some dosh from that other Bumbling Baffoon, 'Gormless Gordon', and thereby lies the problem that faces the armed forces and the whole country - NO DOSH LEFT!

And as for 'Tat and Sweets' Mr C; It's not what's in the box that really matters, it's just knowing that someone has taken the time and trouble and has shown a bit of care and thought. You should be ashamed of your comments.

Winco

[Gainesy]

A point of order, the Marxist Git was born in Coventry.

[ZuluMike]

post to ops

I do understand that it is nice to receive goody boxes in theatre (and there were a surprising number of people who got nothing throughout their tours), but I have to say I was extremely frustrated at the months it took for boxes to arrive from family while every other day the postie would come round with a sack of endless boxes of humbugs, melted chocolate, broken biscuits, socks and factor 50 etc which no one really wanted. Perhaps there is a balance to be struck? Rather than disengaging the public from spontaneous and well-intentioned support, they could be encouraged to contact local squadrons, stations, units etc and then send items that people genuinely appreciate (jaffa cakes and magazines for example) - to named individuals. I certainly knew who in my section was getting nothing and would have liked a personal box.

[Mr C Hinecap]

I am frustrated because I have a slight understanding of the supply chain and the pressures it is under.

As mail is given the highest priority, where possible, it goes by air. The only other air freight are the very highest priority equipment required by theatre - it isn't a push system either - they say what they need and how quickly they need it. The commanders on the ground set those priorities - not those in the rear with the gear. As space is so tight, you often get priority freight getting bumped off so even more urgent freight etc can be put on.

Therefore, the most urgent freight is even competing with itself for space. That isn't very good now is it? That would only be exacerbated if shoe boxes full of Haribo and Lynx doubled and even tripled the quantity of mail going to theatre. As ZM hinted at, it is always better to get proper directed family & friends mail.

If we follow the logic here, we start to hamper the provision of 'proper' mail and high priority freight to the front line if we invite every well-wisher to send sweeties and Nuts magazine. Random boxes of stuff clogs up the system rather than family parcels from the nearest and dearest. I appreciate the support of the public now, but can't we and the charities think a little more laterally and become creative?

I can't get any more AT. Nobody I know can get any more AT. Everyone in the supply chain has a responsibility to do their part to provide the best service for those who need it most. I try to imbibe such a responsibility to those around me. Some of you see me as a crude pleb - some know me as a fairly direct individual who will call a spade a f****** shovel - but I am a realist and know the efforts needed to sustain the troops in the front line.

[Wrathmonk]

Mr C

Now now - don't let reality get in the way of the outrage bus!

Slightly off thread - all these boxes to 'A Soldier/Sailor/Airman Serving in AFG'. I assume they are all searched or put through an x-ray at the BFPO? You could just imagine some Terry Taliban supporter sending out all sorts of wierd and wonderful things - like cakes made with laxative, drinks spiked with poison etc. Bit paranoid, granted, but a fairly simple way to randomly "disable" soldiers - send enough and you start to put pressure on the deployed medics. Anyone remember how quickly food poisoning spread around Ali-Al-Salem (a couple of years before TELIC IIRC)? A bit like posting on here - under cover of anonymity you can pretty much get away with anything. Now where's my tin foil hat ....?

[rolandpull]

Whilst I am sure that those lovely people at BFPO London do a great job, I believe more could be done to support the 'sort' at source. There has to be a way of identifying bona fide (named) mail against that that the Great British Public (GBP) donates to the troops at the front. My question is why aren't the two types separated, with the 'named' mail having a higher priority that that of the GBP mail? "Named" becomes directly allocated by the airlift load planners and the GBP is free streamed into BZZ/LYE and used on an ad-hoc basis to 'top off' the load.

I know that the acft are on a quick-turn down route, but surely if an under load is known at the APOE, then having GBP avail at acft side to max out capacity would be an option. Time is always available, but of course some loadies don't like to be put on the spot - do they?

[barnstormer1968]

moosemaster

Hi.
I read the little gem here on PPRuNe (and other places).
The general gist was the medical equipment needed to treat the soldier was not available in any military facility here in the UK, so USAF did the deed, inc med staff, and consultants etc, use of a US military hospital in Germany, and a private helicopter for a bit of ferrying.
I'm not sure what point you were getting at, but if you feel the RAF had a spare C17 and C130 at the time for this individual (plus the right medical equipment and staff etc), then it was odd we did not use them.


I am glad that Beags et all seem more charitable than some other posters, and do seem to understand the value of 'tat' on troops morale.
On the other hand (as an outsider now) it seems that so many serving are just resigned to coping with an overstretched and underfunded system, that they do not realise that their continued acceptence of the system allows policiticians to keep it that way.
If our forces had only been in Afganistan for a couple of months, or were due to leave soon, then the mail could be left in the state it is.......But we havn't, and we arn't

[moosemaster]

barnstormer

barnstormer, please let me explain further then, so that you might understand what I was getting at.

Disregarding the necessary "out of theatre" medical expertise, equipment or facilities that the UK was unable to provide, which is not an RAF issue.

If you need patient "X" to leave as soon as possible, and you have 2 options;
Option A: - an existing USAF task departing 1 hour,
Option B: - generate your own task that can depart in 3 hours once all the necessary diplomatic and tactical clearances have been obtained, a "spare" (if there ever is such a thing ) frame BF'd and crew generated.

You are going to choose option A!! Choosing option A doesn't mean that option B never existed, it just means option A was better.

Therefore it is incorrect to say that the RAF were unwilling or unable to carry out the task. It is only correct to say that there was a better/quicker/simpler/more efficient alternative available.

Would you have had the RAF pre-position a rotary asset to Germany for the final ferry leg, or would you agree it would be better to use a German air ambulance?
So, it ISN'T odd that the RAF didn't carry out the task themselves. They simply didn't have the right assets in the right places at the right times, whereas USAF and German HeliMed services did.


I fully agree with your sentiments regarding the existing state of our AT regarding mail etc however, but there's only so long one can beat one's head against an immovable object. Once Gordo is history, then the beating can resume, but until then, I fear discretion is the best part of valour.

[barnstormer1968]

Moosemaster

Hi moosemaster.
We seem to still be as cross purposes here.
Have you read the thread concerned 'Do Americans care about British soldiers?'

One of the main points for me was the lack of UK medical facilities (not something to just disregard, but similar in some ways to the mail fiasco). Plus at no point did I ever suggest the RAF was unwilling to do anything. The RAF/MOD were unable to complete the task though (with the task being saving a soldiers life, rather than concentrating on one small (single service) aspect)

Originally by moosemaster
They simply didn't have the right assets in the right places at the right times, whereas USAF and German HeliMed services did.

Neither did the Americans, but they had the infrastructure in place to move people swifly and used your option 'B'(which IMHO was well demonstrated by the original thread (including soldiers angels))

[Wader2]

Medvac or Mail

Is this a medevac thread about flights west or a mail thread about flights east?

[Brewers Droop]

Definately says "Forces Mail to the 'stan" at the top of the page.

Mr C. Agree and disagree! I think most people appreciate the reality of the situation. However, having sat in aforementioned fox hole (well, more scorpions than red vermin that can't be hunted anymore) I'm just saying mail is important. I don't think we should discourage the public sending this stuff through (though I would be interested as to how it gets to who?).

I just think the "we haven't got enough AT so lets bin the mail" is a linear arguement. Has anyone thought about priority family mail, size restrictions, alternative means etc (okay, I accept this is a bit difficult in a landlocked country with restrictive LLOCs and the fact that it will cost money that we haven't got). Lets even tell people what to send (less socks, more gold and gentleman magazines!) The military postal system, though full of a bunch of really "can do" guys, seems to be little changed since WW2 (well except the recent decision to bin BFPO next year in a number of NATO static locations - great well thought through decision guys -really raised morale in the families ).

Surely its one of those issues that could be resolved by a little bit of lateral thinking, particularly prioritisation between family and public mail?

But I'm probably wrong with everything I've just said and I'm sure someone will be keen to remind me!

[cornish-stormrider]

Gents, on this thread I will allow ( mods permitting) a little thread drift.

It is blindingly obvious to all outside the the ivory towers that there is a momumental shortfall in much needed capacity. We need a great big load of support. FACT. Anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves.

I am getting mightily annoyed with the infighting that seems to go on while there is a war on. The politicians need to work out what they want us (the troops) to do and also what spare capacity they want to have. This does include SAR, Arrows, Tiffin, Dave, and anything else. They then say to the big men with egg on hats " righto bloggs, what do you need to meet these aims."

You then tell them the truth - this goes right down to an SAC who when asked tells the MP on his fact finding visit the truth (things like no doors on toilets, no sleep, the support services working short days) and you also tell them what you need.

The bottom line is that to do a task you need certain things, an airframe (serviceable and airworthy), a crew (not dog tired), fuel ammo etc.

You should not continually be having to cut corners to do it with nothing, but you are so used to doing it that if anyone says otherwise they are told to man up etc.

wake up, THE EMPORER HAS NO CLOTHES!

rant off, diverting to topic.

[Brewers Droop]

Good rant though

[moosemaster]

Wader, yes it is a thread about mail, however....

The mail topic can easily be sorted by the acquisition of more AT assets.

Barnstormer seems to have decided that the aeromed evac suffered because of the same problem, however my interpretation of the article is somewhat different. I'm not disregarding the lack of medical expertise, but it was an agreed point so no discussion is necessary. I was merely discounting other comments on the subject that implied that the RAF do not care about the soldiers.

He seems also not to have noticed that the article said that the USAF re-tasked assets that were ALREADY scheduled to travel to the desired locations, instead deciding that the RAF were unable to undertake the task, which was not reported and is only assumed on his part.

"We were able to quickly identify a mission that was planned to fly into Afghanistan, and after coordinating with other agencies in the 618th TACC we were able to re-task the mission as an aeromedical evacuation flight,"

Enter the second C-17 and aircrew, assigned to the 385th Air Expeditionary Group, who were also previously scheduled to fly a cargo mission in Afghanistan. Officials at the 618th TACC delivered a similar notification that they'd been re-tasked to be involved in the lifesaving effort.

That said, I'll not post further on the subject.

[barnstormer1968]

moosemaster

Hi.
OK I will give up on this.
As I said, I thought we were talking on cross purposes. I still say that, as however you like to put things (bearing in mind I did say the article was only one of the info sources) the RAF could still not have done it. I am not stuck in in a single service ideology here and so cannot disregard things just because they are not AT, as without all the pieces the job does not get done. I have re read my posts, and still can not find any reference to me ever saying the RAF do not care about the soldiers.

The cross purpose of our interpretations is summed up well by your comment:
The mail topic can easily be sorted by the acquisition of more AT assets.
I suppose from a NON front line RAF AT only point of view that may seem true, but I would feel that no matter how many AT assets you had, they would not get the mail to the front line by themselves. That is where the whole thing including soft skin/armoured vehicles, helicopters, accommodation, infrastructure, personnel/support etc fit into this*

*I am thinking mail as a whole (after the tat reference), not just to the easy to reach folks who are based near a runway, and with shops and burger joints to visit.

I only asked my original question, after many times getting totally brassed off at how much mail folks got whom were based/stationed at airfields (or other large places). How easy it was for them (easy, as in less hard), considering they had fresh water, electricity, and plentiful supplies. And how hard it was for others who were further to the front, and for whom boil in the bags, cold water (from your bottle) and sleeping on the floor were the norm. Although my times were more related to the cold war era, I must admit that receiving 'tat' was a real morale booster in these places.
I think I'd better stop too now.

[pulse1]

Government to Scrap BFPO

In the constant endeavour to demonstrate there are actually no depths to which this Government will sink it is now apparently planning to scrap BFPO.

Please sign this petition:
Petition to: reconsider the decision to remove British Forces Post Offices from mainland europe. | Number10.gov.uk

[Dancing Bear]

Pulse 1, you beat me to it by a small margin! Mrs Bear has signed up to after we received the following e-mail in our inbox today, it is an outrage and typical of this current collection of *****s in power.

Want to save the BFPO System?

Petition to: reconsider the decision to remove British Forces Post Offices from mainland europe. | Number10.gov.uk

Please click on and sign the above petition. Though we all understand that defence cuts are to be made, this is an area which affects the families in particular. The BFPO system is the mechanism whereby post is received by our serving soldiers, sailors and airmen and their famil ies abroad at a postal address recognised as being part of this country, no matter where in the world they are serving, even in war zones.

Amongst other things the loss of the BFPO service will disenfranchise them if they are postal voters; some credit card providers will not send cards abroad (M&S for example) whereas they will to a BFPO address; it may affect their ability to let their house whilst posted abroad, or away from home; it may take away their tax advantages such as being able to have an ISA whilst posted abroad. It will affect Open University students who have a BFPO address as they will be charged higher fees; it will potentially effect children of serving soldiers when they go to University, as they may not be eligible for student loans/fees to be paid, and will be charged higher fees as they live abroad. They will also be charged different rates for subscriptions etc. as they will now have to come via local mail, and not the UK mail.

Thanks for supporting our servicemen and women together with their families in this way and please forward this email to as many of your friends as you can.

Get behind this Guys and Gals, the BFPO is a fantastic organisation and it must not be allowed to fold!

[Gainesy]

Signed, now standing at 15,005.