Blues if not flying

[taxydual]

Oh for God's sake

A 21st Century Royal Air Force, currently on operational tasking in 'sandy places' where, incidentally, Royal Air Force personnel have lost their lives, and some 'Airship' or other starts dictating 'who wears what and when'.

Is it important???

It beggars belief!!! Niff Naff in the 21st Century!!

[sunshine band]

Taxydual- I totally agree.

Here's an idea- why don't we all print this out, stick it in an envelope and send it marked as "personal" to CAS... I'd love to know what he thinks of this all now...

I'm surprised at the CinC as well - warfighter or shop security guard first (or ticket collector on that train to Glasgow, Sir!)???

Has the media got a hold of this yet?? We will become a laughing stock!

All that money spent on the patches and logos on our DPMs, and we are not allowed to wear them- are we getting the equivalent in blue for our No 2s, or a large Roundel on our backs???

SB

[wg13_dummy]

Oh for God's sake

A 21st Century Royal Air Force, currently on operational tasking in 'sandy places' where, incidentally, Royal Air Force personnel have lost their lives, and some 'Airship' or other starts dictating 'who wears what and when'.

Is it important???

It beggars belief!!! Niff Naff in the 21st Century!!

I see you've mentioned 21st Century, Ops and the fact that RAF personnel have lost their lives. This obviously adds more weight to your argument that you really don’t want to do as you're told I suppose?

Call me old fashioned but tradition in the military is that the 'airships' or others do actually dictate what you do. It’s not a bleeding democracy you know.

Didn't Mr Hine C point out quite early on (and several times) in this thread that it wasn’t a case of 'everyone, regardless will not wear flying kit unless they are strapped to an aircraft' but more of a 'if your knocking around the station, wear the appropriate uniform for your job; blues if you aint digging a hole, crawling under an aircraft or actually flying or engaged in flying'?

Precious little things.

[Kengineer-130]

........ Smacks of todays air farce ... how about some decent mortar/rocket protection for people in the desert (both places!) instead of them taking their chances and "hoping" that it isn't thier turn this time?

[soddim]

Trouble with senior officers is that they all know a great deal about dressing up and what people should wear but they know bu**er all about flying or what motivates and demotivates their aircrew.

They are lucky to have some left - and they only stay because they love flying.

[ricardian]

I take it that the RAF short-sleeved blue shirt procurement problem has been resolved then. The last time I checked SROs we were only able to exchange them in exceptional circumstances.

Are they collar-attached or does the NAAFI still sell collar studs?

[taxydual]

WG13

I hear what you say (oh,and that's an awful phrase), and yes, the RAF have to do what the 'Airships' say.

But when an Air Force is bleeding (in more ways than one), in the 21st Century. I would have hoped that the 'Airships' would have passed a field dressing rather than a sartorial dressing.

Regards

[minigundiplomat]

WG, Chinecap et al raise a few good points, and in the case of the other two services I think there is an element of 'tongue in cheek' humour.

In reply, I would say that the content of this IBN is not really the issue for most. The appalling prioritisation is the real bugbear.

I read a message from CinC Land recently, attempting to address the current problems the army are having, telling them to ditch the pointless, minimise the 'nice to have' and concentrate on the here and now, and it struck me as an example of realism and good leadership.

What has the RAF had of late? An extra fatness test, some logo's, a few new titles and some revision of dress codes. Hardly a coherent response to an Air Force currently falling on it's arse.

A few people may find themselves wearing blues instead of flying suits, and it wont stop the world turning. However, what we need is leadership and not some half arsed attempt to sugar coat a turd.

[FJ2ME]

To all the people who have commented here at the 'preciousness' of RAF aircrew at such a trivial rule, you fools have missed the point. It is precisely the triviality of this point, and its untimely thrusting upon us that is the source of the dissatisfaction. This is the sort of rule that could be pondered, researched and reported on when everything else is tickety-boo, not when the walls are crumbling around us.

Here's food for thought-what exactly is "flying related" about standing in front of a Harrier in an international party suit to deliver an address on Equality and Diversity...? Are we to believe that Air Marshall Torpy trotted that performance out shortly before strapping the mighty FOD-hoover to his back and venturing skywards...I don't think so. Clearly he believes that aircrew should dress as such, so come on Sir, put the handbrake on this stupid rule that you clearly don't believe in yourself.

And while you've freed up all that conference and consultation time-can we have some new aircraft please?

[wg13_dummy]

I really fail to see why so many of you are getting so upset.

From what I can read into this, nothing will change.

Flying related to me would be;

If you are on the squadron and are due to fly that day - wear flying kit.
If you know you are not going to fly that day - wear your blue nylon slacks.

What did you wear prior to this order when not flying or not on flying related duties? If its a flying suit then the question has to be; why?

I'm sure there was a thread a while ago about people whinging due to the lack of flying suits. Probably because everyone was wearing them out when not flying perhaps?

[FJ2ME]

wg13_dummy, do behave. What operational and/or training flying station have you been to recently where you've seen aircrew habitually wearing blues, 32Sqn excepted? The rules have ever been thus concerning the Mk14 coverall and aircrew have always worn them. Your comments show your lack of knowledge. The reality is many an office day has been punctuated with a 'surprise' sim or flight and many flights get cancelled. The nature of the beast is flexibility and this rubbish just isn't compatible.

If you don;t understand the point then don't bother to comment, you're clearly too far away from the subject matter to understand the arguments.

If any uniform change was anticipated it was the ditching of the forest green all round in favour of sandy hues-seems to be what most of us spend our time wearing anyhow...Still, they'll no doubt have us in blues on det next, just in case there's media around...

And on a lighter note, this is spot on, we are indeed being massively disrespected!!:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9DR3vG...eature=related

[TheInquisitor]

If you are on the squadron and are due to fly that day - wear flying kit.
If you know you are not going to fly that day - wear your blue nylon slacks.

There are obviously some here who haven't read this IBN, or seem incapable of reading replies in this thread from others who have, so I shall iterate this one more time:

Nowhere does this document state that 'If you are not flying you are to wear blues. It states that if you are employed on Flying-Related Duties you wear a flying suit.

This means that, for those of us on a flying tour, there is nothing in this document that prevents you from wearing a flying suit every day you are in work. A Stn Cdr that interprets the document this way and orders 'Blues when not flying', is wrong - however, it's his Stn and his prerogative to do so, and, as has already been pointed out, this is not a democracy. However, he would be an absolute tool to do so and morale on his Stn would evaporate (assuming that there is any there to begin with).

So - what are 'flying-related duties'? We can easily solve this one, and perhaps kick this nonsense into touch in one fell swoop; All PA Spine aircrew, working at Gp, ITOC, HQ Air, etc - turn up for work every day in your flying suits. After all, the rules state that PA aircrew can ONLY be employed on 'flying or flying-related duties'.

If "Letter of the Law" is what they want, then let's give them precisely that:

AOC: "Why have you come to work in a flying suit, Sqn Ldr Bloggs?"
PA Sqn Ldr: "Because I am employed on flying-related duties, Sir"
AOC: "No you are not, you are an A5 planner here in the Black Hole of High Wycombe"
PA Sqn Ldr: "In that case Sir, I shouldn't be here at all. My TOS state that I can only be employed on "Flying or Flying Related Duties. Can I go back to a Sqn now, please?"

Ridiculous, yes, but so is this IBN, frankly. And some people's interpretation of it.

[SVK]

God Bless you all.

[Dan Winterland]

Does anyone remember the 1970s Flight Safety film 'Distractions?'

IIRC, the plot is that a Jag Sqn Flt Commander gets nibbled to death by ducks for two days and then goes flying. He's late for a range slot as a result of being overburdoned by trivia, rushes his checks and leaves the MASB at safe. When he loses and engine after takeoff, he presses the clearance button which doesn't work because it's not armed. He crashes and dies.

One of his many hassles is that he has to go to handbrake house for some trivia. As he's walking out of the door in his flying suit, the boss tells him to get changed into his blues as OC Admin wouldn't like it!



Seems it was happening then. The wheel turns!

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Dan,

Shame the nice bloke from 'Robin's Nest' got toasted, but if the Jag had had more thrust, it would have been ok!

This whole thing strikes me as a case of: 'Rearranging the deck chairs on the B Deck of Titanic'. If you've pretty much given up, might as well do something.... anything.

Advo

[Pontius Navigator]

Backwards PLT said

What bothers me more is that it is a direct attack on CS95. We had just got to the point where many were op focussed in the RAF, getting away from our 1990s Mon-Fri 8-5 office image, and some idiot (with all due respect, sir) decides to bin that and remind us that we should be Mon-Fri 8-5, don't get ops oriented. Because that is what no 2s symbolize. I hate to say it but the army have gone the right way - CS95 if not in specialist kit

Sunshineband wrote

All that money spent on the patches and logos on our DPMs, and we are not allowed to wear them- are we getting the equivalent in blue for our No 2s, or a large Roundel on our backs???

and having read the IBN note that the green demin is to be replaced by a new blue overall with an RAF Logo patch.

The whole thing, and the IBN says this, is a PRO exercise to raise public perception.

Remember the other services are apparently to go away from CS95 too. We are at war and we are now going away from wartime dress.

I don't believe these are in stock yet and that is non-essential expenditure.

[Rigger1]

Ask the aircrew to put on blues when they are not flying and just watch them moan. All the constant wearing of flying suits does is create more of an us and them situation.
I was on a sqn once when even the SAC ops clerk was told he could wear a flying suit so he didn’t feel left out as he worked with the aircrew and not the engineers …… surprised the boss’s civvie admin girl didn’t get one as well.
The RAF is blue and if not flying everyone should wear the correct uniform, engineers have to take their overalls off when going to the mess etc (even if you work in the LOX bay and they are spotless) so it’s about time the ‘master race’ joined in with the rest of the team.

[Pontius Navigator]

Rigger, there was a time when people in clean bays wore coats not overalls. Far easier to take off and put on. Smarter too than ill fitting overalls.

But why change from green to blue overalls as the whole exercise is supposed to improve public awareness? Blue overalls will do nothing to help this.

[Rigger1]

I totally agree, the overall change is a ridiculous waste of money, how many members of the public get to see us engineers at work anyway?

But when it comes to flying suits ….. don’t get me started.

[Al R]

Not wearing CS95 allows respite from operational tempo. It can be used to subliminally denote a period of (almost) R&R away from yet another nose to the grindstone session. As I recall, no one walked around RAFG in IPE all the time, so why the obsession for making everyone believe we're at war all the time now? At Aldergrove in the 70s and 80s, what was the rig of the day then?

A military campaign is not a sprint, and I don't think there's anything wrong in moving more into blues when circumstances allow. For god's sake, an Olympic athlete needs downtime, and even an F1 car has to blip down a cog or two sometimes during a race - it doesn't automatically make it an uncompetitive racecar.

And I think aircrew should be allowed to wear flying rig, just to annoy people.