Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
MPN11, see my Post #9937. Same picture but fuller attribution given here:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:V..._K_cockpit.jpg
103 Sqn France May 1940. The Pennant supposedly represented both Flight and Sqn. Made up presumably before things got busy...
(Think that it's supposed to be a Black Swan)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:V..._K_cockpit.jpg
103 Sqn France May 1940. The Pennant supposedly represented both Flight and Sqn. Made up presumably before things got busy...
(Think that it's supposed to be a Black Swan)
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oops, sorry Chugalug2 ... I'd missed that post 
Hello Danny (#9935)
Thanks for that - Arthur was in "B" flight at this time, so this is presumably B flight O.C. S/Ldr Joel, who must be one of the gentlemen in the front row. W/Cdr Saunders was C/O so is likely there as well. Next move was to Kolar and then Yelahanka, when he joined "A" flight O.C. S/Ldr Sutherland DFC. Joel was later acting C/O after the loss of Saunders and Sutherland. He logged his last flight in a Vengeance in December '44 and first in a Mosquito in Feb '45, then to 1672 CU also at Yelahanka.
The album also has a photo taken during a mountain climb - survival training? Looks like it was pretty arduous, some of the men look distinctly "browned off."
Thanks for that - Arthur was in "B" flight at this time, so this is presumably B flight O.C. S/Ldr Joel, who must be one of the gentlemen in the front row. W/Cdr Saunders was C/O so is likely there as well. Next move was to Kolar and then Yelahanka, when he joined "A" flight O.C. S/Ldr Sutherland DFC. Joel was later acting C/O after the loss of Saunders and Sutherland. He logged his last flight in a Vengeance in December '44 and first in a Mosquito in Feb '45, then to 1672 CU also at Yelahanka.
The album also has a photo taken during a mountain climb - survival training? Looks like it was pretty arduous, some of the men look distinctly "browned off."
JW411, PM sent.
MPN11, no problem. I must admit that my first thought was Polish as well, but like you I saw the same pic in the Wiki Battle page and simply opened it up to its own page (as can be done with all Wiki pics). My bet would be that the Flt Cdr's wife was a dab hand at needlework...
Danny, you may not be able to recognise any of those posing in front of the VV, but you can spot a Mk4 when you see one.
As to mounting Battles from the wrong side, I think that the right side was the Right Side, if you see what I mean?
Oh, and the gubbins hanging down behind the mainwheels are the retraction jacks (see the cutaway Aeroplane drawing previously posted @ 9837)
MPN11, no problem. I must admit that my first thought was Polish as well, but like you I saw the same pic in the Wiki Battle page and simply opened it up to its own page (as can be done with all Wiki pics). My bet would be that the Flt Cdr's wife was a dab hand at needlework...
Danny, you may not be able to recognise any of those posing in front of the VV, but you can spot a Mk4 when you see one.
As to mounting Battles from the wrong side, I think that the right side was the Right Side, if you see what I mean?
Oh, and the gubbins hanging down behind the mainwheels are the retraction jacks (see the cutaway Aeroplane drawing previously posted @ 9837)
Last edited by Chugalug2; 1st Jan 2017 at 12:11. Reason: Gubbins
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Nice! Thanks for that.
The superb Hector photo reveals two rows of exhaust stubs -- it's the H24 Napier Dagger, which had 24 cylinders, with 24 spark plugs and 48 valves, all of which required frequent maintenance. Designer Frank Halford learned from the Dagger to produce the mighty Napier Sabre for the Typhoon and Tempest, and by 1946 it was the world's most powerful aero-engine certified at 5000bhp for civil use. But by then we had entered the jet age.
On another subject, please note that I posted #9900 on Boxing Day, this is #9950. Danny, stand by for post #10000 even if you post a few lines to fill #9998/9, other personnel please prepare to stand clear for this historic occasion
On another subject, please note that I posted #9900 on Boxing Day, this is #9950. Danny, stand by for post #10000 even if you post a few lines to fill #9998/9, other personnel please prepare to stand clear for this historic occasion
JW411 & Chugalug2
I'm sure you have established this fact by PM already, but it struck me straightaway, that though you may have never met, you are linked by being mates of Dave Carter.
Almost 9 years since he left us so early - Anne ( Mrs B48N ) and I still miss the old bu**er!
Almost 9 years since he left us so early - Anne ( Mrs B48N ) and I still miss the old bu**er!
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Many Things.
Geriaviator (pp Rupert Parkhouse, #9934),
Almost certainly the one formerly known as the "Norbreck Hydro"; in Rupert's time (and in my schooldays). Now the Norbreck Castle Hotel [Wiki]. Think the Ministry of Pensions (now DWP) had it at some time.
A bit hard, after all he'd gone through ! But then again, perhaps the psychiatrists (behind the scenes) were on to something. For:
This is not healthy. We all make mistakes - the man who never made a mistake never made anything. But what is done is done, and cannot be undone. Learn from them - but don't let them prey on your mind.
I myself made a howling mistake that February day when I reduced my VV to scrap in the Arakan - my gunner and I survived only by a miracle; if we both had died, it would have been my fault. But I don't let that worry me.
.........................................................
esa-aardvark (#9940),
I assume he would be the Flight Engineer ? Was he the Engineer Officer of 82 ?.
This is pure gold to me ! For the very first time in almost five years I have support for the widely believed story that the first VVs were assembled as jigsaw puzzles (needs simple home assembly...!), all the paperwork having been lost in transit. If you have any more on this, please Post it, so's we can all enjoy it !
............................................................ .........
Chugalug (#9946},
Don't be too sure ! Camera angles can be deceptive. You've seen plenty of head=on Is, IIs and IIIs, what do you reckon ?
Frankly, no I don't. my revered young Mentor ! Are you saying that the stbd side was the correct side for any aircraft cockpit of this kind (of course the heavies had doors all over the place). What would a horse think ? You can't be serious ! (to coin a phrase).
I read with difficulty with magnifying glass (having a Bad Eye Day doesn't help): "ACTUATING RODS & RAMS" . Still foxed. In all the retraction systems I know, the hydrauics are hidden up in the wheelwells. How would this rig work ?
Running a bit behind schedule tonight, consequence of enjoying myself hugely on "Capcom". What a pic ! This could run and run. Wouldn't like to judge it though."Wer die Wahl hat, hat der Qual" (Choosing hurts).
A Happy New Year to all our readers !
Danny.
...which was the round-the-bend hospital at Cleveleys [Hotel]...
A bit hard, after all he'd gone through ! But then again, perhaps the psychiatrists (behind the scenes) were on to something. For:
...“I realised that if I did not do so then I would never lay the ghost of that awful mistake, which I think engendered a basic underlying fear of flying.”...
I myself made a howling mistake that February day when I reduced my VV to scrap in the Arakan - my gunner and I survived only by a miracle; if we both had died, it would have been my fault. But I don't let that worry me.
.........................................................
esa-aardvark (#9940),
...whilst serving at Leuchars at the end of the mission they landed wheels up...
...I do recall him telling me that they assembled the Vengeance without proper documentation, and had to adjust the Cycloneengines without the test equipment which he had just trainedon in USA...
............................................................ .........
Chugalug (#9946},
...but you can spot a Mk4 when you see one...
...As to mounting 'Battles' from the wrong side, I think that the right side was the Right Side, if you see what I mean?...
...Oh, and the gubbins hanging down behind the mainwheels are the retraction jacks (see the cutaway Aeroplane drawing previously posted @ 9837)...
Running a bit behind schedule tonight, consequence of enjoying myself hugely on "Capcom". What a pic ! This could run and run. Wouldn't like to judge it though."Wer die Wahl hat, hat der Qual" (Choosing hurts).
A Happy New Year to all our readers !
Danny.
Brian48Nav, you are right on all counts. The RAF was large enough in those days to avoid someone if you set about it wisely, and JW411 wisely succeeded in avoiding me! As to Dave Carter, I had no idea that we lived so close until I found out from you. Too late though. Another good man gone, and far too soon.
Danny:-
My Lord, I offer in evidence this link to a photograph of a Fairey Battle in the process of restoration. Your Lordship will no doubt notice that the driver enters it from the right hand side. I apologise to Your Lordship for the caption not being in English. Frankly it's all Double Dutch to me!
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey..._Battle_nl.jpg
As to the process by which the undercarriage was extended and retracted by means of the "Actuating Rods and Rams", it was clearly enabled by a suitable system of levers and linkages, as with all such arrangements. The engineering chappies will know the specifics, that's what they're there for after all. Anyone for Tennis?
As to the mark VV in the group photo, if you say that it's a Mark 4 then it's a Mark 4 in my book. There is definite incidence to the fuselage, and I have it on excellent authority that discounts all other marks. QED!
Finally I hope that you've had a great Christmas and that the next one will be equally enjoyable for you. Happy New Year, Danny!
Danny:-
What would a horse think ? You can't be serious !
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey..._Battle_nl.jpg
As to the process by which the undercarriage was extended and retracted by means of the "Actuating Rods and Rams", it was clearly enabled by a suitable system of levers and linkages, as with all such arrangements. The engineering chappies will know the specifics, that's what they're there for after all. Anyone for Tennis?
As to the mark VV in the group photo, if you say that it's a Mark 4 then it's a Mark 4 in my book. There is definite incidence to the fuselage, and I have it on excellent authority that discounts all other marks. QED!
Finally I hope that you've had a great Christmas and that the next one will be equally enjoyable for you. Happy New Year, Danny!
In seeking absolution for my outrageously flippant attitude so flagrantly displayed above, I offer this picture that claims to show the Main Gear retraction arrangements of the Fairey Battle. Hopefully it can be understood and explained by those more technically able than I:-
Another view of the Battle u/c: the retraction rams folded backwards with the wheels, which themselves remained mostly below the wing to give protection in a belly landing, and because the wing was not deep enough to house them. Exterior bomb racks are also visible. (Plt Off M H Roth of 142 Sqn formates on my father’s aircraft, Andover 1938. Roth was shot down on May 10 1940 while attacking German columns and taken POW, ending up in Stalag Luft III with Rupert Parkhouse.)
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Do not Fart against Thunder !
Chugalug (#9955),
Counsel for the Defendant sits down with victorious flourish; Counsel for the Complainant rises in abject misery and throws in the towel. Resolves to treble his Fee to his idiot Client for putting him up with such a ridiculous case, kicks himself for ever accepting the Brief (but then his wife had been going on and on about a Christmas Break in Gstaad).
My Lord looks at him sourly over pince-nez, says will refer case to Bar Council to have this Clown unfrocked.
''''''''''''''''''''
You are right, Chugalug - it's a fair cop ! Internet Explorer turned up its nose at your Link, but Google Chrome would play. "Ha !", I thought, "the negative has been reversed - I know the Merlin runs the prop clockwise as viewed from the cockpit, let's have a look at the blades !" Oh woe, oh willowy waley ! Picture is kosher. Must retire in confusion.
All is not lost, it was not double-dutch, but Norwegian. What a glorious find !Henceforth I shall descibe myself as an (ex) dive-bommenwerper. Priceless !
The wing, acherly ! (slip of the pen, of course),
Yours in the Dunce's Cap, Danny.
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Chugalug and Geriaviator (#9956-7),
All clear as crystal now - thanks ! (but the little red "X" had beaten me to your pic, Geriaviator) EDIT: Pic has come back ! But why, oh why, not put a spinner on to complete the picture ?
The Dak and the Anson had the same protruding wheels (good idea). Was a wartime case of an Anson chap who lost both (donks) at height over airfield. Had plenty of time on way down to crank-up wheels and then use starter motors to set both props E-W. Dead-sticked on runway, nil damage. Good Show !
All the best for 2017 !
Danny.
... My Lord, I offer in evidence this link to a photograph of a Fairey Battle in the process of restoration. Your Lordship will no doubt notice that the driver enters it from the right hand side. I apologise to Your Lordship for the caption not being in English. Frankly it's all Double Dutch to me! <https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey>Battle_nl.jpg>...
My Lord looks at him sourly over pince-nez, says will refer case to Bar Council to have this Clown unfrocked.
''''''''''''''''''''
You are right, Chugalug - it's a fair cop ! Internet Explorer turned up its nose at your Link, but Google Chrome would play. "Ha !", I thought, "the negative has been reversed - I know the Merlin runs the prop clockwise as viewed from the cockpit, let's have a look at the blades !" Oh woe, oh willowy waley ! Picture is kosher. Must retire in confusion.
All is not lost, it was not double-dutch, but Norwegian. What a glorious find !Henceforth I shall descibe myself as an (ex) dive-bommenwerper. Priceless !
...There is definite incidence to the fuselage...
Yours in the Dunce's Cap, Danny.
............................................................ ..
Chugalug and Geriaviator (#9956-7),
All clear as crystal now - thanks ! (but the little red "X" had beaten me to your pic, Geriaviator) EDIT: Pic has come back ! But why, oh why, not put a spinner on to complete the picture ?
The Dak and the Anson had the same protruding wheels (good idea). Was a wartime case of an Anson chap who lost both (donks) at height over airfield. Had plenty of time on way down to crank-up wheels and then use starter motors to set both props E-W. Dead-sticked on runway, nil damage. Good Show !
All the best for 2017 !
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 2nd Jan 2017 at 13:58. Reason: Addn.
THE PARKHOUSE MEMOIRS – Part 21
The memoirs of Sqn Ldr Rupert Parkhouse, recorded in 1995 – Part 21. First post in this series is #9775 on page 489 of this thread.
“I went to the OCU at Benson for 14 days' ground school and was able to get home every weekend, which was a great bonus”, says Rupert. It was indeed a bonus, for he wooed and married Rosemary, the sister of an old school friend. The couple are pictured on their wedding day in 1946, and on their anniversary 70 years later in their nursing home in Southbourne, this picture courtesy of the Bournemouth Echo. Rosemary, now 93, said: “I think we were two very lucky people who clicked together and stayed together.”
NEXT POST: Rupert soldiers on with the Mosquito, but is relieved when he is transferred to be a staff pilot at Leuchars in Scotland, operating the kindly Anson on navigation training.
“I went to the OCU at Benson for 14 days' ground school and was able to get home every weekend, which was a great bonus”, says Rupert. It was indeed a bonus, for he wooed and married Rosemary, the sister of an old school friend. The couple are pictured on their wedding day in 1946, and on their anniversary 70 years later in their nursing home in Southbourne, this picture courtesy of the Bournemouth Echo. Rosemary, now 93, said: “I think we were two very lucky people who clicked together and stayed together.”
FROM BLACKPOOL I was sent to a POW rehabilitation unit at West Malling where we spent a month being lectured. They actually tried to give us drill which we steadfastly refused to do. I was given a fortnight's leave at the end of November, and I went to the Air Ministry where I persuaded Wing Cdr Day to put me back on the list for flying. I realised that if I did not do so then I would never lay the ghost of that awful mistake, which I think engendered a basic underlying fear of flying.
So I was sent to 21 PAFU, a pilots' advanced flying unit, and I met a lot of other ex-POWs on the train to Wolverhampton where we were met by RAF lorry for our journey to RAF Wheaton Aston.
We arrived at the Mess about 5pm on November 10, 1945, and were just unloading our luggage when above the 10/10 cloud we heard the most terrific explosion and about a minute later a Mosquito fuselage, minus outer wing sections and tailplane, flames belching from both engines, came hurtling out of the sky like a flaming rocket and went crunch into the centre of the airfield.
About two minutes later a Roman-candling parachute came out, it hadn't developed properly, and beneath it was the body of a man spreadeagled with his arms out and his foot attached to the parachute harness, going at such a speed he could not possibly have survived the impact. Then about 10 minutes later we saw a man coming down on a fully developed parachute, so we could see the general direction he was going, and boarded the lorry to retrieve him.
I have always thought what an amazing return to flying that was, that so soon we should see the dark side of that activity. I never knew what happened to the aeroplane but it must have had an effect on me because I took about 20 hours to go solo on the Oxford. [The Mosquito PR34, fastest of all the Mosquitos, had been on a radar calibration flight when the starboard engine exploded and started an airframe fire. The navigator survived but the pilot, P/Officer John Peter Van der Heijden, RAFVR, was killed – Ed.]
My instructors were all dying to leave the Service and became rather impatient, but I don't know why I found it frightfully difficult to readjust. Eventually I went solo and was then sent to Seighford to do a beam approach course, which was successful.
By that time Alistair Panton had got to Benson as SLO and Tommy Callen, another POW, was on the staff at the photographic HQ, and they arranged that I should join the Mosquito OTU. Well, the adjutant at 21 PAFU tried to persuade me against this, saying that I had obviously had difficulty on the Oxford and it was really crazy for me to go and fly the Mosquito which was known to be quite a tricky aeroplane. But I was starting to get optimistic by then and I wanted to get to Alistair Panton and a lot of other POWs who were now flying at Benson.
So I went to the OCU at Benson for 14 days' ground school and was able to get home every weekend, which was a great bonus. The OCU aircraft moved to a satellite aircraft called Chalgrove and I was there in June and July flying dual on the Mosquito T.3, an unarmed trainer version with dual controls.
So I was sent to 21 PAFU, a pilots' advanced flying unit, and I met a lot of other ex-POWs on the train to Wolverhampton where we were met by RAF lorry for our journey to RAF Wheaton Aston.
We arrived at the Mess about 5pm on November 10, 1945, and were just unloading our luggage when above the 10/10 cloud we heard the most terrific explosion and about a minute later a Mosquito fuselage, minus outer wing sections and tailplane, flames belching from both engines, came hurtling out of the sky like a flaming rocket and went crunch into the centre of the airfield.
About two minutes later a Roman-candling parachute came out, it hadn't developed properly, and beneath it was the body of a man spreadeagled with his arms out and his foot attached to the parachute harness, going at such a speed he could not possibly have survived the impact. Then about 10 minutes later we saw a man coming down on a fully developed parachute, so we could see the general direction he was going, and boarded the lorry to retrieve him.
I have always thought what an amazing return to flying that was, that so soon we should see the dark side of that activity. I never knew what happened to the aeroplane but it must have had an effect on me because I took about 20 hours to go solo on the Oxford. [The Mosquito PR34, fastest of all the Mosquitos, had been on a radar calibration flight when the starboard engine exploded and started an airframe fire. The navigator survived but the pilot, P/Officer John Peter Van der Heijden, RAFVR, was killed – Ed.]
My instructors were all dying to leave the Service and became rather impatient, but I don't know why I found it frightfully difficult to readjust. Eventually I went solo and was then sent to Seighford to do a beam approach course, which was successful.
By that time Alistair Panton had got to Benson as SLO and Tommy Callen, another POW, was on the staff at the photographic HQ, and they arranged that I should join the Mosquito OTU. Well, the adjutant at 21 PAFU tried to persuade me against this, saying that I had obviously had difficulty on the Oxford and it was really crazy for me to go and fly the Mosquito which was known to be quite a tricky aeroplane. But I was starting to get optimistic by then and I wanted to get to Alistair Panton and a lot of other POWs who were now flying at Benson.
So I went to the OCU at Benson for 14 days' ground school and was able to get home every weekend, which was a great bonus. The OCU aircraft moved to a satellite aircraft called Chalgrove and I was there in June and July flying dual on the Mosquito T.3, an unarmed trainer version with dual controls.
Danny:-
Ah, a nice return by opposing counsel, leaving our side in slight confusion. The site is the Dutch version of wiki (hence the .nl in the hyperlink) and the attribute for the pic (which I belatedly produce now) gives:-
ie in Dutch and (for whatever reason) Polish, and yet I hesitate to question learned Counsel further, for he has a far wider knowledge of European languages than myself (the bane of several French teachers who as a result often resorted to colloquialisms not found in standard textbooks). So I in turn will shuffle my papers feverishly and quickly change the subject...
Danny:-
I do apologise, My Lord, I expressed myself poorly. I should have said that there appears to be a positive Angle of Incidence between the wings and the fuselage. I thank your Lordship for allowing me to clarify the point I was trying to make. (smiles obsequiously to his Lordship, who returns it with the same uber pince-nez scowl he has just given to Counsel for the Complainant. Things not looking at all good suddenly!
Geriaviator, Sqn Ldr Parkhouse seems to have a penchant for setting himself targets that he cannot meet and then persuading others to let him have a go nonetheless. If only his Flt Cdr in France had refused to authorise him to fly on account of his youthfulness and lack of experience as he had first intended. This approach of constantly proving yourself against all evidence to the contrary may have worked out on the playing fields of Public Schools but in aviation it is a one way ticket, and especially so in wartime. Now he is trying to rebuild his confidence by learning to fly the Mosquito, of all types!
It seems by your comments though that at last his superiors have engaged mind over matter...and not too soon!
All is not lost, it was not double-dutch, but Norwegian.
Fairey Battle light bomber
Nederlands: Fairey Battle in het Koninklijk Museum van het Leger en de Krijgsgeschiedenis te Brussel
Polski: Zdjęcie z Muzeum Lotnictwa w Brukseli z 2005 roku.
Created by nl:user:Paul Hermans and released under GFDL
Uploaded to nl wiki by Paul Hermans on January 31, 2005
Nederlands: Fairey Battle in het Koninklijk Museum van het Leger en de Krijgsgeschiedenis te Brussel
Polski: Zdjęcie z Muzeum Lotnictwa w Brukseli z 2005 roku.
Created by nl:user:Paul Hermans and released under GFDL
Uploaded to nl wiki by Paul Hermans on January 31, 2005
Danny:-
The wing, acherly ! (slip of the pen, of course),
Geriaviator, Sqn Ldr Parkhouse seems to have a penchant for setting himself targets that he cannot meet and then persuading others to let him have a go nonetheless. If only his Flt Cdr in France had refused to authorise him to fly on account of his youthfulness and lack of experience as he had first intended. This approach of constantly proving yourself against all evidence to the contrary may have worked out on the playing fields of Public Schools but in aviation it is a one way ticket, and especially so in wartime. Now he is trying to rebuild his confidence by learning to fly the Mosquito, of all types!
It seems by your comments though that at last his superiors have engaged mind over matter...and not too soon!
Brian 48nav and Chugalug2:
Dave Carter was probably the best mate that I ever had and I miss him deeply. About 2 years before I retired from professional flying at age 65, I bought a Piper PA-28 which I kept at Shoreham. I started a monthly Old Pharts club whereby, once a month, four of us would fly somewhere for lunch and tell each other lies.
As it so happens, I took the officer Carter on his very last flight. As best as I can remember it was 15.02.08 (the day after his birthday). We (or the weather) decided that we were going to Lydd. I invited him to get into the left seat and take us there. He had not been particularly well and he said that my insurance company might not like the idea.
"F**k the insurance company" said I "get in and do it". And do it he did in his usual immaculate manner. Bob Osborne flew us back after a good lunch. Dave thanked me for letting him have a go and two weeks later he was dead.
At the risk of starting another thread drift, I am convinced that letting him and so many others watch the serious firework displays off Christmas Island with very little protection might well have expedited his end.
Here is Captain Carter about to commit his last piece of avaition.
Dave Carter was probably the best mate that I ever had and I miss him deeply. About 2 years before I retired from professional flying at age 65, I bought a Piper PA-28 which I kept at Shoreham. I started a monthly Old Pharts club whereby, once a month, four of us would fly somewhere for lunch and tell each other lies.
As it so happens, I took the officer Carter on his very last flight. As best as I can remember it was 15.02.08 (the day after his birthday). We (or the weather) decided that we were going to Lydd. I invited him to get into the left seat and take us there. He had not been particularly well and he said that my insurance company might not like the idea.
"F**k the insurance company" said I "get in and do it". And do it he did in his usual immaculate manner. Bob Osborne flew us back after a good lunch. Dave thanked me for letting him have a go and two weeks later he was dead.
At the risk of starting another thread drift, I am convinced that letting him and so many others watch the serious firework displays off Christmas Island with very little protection might well have expedited his end.
Here is Captain Carter about to commit his last piece of avaition.