Red Arrows

[Al R]

Ok, so I confess. I was sad enough to actually watch that. Whats even sadder though, is that whoever it was representing the 'Royal Air Force' didn't bother to proof it properly, or more likely, knew sod all about the Royal Air Force.

This sums up everything for me. Modernistic toss, all style (ha), no substance. Its a bloody mess and no mistake. No doubt, whoever is in charge of publicity and recruiting or who it was in uniform who approved this will be allowed to stay in post in order 'to put right, the wrong'. If it wasn't all such a bad joke, it'd be laughable. Cue jokes about 'I knew we should have kept Navigators, because..'.

[rafmatt]

Thats nothing compared to what the two new aircraft tugs at Kinloss have on them will post a pic when i get one.

a 6ft RAF Roundel
on both sides

wtf..............

it just looks so gay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[normally right blank]

The RAF lettering on the Gnat: How long did that last?
Was it carried over to the Hawk?
"Keep it simple sweetheart"
If "Joe Public" think it is Ferrari's air display team, so what!

[bayete]

Re: RAF YouTube Video

I found it amusing that the next 3 related videos titles are:
"Tornado making hash of AAR"
"Fire ass"
"RAF rise above the rest"
Genius
Didn't there used to be something derrogitory about Brown or Prescott as the top search result on Google.
P.S. Quote "Hercules (J) the only Herc quick enough to keep up with the Typhoon"
What is the J ramp and door limit, is it the same as the K?
A simple yes or no will suffice no slagging match need , I'm just curious.

[Al R]

Bayete,

Alas, you stopped too soon. Competing with 'Flying Objects' and just a little further down the list is Kinloss 'legend' Jamie, starring in that other recruiting classic.. 'Puke Drinker'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHuaR-pkwmw

[Clockwork Mouse]

Apology

First, I apologise to Jas Hawker and The Red Arrows for having started this thread. In my naivety I did not think that it would degenerate into the can of worms for which this forum is now regrettably becoming renowned.

The pros and cons of the new logo are unimportant. As far as I am concerned The Red Arrows represent to the world all that is best about the RAF, our Armed Forces and our country; striving for and maintaining the highest of standards, the ultimate in professionalism, giving our nation something that is world beating, to delight in and to be proud of.

The negative, small-minded, envious and disloyal wingeing tone of many of the (I am sorry to have to say it) Air Force posters on this thread represents what is worst in our Forces and our country. BigBusDriver, a civilian from the US, comments on it succinctly. Take note of what he says. This is a very public forum and the way you represent your Service on it makes me, a former soldier, feel ashamed of you.

Last, I want to wish the Team a successful, safe and rewarding tour to the Far East, representing our country, its Forces and its manufacturing industry. Stay safe.

[Al R]

Clockwork Mouse said in his first post.. : What do people think of the new paint scheme, which can be seen on the RAF website?

Ohhh. You should have said you wanted us to agree with you! It would have made things far easier.

I am offended at your attitude. Please, if you want to use a straw man argument, do so.. but whatever you do, don't call me negative, small-minded, envious and disloyal. I don't know about you Mouse, but I've earned my funny pension, I have served my country (quite well, even though I say it myself) and I've earned the right to have my say, even if it isn't sycophantic mindless twaddle.

[OilCan]

did you seriously expect anything else?

a former soldier, feel ashamed of you.

You've joined the majority then.

[rudekid]

Al R

If you'd read any of the other Red Arrows threads in which Clockwork Mouse is involved, you would realise that any criticism of them is impossible for him to accept!

I agree with you that, it is surprising that he would start a thread like this and not expect any adverse comment from the jealous, petty-minded and unprofessional people in the RAF not lucky enough to be able to ponce around in a Red flying suit contributing nothing to current operations.

I think his son must be in the Reds or in the support team. Any truth in that?

TFRK

[Al R]

I didn't have a pop at the Reds though, when I see them at places like Goodwood, I want to grab people around me and say 'Look you poncy fukers, take your faces out of your cheap glasses of plonk and gaze up in abject humble awe at a representation of the finest combat fliers in the world today', and as I said, my respect and admiration for what they do is boundless.

But my point, and many others too, isn't aimed at them, but rather the wnkers who haven't got a clue about things like passion, pride, loyalty.. all that good stuff, who come out with a poxy half arsed paint job like that in order to make themselves look good. With the greatest of respect to Red 1, he possibly just churned out some copy (if he ever even saw it) generated by some underling in the Department for Amateurish PR Bolocks who needed to justify his place at the trough.

If anything, those of us who deride this silly civilianisation and dilution of the Red Arrows and the ones defending their core values. I rather think that Mouse has a greater issue with affording the opposition ammunition by debating so critically and introspectively it in a public way. To an extent, he has a point. Open criticism such as the 'Questions for CAS' thread won't be doing CAS any favours, but the bottom line is, things need to improve. Sure, the Air Chief Marshalls might have no new clothes, but as we're constantly told, the RAF is not a democracy, but it sure as hell is a meritocracy.

[The Swinging Monkey]

I too am an avid supporter of the Reds, but I must agree with Al R on this point. I don't know of anyone who doesn't know that the Red Arrows are RAF!

It is just another pointless and unneccessary waste of valuable money that the service can ill-afford, and displays a certain amount of contempt for those who need it most - SH, AT et al.

Clockwork Mouse.
Your comments were unwarranted. People have the right to comment on this kind of thing as much as anyone else - certainly some more than you do! To call them negative, small-minded, envious and disloyal simply because they disagree with you is a bad show, and I would suggest you retract those comments.

I would think that the likes of Al R and the hundreds of others who are frankly 'slumming it' at the moment, whether it be in Afg, Irag or in the mess, will be dissapointed that the RAF has found itself able to repaint 9 aircraft in a new (not-needed) colour schene, at some ridiculaous cost, whilst they are living in squaller many of them, without adequate kit etc.

TSM

[rafmatt]

actually it would cost f all if they let the RAF painters paint them.
Its the fact they come under a civvy contract that makes em expensive.

stop bloody moaning it could be worse they could have just binned em

[L1A2 discharged]

actually it would cost f all if they let the RAF painters paint them.
Its the fact they come under a civvy contract that makes em expensive.

.... except that the RAF has just got rid of the painters

[rafmatt]

we are still painting we havnt gone yet!!!!!
Its not like they said the painters are finished then we all dissapear.

lol

£5 pair of painted shoes get em while they last.....

[Human Factor]

The Red Arrows. Possibly (probably) the most professional military aerobatic display team in the world. They have been around since the Sixties and are certainly the most recognisable display team in the world and are great ambassadors for UK PLC. I am a huge fan.

Good job someone thought to write "Royal Air Force" on the side though. I may have mistaken them for someone else.

[BigBusDriver]

You may be surprised how many people outside (and probably inside unfortunately) the UK would look at you in bewilderment if you shgowed them a picture of a Red Hawk.

I work in the aviation industry in the US, with a lot of former military pilots and ground crew, and in casual conversation I've been amazed at how many of them have little or no clue about air power outside the US.

[FFP]

In that case, I blame the RAF Exchange officers out there then. What the hell they all doing out there if not educating their colleagues on UK military aircraft

[OilCan]

Bigbusdriver said,

I've been amazed at how many of them have little or no clue about air power outside the US.

There are many of them who have no clue about anything outside the US, including the fuc*king president.

[Al R]

Big Bus Driver said:
You may be surprised how many people outside (and probably inside unfortunately) the UK would look at you in bewilderment if you shgowed them a picture of a Red Hawk.

I work in the aviation industry in the US, with a lot of former military pilots and ground crew, and in casual conversation I've been amazed at how many of them have little or no clue about air power outside the US.

You're right, I would be very surprised. But thats not the issue. it was not one of Red 1's stated aims, although it does raise an interesting point. You mean that this (gulp) paint job might not have been done to make the lads in the field feel respected, but instead, is nothing more than a tacky sales device?

Sorry, I refuse to accept that we'd be fed bull**** and tacky spin.. uh uh, absolutely no way.

[Gainesy]

Swanex? Jealous?

Not at all Obs, got those T-shirts. What hacks me off is that we have to enhance our reputation with the Yanks as "The Borrowers" and equally, any bought in/rented assets (C-130) should be supporting the troops deployed.