Red Arrows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,343
Likes: 116
From: UK
The Red Arrows leave the UK on Sunday 4 November 2007 for a six-week good will tour of the Middle and Far East, returning to the UK on 18 December 2007. They are set to visit 13 countries, including Jordan, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman, Malaysia, India and Pakistan.
Anyone clever enough to be able to put "Women's Aux Balloon Corps" on the side of the jet picture for me???
LJ
Joined: Jun 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: Going deeper underground
Now, let me get this straight - the jets are still red with a white stripe and its says 'Royal Air Force' on the side. What is new about any of that except the cost? 
Reminds me of when BP trumpetted their shiny new logo some years ago, when the image consultants they hired just swapped the green letters on a yellow background to yellow on green at a cost of several hundred thousand quid.
Reminds me of when BP trumpetted their shiny new logo some years ago, when the image consultants they hired just swapped the green letters on a yellow background to yellow on green at a cost of several hundred thousand quid.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
From: at the end of the bar
Considering the original scheme (give or take some fin decoration) lasted 28 years, you can ask:
(i) What was wrong with the old one?
(ii) Did some 'Brand imagineeer' say 'That's soooooooooo 1908s, we need to bring you into the Noughties'?
and be thankful they didn't change the name to something more PC and warlike than 'Arrows' - 'The Pink Ribbons' anyone?
(i) What was wrong with the old one?
(ii) Did some 'Brand imagineeer' say 'That's soooooooooo 1908s, we need to bring you into the Noughties'?
and be thankful they didn't change the name to something more PC and warlike than 'Arrows' - 'The Pink Ribbons' anyone?
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Southeast USA
I'm hesitant to wade into this, as I am not a member of the armed forces, and never have been. However, I am a member of that group that is frequently accused of not caring about the forces; the British Public. I do care about my country's armed forces, and about the poor state they have been forced into by the Powers That Be. I am also a resident of the USA, where I see a much greater level of public support for the military.
From this viewpoint I wold like to make an observation. While I know that the British military has been treated very poorly by recent governments and cannot imagine what it must be like to go through that decline in person, I must say that if you expect the public to support you more you really should at least try to come across as a bit less cynical yourselves, at least in public forums.
The way you are carrying on about a minor change to the paint scheme of a PR tool you would think Gordon Brown himself had come to your doors demanding a kidney. The level of public support between the UK/US is often brought up in this forum, well the other side of that coin is that you don't hear the US military constantly complaining about every little thing. After a while it becomes less an endearing foible of the British Tommy and more like whinging.
The things you people in uniform do make me proud to be British, and God knows you have earned the right to a grumble, but good grief people, every little change isn't a conspiracy against you.
Soapbox........Stowed/secure
From this viewpoint I wold like to make an observation. While I know that the British military has been treated very poorly by recent governments and cannot imagine what it must be like to go through that decline in person, I must say that if you expect the public to support you more you really should at least try to come across as a bit less cynical yourselves, at least in public forums.
The way you are carrying on about a minor change to the paint scheme of a PR tool you would think Gordon Brown himself had come to your doors demanding a kidney. The level of public support between the UK/US is often brought up in this forum, well the other side of that coin is that you don't hear the US military constantly complaining about every little thing. After a while it becomes less an endearing foible of the British Tommy and more like whinging.
The things you people in uniform do make me proud to be British, and God knows you have earned the right to a grumble, but good grief people, every little change isn't a conspiracy against you.
Soapbox........Stowed/secure
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,343
Likes: 116
From: UK
BigBusDriver
Thanks for the support. I think that this is entirely indicative of Government spin - money for shiney new logos and a dedicated transport aircraft to ferry their lordships around the Middle East in 5*plus accomodation; no money to get RnR transport aircraft for the guys who are fighting hand-to-hand in the Sangin and Gereshk Valleys (I'm talking about the Army "brown jobs"). It took me 3 days to get to Al Udeid via the RAF's fragile air transport system from Brize - I nearly booked my own £200odd flight to Dohar out of my own money because I was getting sooo very p!ssed off. However, I wasn't waiting to go home for my 7 days with my wife and family like the poor souls were awaiting my aircraft in Al Udeid. Maybe now you realise the malice in our sentiments?
Finally, this is just the thin edge of the wedge. Politicians claim expenses for just about anything and are relatively unaudited, if I buy anything over £5 during the day I have to provide receipts - then at the same time they will trust me to authorise the flight of a very expensive aeroplane - WTF Over...
If you want to learn more then look over the rest of the forum - the trust has gone and there are many people who are using up their good-will at an alarming pace.
Sorry about the rant, but you did ask...
LJ
Thanks for the support. I think that this is entirely indicative of Government spin - money for shiney new logos and a dedicated transport aircraft to ferry their lordships around the Middle East in 5*plus accomodation; no money to get RnR transport aircraft for the guys who are fighting hand-to-hand in the Sangin and Gereshk Valleys (I'm talking about the Army "brown jobs"). It took me 3 days to get to Al Udeid via the RAF's fragile air transport system from Brize - I nearly booked my own £200odd flight to Dohar out of my own money because I was getting sooo very p!ssed off. However, I wasn't waiting to go home for my 7 days with my wife and family like the poor souls were awaiting my aircraft in Al Udeid. Maybe now you realise the malice in our sentiments?
Finally, this is just the thin edge of the wedge. Politicians claim expenses for just about anything and are relatively unaudited, if I buy anything over £5 during the day I have to provide receipts - then at the same time they will trust me to authorise the flight of a very expensive aeroplane - WTF Over...
If you want to learn more then look over the rest of the forum - the trust has gone and there are many people who are using up their good-will at an alarming pace.
Sorry about the rant, but you did ask...
LJ
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: inside the train looking onto the platform.
will it solve anything
will the reds solve the middle easts problems by doing a few airshows? I think not. good on them for getting a jolly before Xmas but I wonder how many hangers on are travelling with them. Shouldnt that fact that we cant provide a Herc and have had to rely on the americans, tell them and the powers that be, that we are a bit stretched at the moment and it probably isnt the best use of financial resources (Rates/JPA/Fuel)
Or is it in a bid to get BAE some more dodgy contracts or to regain favour in the UAE.
As I said good on them but in the grand scheme of Defence Diplomacy cant think it will pay a large dividend.
Or is it in a bid to get BAE some more dodgy contracts or to regain favour in the UAE.
As I said good on them but in the grand scheme of Defence Diplomacy cant think it will pay a large dividend.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 375
Likes: 6
From: with the wife
BBC East Midlands Today have just done a piece on the "new scheme". In my own humble opinion as a non-flyer I have to say it looks ..well... tacky.(I'm being tactful).
The company I now work for paid 3 million quid in a re-branding exercise, justification for which produced a bucket full of advertising agency gobbledy-gook. The customers' response was "Why change it? What was wrong with the old style"? Done properly, re-branding can look good and it does improve the customers reaction and ups the sales; done badly, it leaves the organisation open to ridicule.
I think the Reds latest effort falls into the latter category. As my old teacher would say "1/10 - must try harder".
The company I now work for paid 3 million quid in a re-branding exercise, justification for which produced a bucket full of advertising agency gobbledy-gook. The customers' response was "Why change it? What was wrong with the old style"? Done properly, re-branding can look good and it does improve the customers reaction and ups the sales; done badly, it leaves the organisation open to ridicule.
I think the Reds latest effort falls into the latter category. As my old teacher would say "1/10 - must try harder".
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,304
Likes: 1
From: @exRAF_Al
Big bus driver,
I don't think its so much a conspiracy; more people getting fed up with superficial and counterproductive rot being catered for, rather than issues of importance. And catered for badly at that.
I was chatting with a SNCO tonight, who has done almost 30 years service, and he was sitting in a slum. On deployment somewhere? No, his room in the SNCO and WOs Mess. Where are the priorities? The fact that this is the blind leading the blind must be the most disspiriting thing of all. And of course, it was done by a civvy.
It can have no reason, other than some pillock needing to get his name noticed on some loose minute about it. The RAF continues to be sold out, from within. Why on earth was there no one of integrity and balls to say 'Hang on. A) Why is money being wasted when we tell the troops there is no money? B) And why is it being done in such a crass and useless manner?'.
Do you think that the Royal Navy would allow 'The Royal Navy' to be splashed down the side of HMS Victory? No, because we all know who it belongs to.
I don't think its so much a conspiracy; more people getting fed up with superficial and counterproductive rot being catered for, rather than issues of importance. And catered for badly at that.
I was chatting with a SNCO tonight, who has done almost 30 years service, and he was sitting in a slum. On deployment somewhere? No, his room in the SNCO and WOs Mess. Where are the priorities? The fact that this is the blind leading the blind must be the most disspiriting thing of all. And of course, it was done by a civvy.
It can have no reason, other than some pillock needing to get his name noticed on some loose minute about it. The RAF continues to be sold out, from within. Why on earth was there no one of integrity and balls to say 'Hang on. A) Why is money being wasted when we tell the troops there is no money? B) And why is it being done in such a crass and useless manner?'.
Do you think that the Royal Navy would allow 'The Royal Navy' to be splashed down the side of HMS Victory? No, because we all know who it belongs to.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: England
Talking about tacky & waste of money.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuisT_is4NA