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Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Threads closing suspiciously 2?

Old 10th Jan 2007, 14:42
  #1 (permalink)  
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Threads closing suspiciously 2?

Rob
I am concerned by your statement below, were you in a bad mood this morning?

Aviation forums
Server totally overloaded
Aviation threads stayed - our choice. PPRuNe's worth exactly what you'd paid for it. We don't do PM's we have 130,000+ registered users to look after while flying the line. Secondary duties you see.
Don't like it? Vote hard with your feet. The service will improve for the rest. We choose to run an aviation forum for military folk. It's your choice whether you come or not. It's our choice what apears because we are paying for it not you. It really is that simple.
Regards
Rob
__________________
Regards from the Towers
Rob. This site now has an intrinsic value. That is clear from the number of banner adverts that appear, and at around 2000 for 3 months per advert, there is a calculatable value to the site. This site has that value, and the interest of advertisers because it has 130000 users.

The users here spend their time also, sometimes writing lengthy submissions which are censored or erased without warning/comment when they do not appear to be transgressing the site rules. Your post displays a complete lack of customer care. You guys that started this know the site has a value and that is because of the client base, i.e we the users. Your post smacks of the fact that you dont give a s**t. May i suggest that if the site takes up so much of your time, and not only do you not get paid for it, but you yourself are paying for the privilage then the best business solution would be for you to stop.

This site has grown to be the best, most used aviation forum in the world. It is generally frequented by intelligent people who have helped (by their contributions) make PPRuNe the success that it is. If the subject matter was not as interesting and as varied as it is, the site would not be successful.

You guys came up with the original idea, which was great, but the success of the site i.e the attraction for commercial advertisers is the fact it has an audience of 130000 people (thats us the contributors) interested in aviation, a captive audience.

For you to suggest that people clear off if they dont like it smacks of a complete lack of understanding of the relationship between the site, the advertisers and the users. The users that have made your site the success that it is deserve more from you than the rantings of a grumpy old man at 7am. Discussions on Somalia, Iran/Israel, Iraq deserve a lot more server time than 'The finish the sentance off thread'!

If you're suffering from lack of server space, try asking your members, if you are not running a commercial venture, it is amazing who has what out there. I have a very big server, want some?

Guess this will be on for less than an hour before it is erased/locked.
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Old 10th Jan 2007, 15:20
  #2 (permalink)  
Roghead
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Great sentiments Tigs2. "Sanitisation of Mil Forums" on the same subject started at 1056 today and so far still alive. Suggest we keep all comments on the one thread to maximise our opinions (matters not which) as I suspect asking Rob to combine the threads may be a bridge too far.

Oops! Spoke too soon. "Sanitisation" thread closed. Why's that?

Last edited by Roghead; 10th Jan 2007 at 16:32.
 
Old 10th Jan 2007, 16:39
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: UK
Posts: 7,737
Tigs,

You've made a series of assumptions in the above post. They may well appear logical to you. They appeared logical to the guys in 2001 who claimed our database of addresses had a base value of several million.
We weren't interested then and we aren't interested now.

You guys aren't customers. Don't kid yourself. You are users.

We don't give a stuff regarding advertisers. No sales people - none. We got suckered into that sales thing a couple of years ago and ended up with the site being run to pay the sales people. I've very glad to say we fired them a year ago. Advertisers now come to us under our terms. No pay by the click. No forum targeting. No one on commission. We set a price - they pay it or the ad doesn't appear. Just in case you can't read between the lines we don't like ads - they are a pain in the arse. Get the site back down to 10,000 users and we can do without ads like we used to.

We do our own thing and as the Australians and Jetblasters have discovered we have no qualms simply shutting down a forum until folks get the point.

Military Aviation threads stay. Charity threads go. The political testiculation goes. We put our time and money into running a set of aviation forums for the past ten years. We do not care what you think. Please consider that sentence carefully. We run the site for our pleasure not yours. You want to play political strategist or polemicist go elsewhere.

That is our choice and not yours. Please understand this. We don't care, we simply don't care if you use the site or not. As I said at the outset your assumptions are wrong. This isn't a commercial site, we've never borrowed a penny to fund it. We have no need to 'stroke' customers and advertisers because both come to us.

And so to those assumptions again Tigs - by everything you understand regarding commercial reality and customer service this site should soon be a wasteland. However, a search on my posts will find a 6 year history of taking the cyberbaseball bat to forums. The tumbleweed has still not appeared despite such long term lack of respect by Danny and I. It is extremely annoying but it is our site, it is private and while we thoroughly enjoy the pissed off going on the blanket with protest posts and threads there is only one thing to remember - the house always wins.

Sum up: Charity threads get chopped, non service threads go, political science wankfests for apprentice leader writers go. It's a huge internet out there and loads of other places are desperate for non aviation stuff.

Regards again,
Rob
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Old 10th Jan 2007, 16:46
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 81
Okay then...

...Rob, if that is the attitude in PPRuNe Towers I'll walk. Please cancel registration.

Bye

Nice job Tigs 2 (where's my refund!!)
Radar Muppet is offline  
Old 10th Jan 2007, 16:50
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
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Well there is always this forum for RAF (and I believe they don't mind others) flying chat.

Feed the goat.
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Old 10th Jan 2007, 17:03
  #6 (permalink)  
 
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Rob.

Quality post. Love it!

Are you ex mil?
I bet you give a spectacular [email protected]
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Old 10th Jan 2007, 17:07
  #7 (permalink)  
Alba
 
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Originally Posted by Tourist View Post
Rob.

Quality post. Love it!

Are you ex mil?
I bet you give a spectacular [email protected]
I agree, it's their train set at the end of the day
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Old 10th Jan 2007, 17:26
  #8 (permalink)  
 
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Ouch! That's us told! It would have been nice to let us know in a polite manner beforehand, rather than rip the rug out without warning, but I guess you don't have to be polite if you don't give a toss.

Hey ho. Best take ourselves elsewhere...
glum is offline  
Old 10th Jan 2007, 17:29
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 67
Regular visitors will have noted that the mil forum often has as many or (on many occasions) more visitors than the top-level R&N forum - perhaps the "culling" should take place elsewhere! If indeed it is really necessary.

The hardline attitude obviously doesn't settle well with seasoned mil ppruners - perhaps it's time for another forum on the huge WWW, possibly incorporating a civvy section?

Osbo (civvy, BTW)
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Old 10th Jan 2007, 17:45
  #10 (permalink)  
 
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'PPrune Tower, continuing en-route good day...Air Force, roll e-goat go'
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Old 10th Jan 2007, 18:21
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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I may be missing something, but has the Jaguar finale thread gone????

Why?????

someone remove the ? from this keyboard please
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Old 10th Jan 2007, 18:38
  #12 (permalink)  
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Rob
Well you have certainly stepped off the fence.
You guys aren't customers. Don't kid yourself. You are users.
I think i used the term users in my post. I commented on the lack of customer care concerning your comments about us 'Users'. If advertisers are such a pain in the a**e i am sure they will be delighted to know your feelings for the money they chip in every month, and if they are such a distraction do with them what you do with us and just close them down, don't have them, it all sounds like too much stress. I am not on the political bandwaggon, and neither are the others on the Mil forum who want to discuss Somalia, Iran etc etc. These subjects affect Mil Aviators, there are US Aircraft involved in Somalia as we speak.
I hope you are more 'User' focused when you fly your 737, or are they fee paying customers, does that make a difference? A bit like your 'Users' who pay to subscribe maybe? I suggest if you dont wish your 'Users' to be rude on these forums, you practise what you preach.
Tigs2 is offline  
Old 10th Jan 2007, 18:46
  #13 (permalink)  
 
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Sam, if you're talking about the 'Celebration of the Jaguar Retirement' thread, it was deleted by the thread's originator - a facility which is available to all users for any threads they may start.

While I've not been involved in any of the recent housekeeping issues in Mil Aircrew, regular users will be aware of the increasing incidence of 'Server too Busy' messages recently. This is a function of the increasing number of users - not necessarily registered ones - and the extra demands of the latest board software and some of the add-on tools that have been installed for your convenience. STB messages are not, despite the suspicions of some, an editorial tool!

PPRuNe runs on a couple of very flash - and expensive - servers, but even they are becoming overwhelmed by the load PPRuNe places on them. One way of reducing that load is to slim down the archives, much of which is of no particular value. I understand that there may well be some reductions to the number of forums, though it's unlikely that Mil Aircrew is at any risk!
There is the option of acquiring more or larger servers, but that costs serious dosh - and means that we would be chasing ever-greater user numbers and the advertising to pay for them. As none of us is without a life outside PPRuNe, that's not an attractive option. So the expansion of PPRuNe's user-base may well be at an end...

Rob may be a bit direct for the tastes of some of you, but you must realise and accept that you are here as the guests of Rob and Danny. Those of you who have purchased Personal Titles make a valuable and valued contribution to PPRuNe's running costs, but I'm afraid that does not imply any significant say into how the place is run - though, and this may surprise you, we do listen and take note of well-thought-through criticism whenever it appears on the site. Of course, those of you who pay nothing towards the running costs of the site can have no complaint when things are done here with which you disagree.

Scroggs
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Old 10th Jan 2007, 18:58
  #14 (permalink)  
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Scroggs
would it help alleviate some of the server issues if the site could only be perused by registered users, rather than currently, capacity being taken up by unregistered users. Some other web forums use this system.
Tigs2 is offline  
Old 10th Jan 2007, 19:04
  #15 (permalink)  
 
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...and suggest that those users are all indeed "military aircrew".
Chris Kebab is offline  
Old 10th Jan 2007, 19:09
  #16 (permalink)  
 
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Well said guys. As someone who runs several sites, I am wholeheartedly in agreement that if you pay the bill, you get to decide what goes on there!

Sod e-goat, I'm staying here!

(and one day I'll open my wallet to pay for a personal title )
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Old 10th Jan 2007, 19:12
  #17 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chris Kebab View Post
...and suggest that those users are all indeed "military aircrew".
Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.

Chris - kindly note the information at the head of this forum.

On the general subject of PPRuNe and the people who run it for their own pleasure/purpose, well if they want to take their ball home and tell users to bu&&er off elsewhere, so be it. Can't complain at that really, but...........
Lyneham Lad is online now  
Old 10th Jan 2007, 19:12
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1,360
Scroggs,
Thanks for the balanced and very polite response to this thorny issue. I fully agree with you when you say trimming archives etc will free up server space but what we have seen lately is the unannounced closing of some of the liveliest threads that are voicing opinions that are completely in place within this aircrew forum.

I notice there are still 3 pages on the Mil Aircrew forum so maybe some of the old stuff should be removed/culled before the newer stuff which would help alleviate the suspicions that it's plain old censorship at work here........just my humble thoughts.
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Old 10th Jan 2007, 19:13
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Green and pleasant land
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Originally Posted by PPRuNe Towers View Post
Tigs,
You've made a series of assumptions in the above post. They may well appear logical to you. They appeared logical to the guys in 2001 who claimed our database of addresses had a base value of several million.
We weren't interested then and we aren't interested now.
You guys aren't customers. Don't kid yourself. You are users.
We don't give a stuff regarding advertisers. No sales people - none. We got suckered into that sales thing a couple of years ago and ended up with the site being run to pay the sales people. I've very glad to say we fired them a year ago. Advertisers now come to us under our terms. No pay by the click. No forum targeting. No one on commission. We set a price - they pay it or the ad doesn't appear. Just in case you can't read between the lines we don't like ads - they are a pain in the arse. Get the site back down to 10,000 users and we can do without ads like we used to.
We do our own thing and as the Australians and Jetblasters have discovered we have no qualms simply shutting down a forum until folks get the point.
Military Aviation threads stay. Charity threads go. The political testiculation goes. We put our time and money into running a set of aviation forums for the past ten years. We do not care what you think. Please consider that sentence carefully. We run the site for our pleasure not yours. You want to play political strategist or polemicist go elsewhere.
That is our choice and not yours. Please understand this. We don't care, we simply don't care if you use the site or not. As I said at the outset your assumptions are wrong. This isn't a commercial site, we've never borrowed a penny to fund it. We have no need to 'stroke' customers and advertisers because both come to us.
And so to those assumptions again Tigs - by everything you understand regarding commercial reality and customer service this site should soon be a wasteland. However, a search on my posts will find a 6 year history of taking the cyberbaseball bat to forums. The tumbleweed has still not appeared despite such long term lack of respect by Danny and I. It is extremely annoying but it is our site, it is private and while we thoroughly enjoy the pissed off going on the blanket with protest posts and threads there is only one thing to remember - the house always wins.
Sum up: Charity threads get chopped, non service threads go, political science wankfests for apprentice leader writers go. It's a huge internet out there and loads of other places are desperate for non aviation stuff.
Regards again,
Rob
Rob,
What a truly amazing post. A fantastic insight into your regard for advertisers, your 'users' and the whole aviation community. (Which in case you hadn't realised, goes far, far beyond a few 'Professional pilots', who are never happier than whinging about their awful T & C's). Actually, for 'regard', please read 'stupendous contempt'.
I have saved this page as an example of exactly how a media owner should NOT treat their audience and, if you are unlucky, we will use it in our next issue, as an example of the contempt shown by some media owners towards their readers and advertisers.
For what it's worth, I will add that PPRuNe didn't have either the courtesy or decency to even acknowledge, let alone reply to my memo /application to assist with advertising sales (a subject I am MORE then familiar with) on a basis which wouldn't have left you open to anything. As it was, it sounds like your ego got the better of you and you got taken for a ride (you mug) .
Frankly mate, your attitude sucks. You wish to play god with threads, which is your perogative, but you have played the 'innocent' card once too often.
'We do not care what you think': Pretty much sums it up I'm afraid.
I DO care what my readers and advertisers think and that is what separates us.
Adios.
CS

Last edited by cargosales; 10th Jan 2007 at 19:22. Reason: Grammar
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Old 10th Jan 2007, 19:19
  #20 (permalink)  
brickhistory
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Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.



If only...................................
 

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