Future Carrier (Including Costs)
Joined: Apr 2020
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From: Hampshire
Navy Lookout has reported another nearly 7-month CASD patrol, this time by Vanguard - she was laid down 39 years ago last month and won't be replaced for at least another seven. I can only have sympathy for the crews and concern about the effects on retention and potentially recruitment.
This submarine left Faslane in March and has almost matched the record for the longest RN patrol, an extraordinary amount of time for the crew to spend underwater. This boat was relieved in the last few days by another boat that sailed last week after conducting a pre-patrol exercise. If this pattern continues, her crew won’t see their homes again until March 2026.
The length of patrols has been rising sharply over the last few years, at least the last nine deterrent patrols have all exceeded five months in duration. Today’s homecoming is yet another fine achievement by the crew; the sacrifices that they and their families are called on to make are immense.
Royal Navy Vanguard-class submarine comes home after 203-day patrol
In what is becoming the new normal, an RN submarine returned to Faslane today after another lengthy patrol lasting more than six months, maintaining the nation’s nuclear deterrent.This submarine left Faslane in March and has almost matched the record for the longest RN patrol, an extraordinary amount of time for the crew to spend underwater. This boat was relieved in the last few days by another boat that sailed last week after conducting a pre-patrol exercise. If this pattern continues, her crew won’t see their homes again until March 2026.
The length of patrols has been rising sharply over the last few years, at least the last nine deterrent patrols have all exceeded five months in duration. Today’s homecoming is yet another fine achievement by the crew; the sacrifices that they and their families are called on to make are immense.
Joined: Apr 2020
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From: Hampshire
Another capability gap has been nearly been filled with the declaration of IOC for Sea Venom as reported on the RN website. Sea Skua was withdrawn in March 2017 - I have just been reading the first hand accounts of its successful use in during Op Granby, and less successfully when rushed into service during Op Corporate.
A significant milestone towards arming Royal Navy maritime attack helicopters with ship-busting missiles has been achieved.Initial Operating Capability (IOC) has been met for the anti-ship Sea Venom missile, meaning it can now be deployed with Wildcat helicopters on front-line duties.
A Wildcat can carry up to four Sea Venoms, giving it the ability to strike multiple targets in a single sortie or unleashing a salvo against one target.
It carries enough destructive power to target larger warships – like corvettes and patrol ships – while the Wildcat also carries the lightweight Martlet missile for taking out boat swarms and smaller vessels.
IOC was achieved during Operation Highmast – the Royal Navy’s global mission to the Indo-Pacific led by flagship HMS Prince of Wales.
Four Wildcats from 815 Naval Air Squadron are armed with Sea Venom on the deployment, spread across the Carrier Strike Group on carrier HMS Prince of Wales, destroyer HMS Dauntless and Norwegian frigate HNoMS Roald Amundsen.
Commanding Officer of 815 Naval Air Squadron, Commander James Woods, said: “The introduction of Sea Venom is a step-change in our combat power.
“It delivers a lethal combination of precision, reach, and flexibility that allows us to strike decisively against a wide spectrum of threats in the maritime, coastal, and land domains.
“Most importantly, it gives us the ability to neutralise those threats at range. This is a transformational capability for the Fleet Air Arm, and ensures that we are ready to defend and protect NATO and Allied interests at home and abroad.”
Sea Venom provides the long-range armament of the Future Anti-Surface Guided Weapon (FASGW) programme, with the short-range capability delivered by the Martlet missile, which is already in service.
It is an advanced weapon, which can utilise an ‘operator-in-the-loop’, who can make real-time adjustments mid-flight to control the trajectory of the missile.
A Wildcat can carry up to four Sea Venoms, giving it the ability to strike multiple targets in a single sortie or unleashing a salvo against one target.
It carries enough destructive power to target larger warships – like corvettes and patrol ships – while the Wildcat also carries the lightweight Martlet missile for taking out boat swarms and smaller vessels.
IOC was achieved during Operation Highmast – the Royal Navy’s global mission to the Indo-Pacific led by flagship HMS Prince of Wales.
Four Wildcats from 815 Naval Air Squadron are armed with Sea Venom on the deployment, spread across the Carrier Strike Group on carrier HMS Prince of Wales, destroyer HMS Dauntless and Norwegian frigate HNoMS Roald Amundsen.
Commanding Officer of 815 Naval Air Squadron, Commander James Woods, said: “The introduction of Sea Venom is a step-change in our combat power.
“It delivers a lethal combination of precision, reach, and flexibility that allows us to strike decisively against a wide spectrum of threats in the maritime, coastal, and land domains.
“Most importantly, it gives us the ability to neutralise those threats at range. This is a transformational capability for the Fleet Air Arm, and ensures that we are ready to defend and protect NATO and Allied interests at home and abroad.”
Sea Venom provides the long-range armament of the Future Anti-Surface Guided Weapon (FASGW) programme, with the short-range capability delivered by the Martlet missile, which is already in service.
It is an advanced weapon, which can utilise an ‘operator-in-the-loop’, who can make real-time adjustments mid-flight to control the trajectory of the missile.
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Australia OZ
frostchamber provided the return date of 10 Sep whilst the rest period: UK F-35 Full Operational Capability Path Faces Scrutiny | Aviation Week Network
"... was grounded in Kagoshima, Japan, for 30 days...."
"... was grounded in Kagoshima, Japan, for 30 days...."
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 129
From: Here
Navy Lookout has reported another nearly 7-month CASD patrol, this time by Vanguard - she was laid down 39 years ago last month and won't be replaced for at least another seven. I can only have sympathy for the crews and concern about the effects on retention and potentially recruitment.
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,978
Likes: 376
From: Hampshire
My understanding is there is one boat, Victorious, in the process of a LIFEX refit at Guz (she arrived in June 2023, and moved in to Number 9 Dock in the following February -Vanguard's took 3 1/2 years), another boat went into the Faslane lift in January, which leaves two; I suspect the problem lies in the fact the whole class was originally supposed to be out of service in 2024 - that coupled with never correcting the first Wilson government's error in cancelling Ramillies to give the flexibility and additional redundancy of a fifth boat. We would be in an even bigger mess if the Major government hadn't finally taken the decision to order Vengeance.
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Portsmouth
My understanding is there is one boat, Victorious, in the process of a LIFEX refit at Guz (she arrived in June 2023, and moved in to Number 9 Dock in the following February -Vanguard's took 3 1/2 years), another boat went into the Faslane lift in January, which leaves two; I suspect the problem lies in the fact the whole class was originally supposed to be out of service in 2024 - that coupled with never correcting the first Wilson government's error in cancelling Ramillies to give the flexibility and additional redundancy of a fifth boat. We would be in an even bigger mess if the Major government hadn't finally taken the decision to order Vengeance.
1. Vanguard had a completely unscheduled and unplanned refuelling due to issues found at Vulcan (subsequently found to be unnecessary), but doing so threw the entire programme into chaos. Vic will NOT undergo said refuelling so shouldn't take anywhere near as long.
2. A combination of the shiplift having been knackered (apparently) and a general shortage of ILS, which means that if any of the three not in deep upkeep have an issue, it becomes a big issue.
All of which ends up on the poor sundodgers doing the 200 day patrols - and we know where that leads eventually.
Joined: Oct 2018
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From: Ferrara
My understanding is there is one boat, Victorious, in the process of a LIFEX refit at Guz (she arrived in June 2023, and moved in to Number 9 Dock in the following February -Vanguard's took 3 1/2 years), another boat went into the Faslane lift in January, which leaves two; I suspect the problem lies in the fact the whole class was originally supposed to be out of service in 2024 - that coupled with never correcting the first Wilson government's error in cancelling Ramillies to give the flexibility and additional redundancy of a fifth boat. We would be in an even bigger mess if the Major government hadn't finally taken the decision to order Vengeance.
What chance they'll learn from their mistakes and order a 5th Dreadnought? unlikely to be called "Barham" of "Malaya" and we have a "Queen Elizabeth " (although she may have been sold by the time the Successor programme reaches a 5th boat) - how about "Nelson" or "Rodney"
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,978
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From: Hampshire
N_a_B, brainfade on my department, 3 1/2 years was of course the plan (that went wrong by a factor of 2). However if the question of ordering the successor class, and the provision of fit for purpose maintenance facilities had been handled at the right times the issues may never have arisen, I believe back in 2007 the planned post LIFEX OSDs were Van. 2022, Vic. 2024, Vig. 2026, and Ven. 2029.
Asturias, I would put the chances of a 5th D-boat at zero. My choice, however, would be HMS Hawke
as its about time a capital vessel was named after the great man. (Of course Agincourt is available.)
Asturias, I would put the chances of a 5th D-boat at zero. My choice, however, would be HMS Hawke
as its about time a capital vessel was named after the great man. (Of course Agincourt is available.)
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Glorious Devon
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,978
Likes: 376
From: Hampshire
PoW and accompanying vessels' crews having a run ashore in Goa.
I'm sure they will all be behaving well.
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news/20...le-india-visit
A more informative article here https://news.usni.org/2025/10/07/u-k-indian-navy-carrier-strike-groups-conduct-first-ever-dual-carrier-operations
I'm sure they will all be behaving well.
For the first time Royal Navy flagship HMS Prince of Wales worked alongside India’s aircraft carrier INS Vikrant – curtain-raiser to a high-profile visit to the Commonwealth nation.The British warship’s F-35 Lightning stealth fighters jousted in the skies of the Indian Ocean with Vikrant’s MiG 29K jets before lining up for a flypast and photoshoot.
The aerial activity was the highlight of the interaction between the two navies, Exercise Konkan, ahead of a visit to Mumbai and Goa by the ships of the UK Carrier Strike Group which begins today.
Konkan is a regular workout involving the two Commonwealth navies going back more than two decades, occasionally held in UK waters when Indian warships visit, more typically off the coast which gives the exercise its name when Royal Navy vessels are deployed to the Indian Ocean.
The two carrier groups worked side-by-side for four days. As well as fast-jet operations, the forces carried out a combined submarine hunt as an Indian Navy boat tried to evade detection – not just by warships and helicopters, such as the Merlin Mk2s embarked on HMS Prince of Wales and frigate HMS Richmond, but also P8 Neptune maritime patrol aircraft.
“Exercise Konkan was a valuable opportunity to operate with our Indian Navy partners. It’s been fantastic to work alongside my Indian opposite numbers to plan this complex exercise,” said Lieutenant Iain Reid, a staff officer aboard HMS Prince of Wales.
The Carrier Strike Group’s Commander Commodore James Blackmore added: “Exercise Konkan showed the increasing strength of our partnership with the Indian Navy.
“Training together not only deepens our cooperation, but also reflects the UK’s enduring commitment to security and stability in the Indo-Pacific.”
His force splits for the visit to India: the carrier will be spending several days in Goa, while the spotlight largely falls on Plymouth-based frigate HMS Richmond – the task group’s shield against hostile submarines – which is visiting Mumbai.
The frigate’s arrival coincided with Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer’s visit to the city to meet his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi to strengthen business and cultural ties between the two nations.
The aerial activity was the highlight of the interaction between the two navies, Exercise Konkan, ahead of a visit to Mumbai and Goa by the ships of the UK Carrier Strike Group which begins today.
Konkan is a regular workout involving the two Commonwealth navies going back more than two decades, occasionally held in UK waters when Indian warships visit, more typically off the coast which gives the exercise its name when Royal Navy vessels are deployed to the Indian Ocean.
The two carrier groups worked side-by-side for four days. As well as fast-jet operations, the forces carried out a combined submarine hunt as an Indian Navy boat tried to evade detection – not just by warships and helicopters, such as the Merlin Mk2s embarked on HMS Prince of Wales and frigate HMS Richmond, but also P8 Neptune maritime patrol aircraft.
“Exercise Konkan was a valuable opportunity to operate with our Indian Navy partners. It’s been fantastic to work alongside my Indian opposite numbers to plan this complex exercise,” said Lieutenant Iain Reid, a staff officer aboard HMS Prince of Wales.
The Carrier Strike Group’s Commander Commodore James Blackmore added: “Exercise Konkan showed the increasing strength of our partnership with the Indian Navy.
“Training together not only deepens our cooperation, but also reflects the UK’s enduring commitment to security and stability in the Indo-Pacific.”
His force splits for the visit to India: the carrier will be spending several days in Goa, while the spotlight largely falls on Plymouth-based frigate HMS Richmond – the task group’s shield against hostile submarines – which is visiting Mumbai.
The frigate’s arrival coincided with Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer’s visit to the city to meet his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi to strengthen business and cultural ties between the two nations.
A more informative article here https://news.usni.org/2025/10/07/u-k-indian-navy-carrier-strike-groups-conduct-first-ever-dual-carrier-operations
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,978
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From: Hampshire
The UK's Carrier Strike Group forms up with the Indian Navy, HMS Prince of Wales (left) and INS Vikrant (front) are joined by other ships of the task group, JS Akebono and Indian Naval Ships.
Crown Copyright 2025 (Courtesy of LPhot Henry Parks)
Crown Copyright 2025 (Courtesy of LPhot Henry Parks)
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,967
Likes: 100
From: Devon
The two carrier groups worked side-by-side for four days. As well as fast-jet operations, the forces carried out a combined submarine hunt as an Indian Navy boat tried to evade detection – not just by warships and helicopters, such as the Merlin Mk2s embarked on HMS Prince of Wales and frigate HMS Richmond, but also P8 Neptune maritime patrol aircraft...
Coordinated ASW - definitely a carrier role as you need as many ASW helicopters as possible and this is most effectively achieved with a large deck, as noted on a thread dedicated to the carrier and sea control.
Coordinated ASW - definitely a carrier role as you need as many ASW helicopters as possible and this is most effectively achieved with a large deck, as noted on a thread dedicated to the carrier and sea control.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 536
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From: Overseas
Average. It is less capable than USN carriers due to the ski jump limitation and limited air wing. Probably less capable than France, but that's an unpopular opinion and I'm sure the fish-heads will be along to debate that soon. China's boats, although new, will very soon outclass the UK ships on paper, and probably in reality too.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Peripatetic
Makes the Astute fleet record look good.....
HMCS Corner Brook returned home after a two month deployment earlier this week.
It was her first deployment since she ran aground on the West Coast of Vancouver Island 14 years ago.
It was her first deployment since she ran aground on the West Coast of Vancouver Island 14 years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_C...an_alterations
...On 4 June 2011 the submarine ran aground in Nootka Sound during manoeuvres off Vancouver Island. The submarine collided with the sea floor in 45 metres (148 ft) of water while travelling at a speed of 5.9 knots (11 km/h). The collision opened a 2-metre (6 ft 7 in) hole in the submarine's bow. Two submariners were slightly injured.
After the grounding incident civilian and military submariners began pre-maintenance work on the submarine, in the expectation of an extended maintenance program. At the time, the process, length and cost of the work was unknown due to existing contracts.... In February 2012, post-collision photos of the dry-docked submarine were published, showing extensive damage to the bow; the media also cited unofficial sources, saying the pressure hull may be damaged beyond repair.
As of July 2014, Corner Brook began her extended docking work period (EDWP) that was expected to take until 2017 to complete.
On 1 April 2019 the submarine, still in drydock at CFB Esquimalt, caught fire. The fire was extinguished but the cause was unknown.
The vessel was intended to return to service in mid-2020. However, in a March 2020 pressure test of the submarine's ballast tanks, the test team attempted to empty the tanks more quickly using pressured air, leading to over pressurization and a rupture.
The submarine was fully repaired/upgraded and returned to active service on 2 April 2025.
The submarine is expected to remain in service for another nine years following the refit......
...On 4 June 2011 the submarine ran aground in Nootka Sound during manoeuvres off Vancouver Island. The submarine collided with the sea floor in 45 metres (148 ft) of water while travelling at a speed of 5.9 knots (11 km/h). The collision opened a 2-metre (6 ft 7 in) hole in the submarine's bow. Two submariners were slightly injured.
After the grounding incident civilian and military submariners began pre-maintenance work on the submarine, in the expectation of an extended maintenance program. At the time, the process, length and cost of the work was unknown due to existing contracts.... In February 2012, post-collision photos of the dry-docked submarine were published, showing extensive damage to the bow; the media also cited unofficial sources, saying the pressure hull may be damaged beyond repair.
As of July 2014, Corner Brook began her extended docking work period (EDWP) that was expected to take until 2017 to complete.
On 1 April 2019 the submarine, still in drydock at CFB Esquimalt, caught fire. The fire was extinguished but the cause was unknown.
The vessel was intended to return to service in mid-2020. However, in a March 2020 pressure test of the submarine's ballast tanks, the test team attempted to empty the tanks more quickly using pressured air, leading to over pressurization and a rupture.
The submarine was fully repaired/upgraded and returned to active service on 2 April 2025.
The submarine is expected to remain in service for another nine years following the refit......