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Future Carrier (Including Costs)

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Future Carrier (Including Costs)

Old 22nd Jun 2021, 15:31
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More here
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/what...ets-look-like/

How will the drones be launched?

Earlier, we reported that the Ministry of Defence is currently seeking information on the potential for industry provide assisted launch and arrested recover systems for a range of air vehicles, which would be suitable to fit to a vessel within 3 – 5 years.
The Ministry of Defence add that it is looking to assess the availability of electromagnetic catapult, and arrestor wire systems for the launch and recovery of air vehicles.

While the Request for Information looks to assess the “availability of electromagnetic catapult and arrestor wire systems to launch aircraft” from a ship, words associated with the previous effort to explore converting the vessels to ‘CATOBAR’ in order to launch carrier variant F-35Cs, it shouldn’t be taken as indication that the Royal Navy are abandoning the short take off and vertical landing F-35Bs and returning to catapult launched fighters. On the contrary, they’re looking to augment the F-35Bs.

In fact, the upper and lower weight limits of the catapult and recovery system outlined aren’t enough to launch or recover any variant of the F-35 in normal conditions.

The launch and recovery options mentioned would be utilised for larger uncrewed aircraft as the armed forces begin to rely on them more and more in place of crewed platforms.

Anyway, on to the Request for Information itself.

“Potential supplier and interested parties are invited to provide information in relation to potential solutions which are sufficiently technically mature to be fitted to a suitable ship from 2023.”

According to the Request for Information, the Ministry of Defence have set out the following requirements.

“Potential arrestor solutions ideally should offer:
a. Max trap 47000lbs / 21318Kg
b. Min trap 11000lbs / 5000Kg
c. Energy damping method
d. Potential for energy reclamation

Potential catapult solutions ideally should offer:
a. Max launch weight 55000lbs / 24949Kg
b. Electrical power input required against launch cycle time.”

According to the Ministry of Defence, the intended outcomes of the Request for Information are as follows:

“a. Develop further MoD understanding of the different technologies and capabilities available in the market, both current and emerging.
b. Alignment of potential future MoD requirements with industry standards and processes for procurement of maritime un-crewed and autonomous capabilities; and,
c. Enable the Authority to develop a procurement strategy that will deliver best value for money for Defence.”

The Royal Navy say that the DEVELOP Directorate leads the development of the Royal Navy’s future warfighting capability and “acts as the platform for the through-life capability for all maritime capabilities in order to achieve the optimum mix of present and future warfighting technologies for a modern, global and ready Royal Navy”.

The Royal Navy is driving hard to introduce a range of un-crewed air vehicles and to “give wider options for the use of different air vehicles types within the Fleet”.
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Old 22nd Jun 2021, 18:34
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'specialist maritime Apache squadron' 656 complete fortnight on HMSPWLS

Although I thought this story was a welcome account of positive steps in HMSPWLS's progress through her workup I just couldn't hack the tone. She is now in the Baltic operating with 45 Commando Group.

(Three) "Apache warriors complete fortnight’s intense training on HMS Prince of Wales" - what is it with the Andrew's website that they can't use Apache in a headline without appending warriors - I am surprised the Woke Patrol haven't clamped down.

I'm not usually given to pushing the RN's puff pieces but amid the gushing tone and hyperbole (I nearly posted this in the Buccaneer comedy thread) there was a point of interest; There appears to be insufficient illumination on deck during night ops - assuming they were running under peacetime conditions. However, I assume the penultimate paragraph refers to various items from FOST's 'Thursday War ' menu (even if it was a Saturday).

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2021/june/22/20210622-apache-dawn

The emphasis of the squadron’s embarkation on the carrier was ensuring air and ground crew were used to operating at sea – and to train Prince of Wales’ air/air engineering departments in handling, moving, maintaining and launching/recovering the Apache as part of the carrier’s broader air group.
During the fortnight-long spell on the Portsmouth-based leviathan*, 656 Squadron shared the flight deck with RAF Chinooks, Royal Navy Merlins and, briefly, the first F-35 Lightning jets to land/take-off from HMS Prince of Wales.

The Army Air Corps fliers landed and took off 161 times, qualified one new pilot for maritime operations by day/night, while eight more regained or maintained their currency.
Instructing the aircrews was veteran Apache pilot Major Tony Thompson with 19 years in the cockpit. This was his seventh embarkation in a ship in five years and he says the Queen Elizabeth class is a challenge for pilots – despite a flight deck large enough to accommodate three football pitches.
“HMS Prince of Wales is a much larger ship to land on – but she’s also much darker,” Major Thompson added.

...
And if it’s tough for the crew in the cockpit, the Apache poses challenges for the Royal Navy aircraft handlers who guide it on to/off the deck and move the nine-tonne warbird around.
...
"For me, as a flight deck director, the Apache’s ability to be almost invisible in the dark makes marshalling and ground movement particularly difficult at night."
*apparently a medium sized aircraft carrier is a Leviathan.

Last edited by SLXOwft; 22nd Jun 2021 at 21:05. Reason: WEBF pointing out my idiocy
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Old 22nd Jun 2021, 19:48
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What makes you think she is in the Baltic? She is working up off the South Coast.

Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 22nd Jun 2021 at 20:17.
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Old 22nd Jun 2021, 20:57
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WEBF, I misread an @HMSPWLS retweet of an @RoyalMarines tweet re ops with L14 and the LRG as an @HMSPWLS tweet - seems I can't cope with anything more advanced than an Aldis and Morse these days.

My brain clearly hasn't recovered from the Type 31e is now the Inspiration Class announcement. I thought the other names three fine but using Formidable for an escort is worthy of the 19 & 78 thread, and if they wanted to resurrect Venturer couldn't they have renamed Agincourt or Agamemnon while they are on the stocks (like Ark Royal, Eagle and Hermes were). For those who don't know, the last Venturer (P68) was the only submarine to have sunk another one (U-864) when both were submerged.

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Old 23rd Jun 2021, 15:38
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
It looks like cats are back on the table.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/mod-...ith-catapults/
Oooohh, that sounds expensive.

I wonder what the 'plan B' is if it turns out not feasible/viable?
No U(C)AVs for the next 40 Years?
Sell/retire one of the two carriers and build a new CATOBAR?
Add a CATOBAR for UAVs?
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Old 29th Jun 2021, 16:36
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Russia deploys carrier-killer Kinzhal missile to Med as HMS Queen Elizabeth sails
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...ails-fljflnfxz

Russian fighter jets armed with a new hypersonic “aircraft carrier killer missile” have been sent to a base in Syria to monitor the Royal Navy’s HMS Queen Elizabeth strike force which is sailing in the eastern Mediterranean.

It is the first time Russia has deployed its Kinzhal hypersonic missileoverseas. It is claimed to be capable of flying at ten times the speed of sound (12,350kph or 7,670mph) and has a range of about 2,000km (1,250 miles).

The Kh-47M2 Kinzhal (Dagger) missile was one of the new generation of weapons highlighted by President Putin in 2019. He claimed that Russia was the first country to deploy a hypersonic weapon. The missile can be armed with a nuclear warhead.

It is being carried by two MiG-31K supersonic fighter jets dispatched to the Khmeimim airbase in Syria’s coastal province of Latakia. The aircraft, codenamed Foxhound by Nato, are participating in a Russian naval exercise in the same region as the Queen Elizabeth.

It’s the latest sign of Moscow adopting a high-profile stance towards Britain’s inaugural operational deployment of the Ł3.2 billion, 65,000-tonne carrier, which led to a confrontation in the Black Sea last week with HMS Defender, which is part of the carrier’s strike force. The two Foxhounds will monitor “the actions of the [Royal Navy] aircraft carrier group”, the Russians said.

A Russian ministry of defence video showed one of the Foxhounds armed with the Kinzhal hypersonic missile taking off from the base. Three Tu-22M3 Backfire-C strategic bombers are also at the Khmeimim airbase taking part in the same exercise in the eastern Mediterranean and can be armed with long-range cruise missiles.

HMS Queen Elizabeth, accompanied by two destroyers, two frigates, an Astute class nuclear-powered attack submarine and two support vessels, is on a 28-week maiden deployment which will take it to India, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and the South China Sea.

The incident in the Black Sea last week led to angry statements by Moscow and London.

Moscow claimed that a coastguard ship fired warning shots at HMS Defender, a Type 45 destroyer, and that fighter jets dropped four bombs in front of the warship after it had left the Ukrainian port of Odessa. This was denied by the Ministry of Defence in London though video showed the Russian vessel firing three rounds.


Tensions in the Black Sea remain high with an annual naval drill involving Ukraine, the United States and allies starting today and running until July 10. They involve 32 ships, 5,000 troops, and 40 aircraft from Nato member states, including Britain. The Russian embassy in Washington described the exercises as “aggressive” and called on the United States to cancel them. Moscow has warned that it will respond “appropriately” to any threats posed by the drills.

The Kremlin annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014, triggering an international crisis. Tensions flared again in April when Russia amassed an estimated 100,000 soldiers on Ukraine’s eastern borders. HMS Defender’s voyage was intended to assert international navigation rights in the area and as a show of solidarity with Ukraine.
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Old 30th Jun 2021, 07:24
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Since no-one has taken a carrier into a fight with a first class opponent since 1945 we have no ideas of their survivability against all sorts of weapons developed over the last 75 years - drones, hypersonic missiles, SSN's etc. Could be a nasty shock - as the advent of strike aircraft was to Battleships in 1939
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Old 30th Jun 2021, 07:52
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
Since no-one has taken a land airfield into a fight with a first class opponent since 1945 we have no ideas of their survivability against all sorts of weapons developed over the last 75 years - drones, hypersonic missiles, LGB, GPS guided weapons, ballistic missiles etc. All with freely available targetting imagery.
Fixed, FoC.
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Old 30th Jun 2021, 07:55
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NaB,

Iraq has - twice…..

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Old 30th Jun 2021, 08:28
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
Since no-one has taken a carrier into a fight with a first class opponent since 1945 we have no ideas of their survivability against all sorts of weapons developed over the last 75 years - drones, hypersonic missiles, SSN's etc.
I believe the weapon of choice is the dockyard crane.
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Old 30th Jun 2021, 08:39
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Originally Posted by ORAC
NaB,

Iraq has - twice…..

https://youtu.be/Ezy56Yr0J2E
Fair point - I was taking it as no first rank power has taken on another.

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Old 30th Jun 2021, 10:12
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Correct - that was what I was thinking of. Even Iran might have some interesting capabilities these days. Of course actually FIRING a hypersonic missile at a UK carrier would be a lot different from deployment and threats

It's not just Carriers that are impacted tho - it sounds as if a lot of people were mightily impressed by the (Turkish ) drone deployment in the recent Armenia/Azeri set-too. One of the human races real advantages over other species - we spend serious time thinking up completely new ways to kill each other through long years of peace.
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Old 30th Jun 2021, 11:42
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I note from the Jane's website that a pair of E-3Ds have been deployed to the Med to provide cover for the QE's battle group.
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Old 30th Jun 2021, 16:20
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Originally Posted by pasta
I believe the weapon of choice is the dockyard crane.
Driven by the SBS!
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Old 3rd Jul 2021, 01:37
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Originally Posted by WE Branch Fanatic
HMS Prince of Wales has recovered and launched her first F-35B Lightning

The stealth fighter touched down for the first time on the deck of the second of Britain’s new aircraft carriers on a calm, clear day off the south coast of England.

HMS Prince of Wales manoeuvered into position to accept the aircraft which touched down on the sprawling flight deck with precision amid an air of excitement from the ship’s company.
Originally Posted by Willard Whyte
The mountain came to Muhammad!
POW turned course so that the wind was coming from ahead down the landing path... just like carriers have been doing since the 1920s!
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 17:08
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Originally Posted by GreenKnight121
POW turned course so that the wind was coming from ahead down the landing path... just like carriers have been doing since the 1920s!
Since 1917 actually!



Back to July 2021:



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Old 6th Jul 2021, 18:55
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Through the Suez Canal today......


....and HMS Prince of Wales is in Gibraltar.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 13:02
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Originally Posted by Martin the Martian
I note from the Jane's website that a pair of E-3Ds have been deployed to the Med to provide cover for the QE's battle group.
2/3 of the existing force then!
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Old 11th Jul 2021, 00:00
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According to the media, when the carrier group was operating in the Eastern Mediterranean and launching jets against Daesh, the Merlin HM2s aboard HMS Queen Elizabeth were doing real ASW and keeping tabs on Russian submarines.
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Old 11th Jul 2021, 14:06
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WEB,

Eugene Ely landed and took off from the USS Pennsylvania using a Curtis Pusher Airplane on January 18, 1911.

He and other pilots had been doing some takeoffs from various ships in an effort to shorten Mail transit times from large Ships.

That led to the US Navy doing some tests which led to the first landing and takeoff for the American Navy.

https://generalaviationnews.com/2018...g-and-takeoff/
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