Future Carrier (Including Costs)
Joined: Oct 2018
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 12,213
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From: Ferrara
given the failed efforts to sell much in the way of UK ships abroad for so long I can see that no-one wants to forgo opening up a market, especially as the Treasury is desperate for more exports. The problem is the years when we never ordered anything ourselves
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,616
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From: aus
Because with the announcement of the 06FFM winning the australian very few people believe it has a chance. Even if it was to win it could wind up indonesian built. But the whole indo thing is up in the air. Originally they discussed 4 locally built 30FFM around 2019, but in 2021 selected 2 locally built arrowheads (with 2 more recently announced) and 6 FREMM. Now they are having meeting with japanese Govt and apparently the mogami (dont specify which version) are back on the table. So NZ could end up with either mogami or arrowhead made in indonesia
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,978
Likes: 376
From: Hampshire
Because with the announcement of the 06FFM winning the australian very few people believe it has a chance. Even if it was to win it could wind up indonesian built. But the whole indo thing is up in the air. Originally they discussed 4 locally built 30FFM around 2019, but in 2021 selected 2 locally built arrowheads (with 2 more recently announced) and 6 FREMM. Now they are having meeting with japanese Govt and apparently the mogami (dont specify which version) are back on the table. So NZ could end up with either mogami or arrowhead made in indonesia
There was an article published on NavalNews today https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...rs-from-japan/
New Zealand doesn't have the luxury of looking to buy from multiple sources as it is only looking for two frigates so playing off Arrowhead/T31 vs Mogami is, IMO, the only way they can leverage cost control. Given interoperability is a key driver the RAN going for Mogami makes it look like a racing certainty. However, the NZ Defence Capability Plan 2025 stated:
The Anzac frigates will be replaced with comparable contemporary frigates and the offshore patrol vessels will also be replaced with consideration given to whether commonality of design or systems with the frigates may be possible. The importance of a common design is to maximise crew training, qualification, and flexibility, while reducing costs of ongoing maintenance and support. A combination of capabilities from combat platforms, uncrewed technologies (air, surface and subsurface), deployable teams (for example survey, diving, and boarding), and patrol ships will be considered.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 24,510
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From: Peripatetic
.............
https://x.com/Microinteracti1/status...906800065?s=20
Sweden Just Bought Four French Frigates
Sweden has selected Naval Group as the supplier for its four new Luleå-class frigates, announced by Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson at a press conference in Stockholm on Tuesday. Defence Minister Pål Jonson cited rapid delivery, cost-sharing with France and Greece, and a proven air defence system as the reasons for choosing the French bid.
The deal is worth around $5 billion and represents Sweden’s first acquisition of large warships since the early 1980s. Two frigates are expected by 2030, with two more following by 2035.
Not a single bolt from a Lockheed Martin catalogue. Not a syllable of Pentagon influence. Stockholm looked at what was on offer, decided it wanted something that actually exists and already works, and wrote a cheque to Paris.
The FDI class is already in service with the French Navy and has been ordered by Greece. Crucially, crews can begin training on the vessel immediately – a detail that rather undermined the British and Spanish pitches, which largely involved ships that hadn’t been built yet......
Sweden Just Bought Four French Frigates
Sweden has selected Naval Group as the supplier for its four new Luleå-class frigates, announced by Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson at a press conference in Stockholm on Tuesday. Defence Minister Pål Jonson cited rapid delivery, cost-sharing with France and Greece, and a proven air defence system as the reasons for choosing the French bid.
The deal is worth around $5 billion and represents Sweden’s first acquisition of large warships since the early 1980s. Two frigates are expected by 2030, with two more following by 2035.
Not a single bolt from a Lockheed Martin catalogue. Not a syllable of Pentagon influence. Stockholm looked at what was on offer, decided it wanted something that actually exists and already works, and wrote a cheque to Paris.
The FDI class is already in service with the French Navy and has been ordered by Greece. Crucially, crews can begin training on the vessel immediately – a detail that rather undermined the British and Spanish pitches, which largely involved ships that hadn’t been built yet......
Joined: Dec 2012
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 1,155
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From: Co. Down
a detail that rather undermined the British and Spanish pitches, which largely involved ships that hadn’t been built yet......
What government is going to rely on British shipbuilders if they need warships for the next decade? Sad to see but our manufacturing industries have been savaged by short-term financial shenanigans and governments that can't see beyond the five years between elections.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 807
Likes: 425
From: Portsmouth
What government is going to rely on British shipbuilders if they need warships for the next decade? Sad to see but our manufacturing industries have been savaged by short-term financial shenanigans and governments that can't see beyond the five years between elections.
The Clyde - in the form of Govan and Scotstoun - has had continuous shipbuilding work for nigh-on thirty years, albeit recently hamstrung by Paul Draysons Maritime Industrial Strategy, which is why its taking them twelve years to build (badly) a frigate.
What is actually missing is competence in real delivery of ships, as opposed to systems engineering.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 2,965
Likes: 484
From: The Roman Empire
I see HMS Prince of Wales is delayed in Stavanger for repairs.....
This was after taking part in Exercise DMON26, with an air wing of just 4 helicopters embarked, 2 Merlins, 2 Wildcats...!
This was after taking part in Exercise DMON26, with an air wing of just 4 helicopters embarked, 2 Merlins, 2 Wildcats...!
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,967
Likes: 100
From: Devon
The repairs are routine I think - warships are always breaking things.
Having such a tiny number of ASW helicopters embarked for a major ASW exercise seems odd, as I have noted:
Constant ASW helicopter operations are best supported by a large deck with multiple helicopters, as collocating them simplifies coordination, communications, and maintenance and support. Physics also shows that modern long range sonars fitted to ASW warships need to be used in conjunction with dipping sonar to achieve their potential - and vice versa. As with all such detection systems (radar/sonar/optical) there is trade off between range and resolution. The long range sonar provides long range detection, and the dipping sonar provides pinpoint accuracy.
From the conclusions of: The Aircraft Carrier and Sea Control (carriers needed in the Atlantic and elsewhere for Air Defence and ASW - due to Maths/Physics/Geography)
However, it has been noted that no towed array equipped warships (from any NATO navy) took part in the exercise either! Not quite the ASW capability demonstration some of us expected.
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 2nd June 2026 at 10:10.
