Future Carrier (Including Costs)
Thread Starter
LAL The individual I made reference to was a Sea Harrier pilot who then left (reasons: as described above - back to back deployments with little harmony) and flew fighters elsewhere, then returned to the UK and had the chance of returning to the RN, but decided that flying a Harrier GR7/9 wasn't for him..........
Whether or not his views were typical of the Sea Harrier community, I don't know.
This level of jointery is both divisive and corrosive. I’m not sure if this is what Lord Louis had in mind. - GBZ
Perhaps it is what New Labour had in mind.........
Whether or not his views were typical of the Sea Harrier community, I don't know.
This level of jointery is both divisive and corrosive. I’m not sure if this is what Lord Louis had in mind. - GBZ
Perhaps it is what New Labour had in mind.........
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 7th Sep 2006 at 15:27.
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Perhaps it is what New Labour had in mind.........
As a foot note I am working over here in Amsterdam for a Large Telecoms company. All the other Engineers I'm working with are almost without exception Ex NL Defence forces (Mainly RNLN) But i've been speaking to this guy who was in the RNLAF. I asked him about their apache Squadrons to which his reply was this. They are owned by the RNLAF, Maintained by the RNLAF, And flown Jointly (but mainly) by the Army. Same with chinook. Seems that the Cloggy Services can operate in greater harmony than us Brits.
WEBF
I think that a few of the ex SHAR guys left as it was just their time. How old was your friend at the time? Had he long to go? Was it worth him learning how to fly a completely different ac? Did he have the fear about going to 20?
There are plenty of ex Sea Jet pilots here at Cottesmore. I don't think you'll find any of them complaining about moving to the GR7/9, apart from the really lazy ones!
I think that a few of the ex SHAR guys left as it was just their time. How old was your friend at the time? Had he long to go? Was it worth him learning how to fly a completely different ac? Did he have the fear about going to 20?
There are plenty of ex Sea Jet pilots here at Cottesmore. I don't think you'll find any of them complaining about moving to the GR7/9, apart from the really lazy ones!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
If Navaleye can read Vulcan 607 I can read naval books - I cut my teeth on John Winton and Talbot-Booth.
I am reading Nimitz Class by Patrick Robinson. It is not new but it is a very colourful read and excellent arguement for carrier aviation to train on the CV. His style is gripping and seems entirely authentic. He co-authored Sandy Woodward's book and has impecable sources.
I know the book is fiction and dramatised so you are hangng in there on every approach fully expecting the worst. I am only pages in but the drama is mounting after an early punchout.
The uninitiated might doubt the visual on a periscope from 30k but if you have been there you know exactly how it might be true.
I remember about my 10th mission, a simple transit at about 330. "Mark Mark, Port beam, snort 9 o'clock right below."
It seems a cracking read to put you into the picture of flight deck ops.
I am reading Nimitz Class by Patrick Robinson. It is not new but it is a very colourful read and excellent arguement for carrier aviation to train on the CV. His style is gripping and seems entirely authentic. He co-authored Sandy Woodward's book and has impecable sources.
I know the book is fiction and dramatised so you are hangng in there on every approach fully expecting the worst. I am only pages in but the drama is mounting after an early punchout.
The uninitiated might doubt the visual on a periscope from 30k but if you have been there you know exactly how it might be true.
I remember about my 10th mission, a simple transit at about 330. "Mark Mark, Port beam, snort 9 o'clock right below."
It seems a cracking read to put you into the picture of flight deck ops.
Many years ago I sat through a boring lecture on MoD funding, to which I was only half listening. I seem to remember talk of a rolling 10 year 'core' MoD budget. If your project didn't get into the core it stood a cat in hells chance of coming to fruition. Even if it was in, a project could keep getting pushed back into the latter years of the 10 year plan, putting it on pertual hold until it was finally killed off.
If I am remembering correctly where does the CVF budget fit into 'core' spending?
Of course this may bear no resemblence to how things are done today, in which case I am standing by to be corrected without throwing my teddy out of the cot over it!
Whatever the situation, I can't see CVF coming along for at least 10 years given it's current state of play - so the FAA had better sort itself out viz flying GR9s as part of JFH!
If I am remembering correctly where does the CVF budget fit into 'core' spending?
Of course this may bear no resemblence to how things are done today, in which case I am standing by to be corrected without throwing my teddy out of the cot over it!
Whatever the situation, I can't see CVF coming along for at least 10 years given it's current state of play - so the FAA had better sort itself out viz flying GR9s as part of JFH!
Thread Starter
Surely the SDR made CVF a core capability, if not then "Their Lordships" just got an empty IOU...
LAL I can assure you that the person mentioned above is still flying fighters, which is largely why the GR7/9 wasn't for him. Can't say too much for fear to revealing his identity.
LAL I can assure you that the person mentioned above is still flying fighters, which is largely why the GR7/9 wasn't for him. Can't say too much for fear to revealing his identity.
Core capability maybe, in the futurebut is the funding allocated to it, and if so when. If the income stream only fully comes on line in say eight years time......
To the best of my knowledge, and this is not my 'pet' area of expertise, the design hasn't even been completed yet. Even with the 'build it in sections and stick them together' approach do you really think it will enter RN service in less than 10 years!!!
I think their lordships of the Admiralty were sold a pup - but that will teach them to trust a politician!
To the best of my knowledge, and this is not my 'pet' area of expertise, the design hasn't even been completed yet. Even with the 'build it in sections and stick them together' approach do you really think it will enter RN service in less than 10 years!!!
I think their lordships of the Admiralty were sold a pup - but that will teach them to trust a politician!
Biggus
The EP capital funding line (which is what you're talking about) is there now and spread over the next nine years or so. The problem is that the perception of risk (God knows why, it's a simple ship, but see previous posts!), mainly driven by continuing uncertainty over whether its Dave B or Dave C, is making the Alliance include substantial risk provision in its cost estimate, which drives it over the total EP provision. The design is not yet mature enough (although it should be for the amount of money spent) to do actual costed trade-offs, so they're hacking out capability based on crudish estimates. Result - impasse, the DEC argue they're not getting what they asked for, the DPA / Alliance say they can't do it for the budget, and therefore CDP, DCDS and the pollies won't sign off on Main Gate. Lack of funding provision is not the problem - it's p1ss-poor costing and unwillingness to make a decision that's delaying it.
The EP capital funding line (which is what you're talking about) is there now and spread over the next nine years or so. The problem is that the perception of risk (God knows why, it's a simple ship, but see previous posts!), mainly driven by continuing uncertainty over whether its Dave B or Dave C, is making the Alliance include substantial risk provision in its cost estimate, which drives it over the total EP provision. The design is not yet mature enough (although it should be for the amount of money spent) to do actual costed trade-offs, so they're hacking out capability based on crudish estimates. Result - impasse, the DEC argue they're not getting what they asked for, the DPA / Alliance say they can't do it for the budget, and therefore CDP, DCDS and the pollies won't sign off on Main Gate. Lack of funding provision is not the problem - it's p1ss-poor costing and unwillingness to make a decision that's delaying it.
I'd also question whether Dave C is going to be the answer to the maiden's prayer, either. The latest version has a big 660 sq ft wing which has swallowed most of the tail and will play hell with any supersonic performance.
When the short-list of names for the F-35 was announced, we had a thread about the selection.
Naming the JSF
As you'll see, it was felt that 'F-35 Dave' was a better option than those on the short-list...
Naming the JSF
As you'll see, it was felt that 'F-35 Dave' was a better option than those on the short-list...
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Ok, Dave it is
NotaBoffin, if you don't mind, I'm going to post your CVF info over onto the Warships1 board. I wish they'd just make up their
minds. Choose CTOL and pick the plane later on!
NotaBoffin, if you don't mind, I'm going to post your CVF info over onto the Warships1 board. I wish they'd just make up their
minds. Choose CTOL and pick the plane later on!
SaN - fine by me. Nothing that isn't known (if not widely) already. If Dave C is heading A12-wards, might I suggest we give Mr Grumman a shout and get him to dust off the Tom21 designs (wishful thinking I know........)
Super Bug it is then......
Super Bug it is then......
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Thread Starter
From Janes: Carrier renaissance: new-wave designs to maximise innovation
Also from Janes: US seeks stable at-sea platform to lighten the load
Shades of Mulberry?
On a negative note, we are now another SSN down. HMS Sovereign has been decommisioned.
Also from Janes: US seeks stable at-sea platform to lighten the load
Shades of Mulberry?
On a negative note, we are now another SSN down. HMS Sovereign has been decommisioned.
Suspicion breeds confidence
The Dave B vc C debate still rolls on. Reading between the lines the thought process goes something like this:
F-35 is late in all its guises.
CVF delivery has also slipped by up to three years, making the C a viable option.
Going CTOL would drive commonality with the French PA2 to over 90%
Better or possibly shared fixed wing AEW assets with the MN.
Two years ago, I would have said that the B was a cert. I'm far from convinced that is still the case. Thoughts anyone?
F-35 is late in all its guises.
CVF delivery has also slipped by up to three years, making the C a viable option.
Going CTOL would drive commonality with the French PA2 to over 90%
Better or possibly shared fixed wing AEW assets with the MN.
Two years ago, I would have said that the B was a cert. I'm far from convinced that is still the case. Thoughts anyone?