Future Carrier (Including Costs)
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I believe at one time those who know the cost of everything (well that's what they think at least) and the value of nothing, had intended it become Short, Fat Lizzie.
Present Carrier....in case you have forgotten what one looks like lately!
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Dave C vs Dave A...
(From the under-informed one in the corner)
If we can bin Dave B and get the CVF design working properly with CTOL (and the benefits of proper AEW/COD/Payload v Range/PA2 integration), how much better is Dave A when flown from land bases than Dave C? IIRC, Dave C has a bigger wing (along with all of the crochet-hook stuff for plonking down on a large nautical target
), but is there any case for a split buy of Dave C for the RN and Dave A/B/C for the RAF? 
Presumably not, but it would be interesting for someone to confirm.
S41
If we can bin Dave B and get the CVF design working properly with CTOL (and the benefits of proper AEW/COD/Payload v Range/PA2 integration), how much better is Dave A when flown from land bases than Dave C? IIRC, Dave C has a bigger wing (along with all of the crochet-hook stuff for plonking down on a large nautical target
), but is there any case for a split buy of Dave C for the RN and Dave A/B/C for the RAF? Presumably not, but it would be interesting for someone to confirm.S41
Join Date: May 2006
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Dear Secretary of State
Look, We've been having a think about these future carrier CVF names, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales that were announced and have had a bit of a ponder. For one they are a bit well royalist, imperialist and well, frankly not modern enough. We've got some other ideas we'd like you to consider for these new warships.
HMS Investors in People
HMS Posh'n'Becks
HMS Prosecuting a robust roadmap
HMS Robustly prosecuting a roadmap
HMS Roadmapping a a robust prosecution
HMS Robustly roadmapping a prosecution
HMS Call this smart procurement?
HMS Overdue
HMS Overbudget
HMS Strictly come alpha striking
HMS Wasn't this supposed to be bigger?
HMS This space available for adverts
HMS Air Wing Idol - txt to vote!
HMS Customer Two's ship
HMS Outsourcing air defence
HMS What do you mean, you built your part in metric?
HMS Stakeholder tea and medals
HMS Partnering the sea
FCUK (Future Carrier United Kingdom)
FCUK-U (Future Carrier United Kingdom - Undermanned)
HMS Customer focussed for the end user
HMS Imperial entanglements
HMS Coalitions only, please
HMS [email protected]
HMS Capability gap
HMS Capability holiday
HMS Capability retirement
HMS Ménage a trois
HMS System of Systems
HMS I'm having no Rafales on my deck, thank you
HMS Parents still not talking to one another
HMS You need it when?
HMS Sexed-up
HMS Where's my air wing?
HMS Big brother 24 - vote 'em off!
HMS We're not going have to go to Korea are we?
HMS Poodle
HMS Lapdog
If you can pick a couple you like, we can put it to our focus group next week when they decide on Eurofighter Tranche 3 cuts.
Yours
[email protected]
Look, We've been having a think about these future carrier CVF names, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales that were announced and have had a bit of a ponder. For one they are a bit well royalist, imperialist and well, frankly not modern enough. We've got some other ideas we'd like you to consider for these new warships.
HMS Investors in People
HMS Posh'n'Becks
HMS Prosecuting a robust roadmap
HMS Robustly prosecuting a roadmap
HMS Roadmapping a a robust prosecution
HMS Robustly roadmapping a prosecution
HMS Call this smart procurement?
HMS Overdue
HMS Overbudget
HMS Strictly come alpha striking
HMS Wasn't this supposed to be bigger?
HMS This space available for adverts
HMS Air Wing Idol - txt to vote!
HMS Customer Two's ship
HMS Outsourcing air defence
HMS What do you mean, you built your part in metric?
HMS Stakeholder tea and medals
HMS Partnering the sea
FCUK (Future Carrier United Kingdom)
FCUK-U (Future Carrier United Kingdom - Undermanned)
HMS Customer focussed for the end user
HMS Imperial entanglements
HMS Coalitions only, please
HMS [email protected]
HMS Capability gap
HMS Capability holiday
HMS Capability retirement
HMS Ménage a trois
HMS System of Systems
HMS I'm having no Rafales on my deck, thank you
HMS Parents still not talking to one another
HMS You need it when?
HMS Sexed-up
HMS Where's my air wing?
HMS Big brother 24 - vote 'em off!
HMS We're not going have to go to Korea are we?
HMS Poodle
HMS Lapdog
If you can pick a couple you like, we can put it to our focus group next week when they decide on Eurofighter Tranche 3 cuts.
Yours
[email protected]
Dave C has more range than Dave A, but that's mainly because there's no internal gun, which makes a significant difference in internal fuel. C may be slower in some respects (eg transonic acceleration) because of the big wing.
Thread Starter
I am glad to see this thread still going. I am sorry for my recent absence; this has been due to my PC going wrong. Before you ask hard drive gone, the repairers need to get parts,etc etc etc!! Glad I insured it!! I will be back online next week......I hope.
Meanwhile, I have been catching up with some reading (reading Sharkey Ward's excellent Sea Harrier Over The Falklands again amongst others) and other stuff. I wonder what will happen in relation with the situation with North Korea? If the UN decides to implement sanctions then I suspect naval forces will be busy with MIOPS activities. What role will naval aviation (carrier based on otherwise) play? Will C2/C3 and marime reece be what's needed? Will air defence be needed? Will Dubya et al be willing to relay on the Chinese for air defence of Western forces? Will China be willing to shoot down DPRK jets? Will Kim Jong Il divert his attention from starving and murdering his own people to think of attack any such forces conducting a blockade (so called)?
We do live in interesting times...........
All spelling and typographical errors are because I'm in a hurry.
Meanwhile, I have been catching up with some reading (reading Sharkey Ward's excellent Sea Harrier Over The Falklands
again amongst others) and other stuff. I wonder what will happen in relation with the situation with North Korea? If the UN decides to implement sanctions then I suspect naval forces will be busy with MIOPS activities. What role will naval aviation (carrier based on otherwise) play? Will C2/C3 and marime reece be what's needed? Will air defence be needed? Will Dubya et al be willing to relay on the Chinese for air defence of Western forces? Will China be willing to shoot down DPRK jets? Will Kim Jong Il divert his attention from starving and murdering his own people to think of attack any such forces conducting a blockade (so called)?We do live in interesting times...........
All spelling and typographical errors are because I'm in a hurry.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Suspicion breeds confidence
The RNR doesn't have any computers!
Webf get them to put some more RAM in it - At least 1Gb. The reason your hard drive is crunched is beacuse its knackered itself swapping like crazy because you don't have enough RAM.
Webf get them to put some more RAM in it - At least 1Gb. The reason your hard drive is crunched is beacuse its knackered itself swapping like crazy because you don't have enough RAM.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
NE, digressing further, I increased my RAM from 256 to 1256 and reduced my boot time from over a minute to between 35-40 seconds.
Untitled
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Meanwhile, I have been catching up with some reading (reading Sharkey Ward's excellent Sea Harrier Over The Falklands 
again amongst others)
again amongst others)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scotland
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WEBF,
"Sharkey Ward's excellent Sea Harrier Over The Falklands"
I am sad to think you view it that way.
I find that book exceptionally depressing in that a member of the Senior Service would demean both himself and his colleagues in Dark Blue by writing such childish and pathetic drivel.
Makes one wonder how he slipped through the usually stringent AIB and other evals.
I guess every organisation has a few bad apples.
Cheers
BHR
"Sharkey Ward's excellent Sea Harrier Over The Falklands"
I am sad to think you view it that way.
I find that book exceptionally depressing in that a member of the Senior Service would demean both himself and his colleagues in Dark Blue by writing such childish and pathetic drivel.
Makes one wonder how he slipped through the usually stringent AIB and other evals.
I guess every organisation has a few bad apples.
Cheers
BHR
Suspicion breeds confidence
BHR,
Ward's book is an excellent account of the the events on Invincible. I don't agree with his sniping, but I wasn't there, so who knows?
Ward's book is an excellent account of the the events on Invincible. I don't agree with his sniping, but I wasn't there, so who knows?
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Naval,
I do not want to get into a slanging match on this one. However, I will make one observation, if you were not there (and neither was I) how can you know it is an "excellent account of the the events on Invincible"?
Cheers
BHR
I do not want to get into a slanging match on this one. However, I will make one observation, if you were not there (and neither was I) how can you know it is an "excellent account of the the events on Invincible"?
Cheers
BHR
Suspicion breeds confidence
Firstly, if you subtract the mud slinging, it is a very good first hand account of what happened on that ship. Secondly what he says is supported by many other books, lastly it says "Non fiction" on the inside. I have no reason to doubt him.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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WEBF,
"Sharkey Ward's excellent Sea Harrier Over The Falklands"
I am sad to think you view it that way.
I find that book exceptionally depressing in that a member of the Senior Service would demean both himself and his colleagues in Dark Blue by writing such childish and pathetic drivel.
Makes one wonder how he slipped through the usually stringent AIB and other evals.
I guess every organisation has a few bad apples.
Cheers
BHR
"Sharkey Ward's excellent Sea Harrier Over The Falklands"
I am sad to think you view it that way.
I find that book exceptionally depressing in that a member of the Senior Service would demean both himself and his colleagues in Dark Blue by writing such childish and pathetic drivel.
Makes one wonder how he slipped through the usually stringent AIB and other evals.
I guess every organisation has a few bad apples.
Cheers
BHR
Admiral Woodward's account of the war on the other hand - now THAT's a book.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Get hold of a Patrick Robinson novel. Sir Sandy had a hand in the first few. The submarine sequences are second to none. Absolute gripping realism with a submarine just feet from a large surface ship. You can feel it.
Thread Starter
Wannabe One Hundred Days by Woodward has a place on my bookshelf (and has since I bought a copy in 1992) and gives balance to Sharkey's book as well as well as a overall naval viewpoint. Funnily enough, the first time I read it the main thing I picked up was how important the carrier and the Sea Harrier were. Remember, anyone who writes anything does so from their own perspective, with their own specialist knowledge (and knowledge gaps), predjudices, etc.
Back on topic, when is main gate due?
Also does the deployment of the Giuseppe Garibaldi and her group (including HMS York) to the coast of Lebanon, and the involvement of French and Italian amphibious forces not prove how useful naval forces are?
I feel a little disappointed that this thread has been neglected in my absence.
Lastly, I am waiting for the company employed by the insurers to fix my PC. As for althenick's suggestion, there are no technical trades in the RNR (expect Air Branch). Perhaps he would like me to tie a rope around the PC or shoot it............
Back on topic, when is main gate due?
Also does the deployment of the Giuseppe Garibaldi and her group (including HMS York) to the coast of Lebanon, and the involvement of French and Italian amphibious forces not prove how useful naval forces are?
I feel a little disappointed that this thread has been neglected in my absence.
Lastly, I am waiting for the company employed by the insurers to fix my PC. As for althenick's suggestion, there are no technical trades in the RNR (expect Air Branch). Perhaps he would like me to tie a rope around the PC or shoot it............
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 26th Oct 2006 at 12:27.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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But 20 knots = 480 nautical miles per day. 25 knots = 600 nautical miles per day. And that's carrying all your engineering, logistics and other support facilities with you.
This isn't the way the Government do there sums but....
Estimated cost of CVF = £15 000 million
Predicated lifespan of CVF = 50 years
Therefore cost for two ships per year = £300 million.
Cost for ship per year = £150 million.
Which is cheaper than a frigate, and less than three Typhoons.
Something to think about.
This isn't the way the Government do there sums but....
Estimated cost of CVF = £15 000 million
Predicated lifespan of CVF = 50 years
Therefore cost for two ships per year = £300 million.
Cost for ship per year = £150 million.
Which is cheaper than a frigate, and less than three Typhoons.
Something to think about.