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Future Carrier (Including Costs)

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Future Carrier (Including Costs)

Old 9th May 2021, 08:42
  #6221 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Thank you - my views on FF & SSN are however shared by a large number of ex serving officers in all arms of the forces............................
Good for you. So are mine.
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Old 9th May 2021, 09:13
  #6222 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed - as the thread has been running for 15 years and has 16000+ contributions and 1.7 million views I think we can agree that opinion remains heartfelt but still divided?
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Old 9th May 2021, 09:42
  #6223 (permalink)  
 
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HMS Albion leads the way as commandos head for the Baltic

Well elements of 847 NAS are off to the Baltic. No mention of 845 's Merlins so a Wildcat only deployment? I wonder if Mounts Bay will get its temporary hangar?

This is the first deployment of the Littoral Response Group (North) task group, which is the first of two forces – centred around Royal Marines and amphibious ships – that will regularly carry out operations in areas of interest to the UK, providing reassurance to allies and deter potential adversaries.

In the coming months they will be involved in US-led exercises in Norway and participate in NATO’s Baltops, the largest multinational exercise in the Baltic Sea.

This task group is made up of amphibious assault ship HMS Albion and landing dock RFA Mounts Bay, plus Type 23 frigate HMS Lancaster, Wildcat helicopters from 847 Naval Air Squadron, and Royal Marines from 45 and 30 Commando.

...

“With two major exercises, including the 50th anniversary of NATO’s Baltops, it is shaping up to be a busy deployment.

“We are excited to be part of the development and delivery of the vanguard Littoral Response Group, as announced in the recent Integrated Review, which will project a more sophisticated, persistently engaged, and lethal commando force.” Capt. Simon Kelly RN, HMS Albion
PS I think we will all just have to agree to disagree. However, there are some whose knowledge I always bow to ... Post # 3 "I've been involved on the fringes with this thing off and on since 1994" not_a_boffin
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Old 14th May 2021, 20:15
  #6224 (permalink)  
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Some recent news from Italy: ITS Cavour conducts successful F-35B trials

For decades, the bond between Europe and North America has made NATO the strongest Alliance in history. Conducting training and exercises alongside Allies and partners increases our collective capacity and capabilities as well as increased interoperability with the U.S. forces. Its Cavour has truly been an ambassador of this trans-Atlantic bond.

Several Allied carrier strike groups, under national command, will be deployed into SACEUR Area of Responsibility (AOR) in the upcoming weeks and months. These multiple deployments demonstrate the Allied commitment to the maritime enterprise as well as our ability to effectively deliver multi-domain effects.

The multinational character of NATO deployment, exercises and activities reflect Allies’ fundamental commitment to the transatlantic bond and to the principle of collective defence in order to keep peace and preserve security. No Ally can face today’s security challenges alone. We are stronger when we stand together.

Interoperability is an essential component of NATO’s DNA and a key component of Allied forces’ readiness and ability to deter aggression. The aircraft carrier represents the highest expression of a nation’s air/sea power and naval diplomacy. The deployment of an aircraft carrier is an enabling factor, because this kind of unit allows rapid redeployment of capabilities, thanks to its peculiar characteristics of operational readiness, enduring logistic self-reliance, high command and control capabilities, and full freedom of movement, thanks to the International Legal Regime of the High Seas (freedom of navigation and inoffensive transit passage through straits) as established by the UNCLOS.
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Old 15th May 2021, 05:32
  #6225 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin View Post
If only you understood the difference between what happened in that instance in 2007 and what is happening now.

Still, you don't want to get in the way of a good dig at the carrier programme or TPL, do you?
With 14 AV-8Bs on board, Illustrious would have exhausted her supply of bombs in one strike. The Invincibles were marginal at best in this role. QEC is a different matter. That's a big difference.
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Old 20th May 2021, 08:41
  #6226 (permalink)  
 
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I am surprised not to see any mention of HMSQNLZ entering Portsmouth the other day ranged with 617 and VMFA-211 kites.

Distant recollection of an SDSR on the Cameron watch (remember him?) which stated the USMC will form an integral part of QE class operations.

Is this the future? UK defence (And sovereignty) compromised by US foreign policy.
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Old 20th May 2021, 09:04
  #6227 (permalink)  
 
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More interestingly, what is she doing back alongside? Storms in the Solent ? Really ?
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Old 20th May 2021, 09:49
  #6228 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Timelord View Post
More interestingly, what is she doing back alongside? Storms in the Solent ? Really ?
Easier and cheaper to top up the vittles stores alongside on PRJ then it is to do so at Charlie buoy. Forecast 40kt plus gales today and tomorrow which would have made boat Tx unnecessarily tricky.
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Old 20th May 2021, 14:31
  #6229 (permalink)  
 
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Well, I'm pleased, at least:

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-an...strike-warrior



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Old 20th May 2021, 17:05
  #6230 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FODPlod View Post
The article could have been written with just a little more care....

By successfully bringing down two “bogeys” – jet target drones – with air-to-air missiles, the pilots of 617 Squadron (aka The Dambusters) showed how they can protect HMS Queen Elizabeth [and the rest of the strike/task group including vessels being escorted] from air attack during the deployment and demonstrated the potency of the fifth-generation strike fighter.

Lieutenant Commander David Tinsley, the ship’s
[Kent] Weapon Engineer Officer, said: “Our hull mounted and towed sonar systems are incredibly capable at locating sub-surface contacts, combined with the very best operators and environmental analysis methods, the equipment performed exceptionally well in tracking the submarine. The towed array provides long range detection and cues helicopters with dipping sonar - in this case carrier based ones.

Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 23rd May 2021 at 22:55.
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Old 21st May 2021, 21:33
  #6231 (permalink)  
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https://www.defensenews.com/global/e...etition-again/

Britain launches $2.3B logistics ship competition — again

LONDON— Britain has relaunched a £1.6 billion (U.S. $2.3 billion) competition to build three logistic ships to support the deployments of Royal Navy aircraft carriers and other surface ships.….
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Old 22nd May 2021, 06:38
  #6232 (permalink)  
 
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"One industry executive, speaking on condition of anonymity, said he hopes the MoD hadn’t resorted to weasel words in order to keep its options open when it comes to international competition. The worst-case scenario on integration could involve the hull being built offshore and the fitting-out undertaken in the U.K.,” he said"

given that something like 75% of the value is in fitting out rather than hull- building I'd say he's wrong
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Old 22nd May 2021, 22:33
  #6233 (permalink)  
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HMS Queen Elizabeth has sailed.



Soon she will be joined by her strike/task group. In just a few days they will be contributing to an important NATO exercise that is intended to show the feasibility of Transatlantic reinforcement. Later in the deployment aircraft will launch from the deck of a British carrier to deliver ordnance against the enemy of all civilised nations, peoples, and faiths.

Fair winds...
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Old 23rd May 2021, 06:37
  #6234 (permalink)  
 
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Will RAF/Navy engineering personnel be servicing USMC f35 aircraft on deployment?
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Old 23rd May 2021, 06:59
  #6235 (permalink)  
 
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". Later in the deployment aircraft will launch from the deck of a British carrier to deliver ordnance against the enemy of all civilised nations, peoples, and faiths."

Must have missed that declaration of war WEBF - let me guess - Godzilla?
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Old 23rd May 2021, 09:15
  #6236 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
". Later in the deployment aircraft will launch from the deck of a British carrier to deliver ordnance against the enemy of all civilised nations, peoples, and faiths."

Must have missed that declaration of war WEBF - let me guess - Godzilla?
was doing fine till they mentioned ‘faiths’. Which ones are the good ones I wonder? As far as I am concerned religious faiths ‘come in peace - shoot to kill’.
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Old 23rd May 2021, 14:30
  #6237 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
"
given that something like 75% of the value is in fitting out rather than hull- building I'd say he's wrong
Nope. That's not how it works. "Fitting out" is not what you think it is.
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Old 23rd May 2021, 19:46
  #6238 (permalink)  
 
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Navy Lookout (né Save the Royal Navy) have some interesting comments re FSS: (https://www.navylookout.com/the-comp...een-restarted/)

The Team UK bid would be politically low-risk but there are question marks around industrial capacity, given the other parallel shipbuilding projects these companies may already have underway. Infrastrata have a big empty dock in Belfast but lack the experience as well as the skilled the workforce for such a task and would be very reliant on Navatia. The optics of at least a part of the work being done in Spain would be difficult. The upside of the ‘part-foreign’ bid could ultimately be to help reinvigorate shipbuilding in Belfast (and possibly Appledore) by transfer of skills and Navantia’s digital shipyard technology.The requirement for a British company to lead the bid could also be an issue. Bidding for MoD business requires a company to have cash or assets in proportion to a large percentage of the contract value. The approximately £1.5Bn FSS contract would not be a problem for a major corporate entity like Navantia but Infrastra Plc is relatively small. A good team of lawyers and financiers could most likely surmount this obstacle.
And...

DE&S’ Director General Ships, Vice Admiral Chris Gardner, effectively confirmed that the Heavy RAS (5-tonne) requirement has been abandoned, commenting that FSS will be “able to transfer loads of more than two tonnes at a time while at high speed”. This may not appear significant but de-scoping the specification will simplify internal design, reduce costs and help deliver three instead of two ships. The obvious tactical implication of not being able to transfer bigger loads is more time spent conducting replenishments when the participants are potentially more vulnerable.
More directly relevant to this thread, is their thoughts on the vulnerability caused by the time frame for replacing the one current FSS:
The recent minor fire onboard the sole existing FSS, RFA Fort Victoria should serve as a wake-up call that greater priority should be given to providing combat support vessels for the Carrier Strike Group. A small electrical fire is believed to have done very little direct damage to the ship but the effects of smoke have written off the stock of frozen provisions for the CSG21 deployment. There may be some knock-on effects but fortunately, this happened alongside and before the group had sailed, presumably allowing the opportunity for some rapid re-storing.
The linked article includes:
Thanks to their folding rotors and tail added during their conversion to Mk4 standard, for the first time three Merlin helicopters were squeezed into Fort Vic’s hangar. This is an important option to have in the event of foul weather as the cabs are much better protected than when lashed to the flight deck. Space for carrying out maintenance is very restricted and at least one would normally be kept on deck.

For the upcoming deployment, Fort Vic has over 230 personnel on board. Besides to core RFA crew of around 100, she has embarked sailors of 1700 Naval Air Squadron who provide a range of aircraft handling, weapon engineering and support to the civilian crew. Three Merlin Mk4s of 845 Naval Air Squadron, along with aircrew and engineers add to the total. The Merlins have multiple roles, providing logistic support to the carrier group – Maritime Intra Theatre Lift (MITL), Joint Personnel Recovery (JPR), and vertical replenishment (VERTREP).

Fort Vic had earlier conducted a landmark replenishment at sea off the UK coast with HMS Queen Elizabeth that represented the culmination of many years of work and planning. This was the first time solid stores and munitions had been passed to one of the QEC carriers at sea. Fort Vic had to be significantly modified so her jackstay rigs have geometry compatible with the high Heavy RAS-capable rigs of the carrier.

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Old 24th May 2021, 07:44
  #6239 (permalink)  
 
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"The approximately £1.5Bn FSS contract would not be a problem for a major corporate entity like Navantia but Infrastra Plc is relatively small. "

Understatement of the year - Infrastrata was a tiny (2 or 3 people) onshore UK oil company that got into a gas storage scheme in N Ireland which mainly seemed to be about harvesting subsidies. They then took over the remains of Harland & Wolff, possibly smelling more Govt money. I'd be very very careful of entrusting them with any program of national importance.

One of teh real problems was identified by Parker in 2016 was that it's extremely risky to have one yard building two "first of types" - currently there are 3 major new types under construction the SSBN, Type 26 and Type 31e. Almost all of the construction experience and ability is already spoken for.
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Old 24th May 2021, 11:27
  #6240 (permalink)  
 
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Russia's new radar system can detect the F 35 and F 22.

https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2021/5/24/16227/
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