RAF JPA Rollout
Is the 'Senior Officer' who makes these statements the same Wg Cdr Trevor 'Comical Ali' Field who tried to play down the problems earlier?
Meals + Mail + Money = Morale. Never meddle with that fundamental concept!
Meals + Mail + Money = Morale. Never meddle with that fundamental concept!
Last edited by BEagle; 26th Jun 2006 at 06:31.
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Sorry guys to disagree but after initial teething problems I have been pleasantly surprised how easy the system is to use. I have managed to have my pay split and submitted a career break application - plus HTD was a cinch.
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I'm Stunned
A mere 3 months after being told i would be rung inside 2 days, and after me ringing them 3 other times, to correct my pay grade, they have rung and told me my pay will be correct by the end of July
. I did have the gaul to ask if i would get a mid month payment for the outstanding amount, to which i was told "we don't do mid monthly payments".
Since when, who said so, why wasn't i immediately informed. Oh sorry i forgot "Service before Self". Must keep that at the fore front of my thinking or i might get upset at not being paid properly.
. I did have the gaul to ask if i would get a mid month payment for the outstanding amount, to which i was told "we don't do mid monthly payments".Since when, who said so, why wasn't i immediately informed. Oh sorry i forgot "Service before Self". Must keep that at the fore front of my thinking or i might get upset at not being paid properly.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Originally Posted by TrembleInAmf
i forgot "Service before Self".
Ooops, sorry, I forgot, there is no one at home to take the blame.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Originally Posted by Jobza Guddun
Could anyone with a bit of knowledge suggest why, or has anyone else seen this? Bit of a bugger as I'm waiting on the results of a promotion board, and assuming I would be successful, that lack of data could have seen me go anywhere! (probably would have done anyway!)
JG
JG
The other is a simple system glitch (ie finger trouble) that now, after 10 years I can confess to. Simply your information got through and was held in the current store but someone managed to restore the system to a point before your update and then failed (that's what I did) to add in the latest temporary cache files.
These are of course pure guesses as I have no idea how the system is actually supposed to work but it would be well to check the next day after the overnight backup run.
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Originally Posted by TrembleInAmf
A mere 3 months after being told i would be rung inside 2 days, and after me ringing them 3 other times, to correct my pay grade, they have rung and told me my pay will be correct by the end of July . I did have the gaul to ask if i would get a mid month payment for the outstanding amount, to which i was told "we don't do mid monthly payments".
Since when, who said so, why wasn't i immediately informed. Oh sorry i forgot "Service before Self". Must keep that at the fore front of my thinking or i might get upset at not being paid properly.
. I did have the gaul to ask if i would get a mid month payment for the outstanding amount, to which i was told "we don't do mid monthly payments".Since when, who said so, why wasn't i immediately informed. Oh sorry i forgot "Service before Self". Must keep that at the fore front of my thinking or i might get upset at not being paid properly.
A collegue in the same office as me has had pay problems for the last 2 months and has been ringing the JPAC every week since the beginning, they would promise to call back, (within 2 days, then 24 hrs then 2 hours, which they never did!) would pass him from pillar to post give a different excuse everytime, tell him he wasn't the only one with problems. (Do you really give a damn who else has problems when you are £300 pounds down?)
Finally he spoke (yet again) to the desk and the young lady told him that 'THEY DON'T DEAL WITH PAY MATTERS!!!!!!!' and he should talk to his local HR (PSF). Off he trundled to HQ and low and behold they could access the system and make the required changes!
Turns out he had been put on a course and moved into the barrack block, (on paper) when he already had a married quarter on camp. Of course they had started charging him food and accomodation and never bothered to take him off at the end of the course. Not that they should have moved him in in the first place.
As for 'Service before self' well I think you can all guess the point of view taken by those of us at the grindstone. "S
w them!" If they want to run a business best they get some real managers in and start considering their planning strategy's. Just don't get me started on the T93 radar.LoL better shut up now someone else might have something to say!
Have a good un!
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I hope you find the following reply dated 27 June 2006 useful:
Ministry of Defence: Joint Personnel Administration System
Lord Garden asked Her Majesty's Government:
What arrangements they have made for compensating members of the Royal Air Force who have not received correct payments on time since the introduction of the joint personnel administration system. [HL6437]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Drayson): Any claims for compensation as a result of incorrect payments following the introduction of the JPA system will be considered in accordance with government accounting procedures. The general principle adopted is that the individual may be recompensed where it can be shown that a financial loss has occurred through maladministration.
Lord Garden asked Her Majesty's Government:
What arrangements they have made for compensating members of the Royal Air Force who have not received correct payments on time since the introduction of the joint personnel administration system. [HL6437]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Drayson): Any claims for compensation as a result of incorrect payments following the introduction of the JPA system will be considered in accordance with government accounting procedures. The general principle adopted is that the individual may be recompensed where it can be shown that a financial loss has occurred through maladministration.
Last edited by tgarden; 29th Jun 2006 at 06:51.
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Originally Posted by tgarden
I hpe you find the following reply dated 27 June 2006 useful:
In truth, heads should roll because it's been a cock up from conception to birth, but we all know that never happens. It should not be a major task to call in some of the trained desk-bunny accountants (that the MOD paid to be trained) to check out the accounts that people claim are incorrect, and to apply a payment and corrective action. All the time we can fund MBAs, Uni break years, sabbaticals, senior management jollies, sorry, courses, etc, then we should be able to ensure that those bearing the weight are paid correctly.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
JPA - Rumbled
Read Alex Masterley in the Business Section of the Daily Telegraph today. Brilliant.
It covers replacement of forms, reduction of Admin, covers Pompey's comments and has a great punchline, the lead in to which is:
"The impossibly comlicated one for people to reclaim their expenses on?"
It covers replacement of forms, reduction of Admin, covers Pompey's comments and has a great punchline, the lead in to which is:
"The impossibly comlicated one for people to reclaim their expenses on?"
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Originally Posted by PompeySailor
they take six months to come back with a derisory offer, normally based around a nominal percentage rate.
Ok, this is big bucks and long time, but £1000 per year over 12 years eventually led to MOD paying out £35000. Part of the bill was for the plaintiffs' experts in challenging the ministry on the appropriate daily rate of interest over 12 years. Naturally the MOD offered interest at the lowest annual rate whereas the plaintiffs claimed, and won, a signifigantly larger sum.
For JPA claims I believe the MOD would be hard pressed to refuse to pay out at the Customs and Revenue Interest rate which is actually quite generous. In their case though you have to make an involuntary loan for 12 months
. So, in addition to any expenses, including fees for checking Experian etc, and bank charges, you should also be looking for loss of interest (you should pay tax on the interest of course).
Say you were planning to pay for a £1000 holiday and your pay is short over the period by £1000 then the interest you would claim would be that associated with paying for that holiday - say 1-2% per month.
Don't claim, don't want. Don't want, don't get.
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Good old JPA, was wondering it where it had slipped to.
Bank error in your favour, collect 2 lots of pay, but only the portion to my overseas bank not my UK bank - only one set of pay to the UK! Oh, and no pay statement yet!
Bank error in your favour, collect 2 lots of pay, but only the portion to my overseas bank not my UK bank - only one set of pay to the UK! Oh, and no pay statement yet!
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hey
its been a while so i thought i would update you on my JPA woes
well on the HTD front I went back over to my scribbly (this is my fourth time since 21st of feb) , told them i moved out and still wasnt getting my HTD for the last four and a half months, took me and the scribbly 2hours just to allow my address to changed and serveral phone calls to the "unhelpful" desk. Then I discovered that my scribbly could have changed the system so i got my HTD from the 1st April, but i have to wait until the paperwork goes through the "system", that and the 150 the RAF owe me for accomidation charges. However on checking my JPA account am still not eligble for HTD. If i dont see the money in next months pay packet am gonna ask for some sort of redress. I mean its not like its a lot of money to me only 281 quid a month!
Does anyone know why we get taxed on HTD? according to JPA we do? thoughts/advice greatly accepted.
On the leave front, its ace, JPA doesnt acknowledge my leaving date of the 1st Oct, and no one either in PSF or JPA has bothered to sort my leave balance out, result?No one either my line manager, JPA or PSf knows how many days entitlement i have, advice from the scribblies "stick in your passes to your boss on a F295A for the number of days you think have left"
Employment Prefrences:
Being fed up with JPA F
king my life around , I decided to amuse myself with the system, so my areas of employment prefreneces are Cannada/Austrailia/Brussells(NATO) and my employment prefrences are CAS (RAF) /Forward Air Controller (RAF) / War Fighting Policy Writer (RN)
Well my basic training instructor always said aim high lol so I am currently awaiting a phone call telling me am invited to high wycombe to have a infrmal job interview over a cup of earl grey with the CAS........
..... either that or a snot-o-gram from JPA
its been a while so i thought i would update you on my JPA woes
well on the HTD front I went back over to my scribbly (this is my fourth time since 21st of feb) , told them i moved out and still wasnt getting my HTD for the last four and a half months, took me and the scribbly 2hours just to allow my address to changed and serveral phone calls to the "unhelpful" desk. Then I discovered that my scribbly could have changed the system so i got my HTD from the 1st April, but i have to wait until the paperwork goes through the "system", that and the 150 the RAF owe me for accomidation charges. However on checking my JPA account am still not eligble for HTD. If i dont see the money in next months pay packet am gonna ask for some sort of redress. I mean its not like its a lot of money to me only 281 quid a month!
Does anyone know why we get taxed on HTD? according to JPA we do? thoughts/advice greatly accepted.
On the leave front, its ace, JPA doesnt acknowledge my leaving date of the 1st Oct, and no one either in PSF or JPA has bothered to sort my leave balance out, result?No one either my line manager, JPA or PSf knows how many days entitlement i have, advice from the scribblies "stick in your passes to your boss on a F295A for the number of days you think have left"
Employment Prefrences:
Being fed up with JPA F
king my life around , I decided to amuse myself with the system, so my areas of employment prefreneces are Cannada/Austrailia/Brussells(NATO) and my employment prefrences are CAS (RAF) /Forward Air Controller (RAF) / War Fighting Policy Writer (RN)Well my basic training instructor always said aim high lol so I am currently awaiting a phone call telling me am invited to high wycombe to have a infrmal job interview over a cup of earl grey with the CAS........
..... either that or a snot-o-gram from JPA
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Originally Posted by fightingchickenplumb
Does anyone know why we get taxed on HTD? according to JPA we do? thoughts/advice greatly accepted.
04.1302. Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions (NICs). HDT is non-taxable.
Still waiting for my HTD to resume following the introduction of JPA
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promotion boards
Now this may just be conjecture, rumour etc... but a certain trades promotion board results have been delayed (yes they may be a blunt trade but they keep the A/C flying ), 'due to unforseen circumstances'.
I wonder if moving accross to a 'new and improved system' has any bearing on this?
), 'due to unforseen circumstances'.I wonder if moving accross to a 'new and improved system'
has any bearing on this?
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Latest PQ
From Hansard:
Latest Parliamentary Question re JPA, 3 Jul
Joint Personnel Administration
Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of Statefor Defence (1) how many former RAF personnel (a) pensions payments and (b) redundancy payments have been missed since 20 March 2006 under Joint
3 July 2006 : Column 711W
Personnel Administration; and how many are still awaiting payment; [79658]
(2) how many complaints have been received from members of the armed forces about Joint Personnel Administration; [79659]
(3) why RAF personnel were not paid correctly under Joint Personnel Administration; and what action his Department has taken to rectify that situation; [79660]
(4) what he has identified as the main obstacles to the full roll out of Joint Personnel Administration; and what steps his Department is taking to overcome these obstacles; [79824]
(5) how many (a) salary and (b) expense payments to serving RAF personnel have been missed since20 March under Joint Personnel Administration; and how many are still awaiting payment; [79663]
(6) how many people will be remunerated by the Joint Personnel Administration once it is fully rolled out to all services. [79665]
Mr. Watson: Due to the increased numbers of those leaving the RAF in April as a result of the recent redundancy exercise, coupled with the rollout of JPA at the same time, it was not possible to process all terminal grant payments, Special capital payments and pension payments within the normal five days target. During April and May some 1,830 awards were processed for those leaving the RAF, of which 1,395 were paid outside of the five-day target from being discharged. However, in all but six cases payments were made within 30 days, with the remainder paid shortly thereafter. There are now no outstanding payments.
The first JPA payroll in April successfully delivered pay, including allowances and charges to the vast majority of RAF personnel (42,104 out of 48,743). The 6,639 pay inaccuracies (over and underpayments) were caused by several factors: some were due to existing data errors transferred over from the legacy systems, some were input errors, and some were discrepancies in flying pay. The majority of flying pay was correctly paid by 2 May; a small number of RAF personnel were paid their April entitlement in their May payments. The second (May) payroll has been much more successful with only some 1,175 personnel still affected by pay inaccuracies.
Some salary payments were late as a result of the simultaneous introduction of a new system of overseas bank payments. Overseas payments were achieved within a few days of the due date and alternative local cash payments were arranged. There have also been some difficulties with the automated payment of expenses for official journeys. In April these affected nearly 4,000 personnel and in May approximately 600.
The total number of personnel JPA will pay once it is fully rolled out is approximately 280,000. The Armed Forces Personnel Administration Agency has received some 14 pieces of ministerial correspondence on behalf of constituents. As at 21 June 2006 there have been no formal grievances from individual users about JPA.
Full roll-out of JPA is dependent upon the Defence Information Infrastructure (DII) programme. Alternative business processes are being developed for those who will not have self-service access when JPA goes live to their service.
Regards
Ginseng
Latest Parliamentary Question re JPA, 3 Jul
Joint Personnel Administration
Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of Statefor Defence (1) how many former RAF personnel (a) pensions payments and (b) redundancy payments have been missed since 20 March 2006 under Joint
3 July 2006 : Column 711W
Personnel Administration; and how many are still awaiting payment; [79658]
(2) how many complaints have been received from members of the armed forces about Joint Personnel Administration; [79659]
(3) why RAF personnel were not paid correctly under Joint Personnel Administration; and what action his Department has taken to rectify that situation; [79660]
(4) what he has identified as the main obstacles to the full roll out of Joint Personnel Administration; and what steps his Department is taking to overcome these obstacles; [79824]
(5) how many (a) salary and (b) expense payments to serving RAF personnel have been missed since20 March under Joint Personnel Administration; and how many are still awaiting payment; [79663]
(6) how many people will be remunerated by the Joint Personnel Administration once it is fully rolled out to all services. [79665]
Mr. Watson: Due to the increased numbers of those leaving the RAF in April as a result of the recent redundancy exercise, coupled with the rollout of JPA at the same time, it was not possible to process all terminal grant payments, Special capital payments and pension payments within the normal five days target. During April and May some 1,830 awards were processed for those leaving the RAF, of which 1,395 were paid outside of the five-day target from being discharged. However, in all but six cases payments were made within 30 days, with the remainder paid shortly thereafter. There are now no outstanding payments.
The first JPA payroll in April successfully delivered pay, including allowances and charges to the vast majority of RAF personnel (42,104 out of 48,743). The 6,639 pay inaccuracies (over and underpayments) were caused by several factors: some were due to existing data errors transferred over from the legacy systems, some were input errors, and some were discrepancies in flying pay. The majority of flying pay was correctly paid by 2 May; a small number of RAF personnel were paid their April entitlement in their May payments. The second (May) payroll has been much more successful with only some 1,175 personnel still affected by pay inaccuracies.
Some salary payments were late as a result of the simultaneous introduction of a new system of overseas bank payments. Overseas payments were achieved within a few days of the due date and alternative local cash payments were arranged. There have also been some difficulties with the automated payment of expenses for official journeys. In April these affected nearly 4,000 personnel and in May approximately 600.
The total number of personnel JPA will pay once it is fully rolled out is approximately 280,000. The Armed Forces Personnel Administration Agency has received some 14 pieces of ministerial correspondence on behalf of constituents. As at 21 June 2006 there have been no formal grievances from individual users about JPA.
Full roll-out of JPA is dependent upon the Defence Information Infrastructure (DII) programme. Alternative business processes are being developed for those who will not have self-service access when JPA goes live to their service.
Regards
Ginseng
Almost Done, it's not rumour it's definitely true. I speak from experience!
I was also told it was due to "computer problems during data migration".
Still, it's not the winning, it's the taking part....
I was also told it was due to "computer problems during data migration".
Still, it's not the winning, it's the taking part....
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Just a quick question for those of you in the know.
When I leave on Sep 30th (HOORAY) will JPA have anything to do with paying my pension or gratuity? I really hope not, as I need the money
When I leave on Sep 30th (HOORAY) will JPA have anything to do with paying my pension or gratuity? I really hope not, as I need the money
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Well I have not been paid flying pay for 2 months now. Allegedly it will be fixed in the next week. I am also charged for a furnished quarter (I live in unfurnished) and I have been paid my LSSA twice (eased the burden of last months lack of flying pay.
All this has come at a most difficult time workwise and I have had to waste about 3 hours trying to get through to the JPA helpline and get a sensible answer. (I was told that as I 'm in a temporary post - on a course - and therefore should contact my career manager whoever he is!) At least I do have access to JPA and the helpline though.
I think JPA is a good idea in principle but the implementation has been shocking. It is the quickest way to destroy morale - don't pay people and make it near impossible for them to get it sorted out.
All this has come at a most difficult time workwise and I have had to waste about 3 hours trying to get through to the JPA helpline and get a sensible answer. (I was told that as I 'm in a temporary post - on a course - and therefore should contact my career manager whoever he is!) At least I do have access to JPA and the helpline though.
I think JPA is a good idea in principle but the implementation has been shocking. It is the quickest way to destroy morale - don't pay people and make it near impossible for them to get it sorted out.