Use of ex-Service rank titles
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Working Hard said...
"Many years ago I was interviewing for a fairly senior post in my company and the applicant was a retiring Wg Cmdr. When I enquired about his qualification for the job (which had been omitted on his application form) the response was "But I am a Wg Cmdr old chap, that should be all the qualifaction you need" Thank goodness those days are long gone (aren't they?) No one would do that these days!"
Aviate 1138 well remembers my father phoning an ex Army neighbour " Is that you Hodgson?" about some Church Fete matter and hearing my father explode as his neighbour replied "Lt Colonel Hodgson speaking".
My father, bless his heart, replied "If I had wanted to speak to the f***ing War Office I would have dialled the f***ing War Office!" Just about the only time I heard my Old Man swear until I was much older. The Lt Colonel turned out to be a Pay Corps type and never left the UK during WW2.
The post Service Rank thing is fading away isn't it? I know a retired AVM who flew Lightnings at displays [Farnborough etc] that took one's breath away but only those closest to him even know he was in the RAF. He never mentions it. Let alone demands the title.
Aviate 1138
"Many years ago I was interviewing for a fairly senior post in my company and the applicant was a retiring Wg Cmdr. When I enquired about his qualification for the job (which had been omitted on his application form) the response was "But I am a Wg Cmdr old chap, that should be all the qualifaction you need" Thank goodness those days are long gone (aren't they?) No one would do that these days!"
Aviate 1138 well remembers my father phoning an ex Army neighbour " Is that you Hodgson?" about some Church Fete matter and hearing my father explode as his neighbour replied "Lt Colonel Hodgson speaking".
My father, bless his heart, replied "If I had wanted to speak to the f***ing War Office I would have dialled the f***ing War Office!" Just about the only time I heard my Old Man swear until I was much older. The Lt Colonel turned out to be a Pay Corps type and never left the UK during WW2.
The post Service Rank thing is fading away isn't it? I know a retired AVM who flew Lightnings at displays [Farnborough etc] that took one's breath away but only those closest to him even know he was in the RAF. He never mentions it. Let alone demands the title.
Aviate 1138
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Following on from Henry Cruns lead, I did a quick search on the NZ online phonebook. www.whitepages.co.nz
Searches for MAJ, CDR, COL, CAPT etc revealed over 500 people who prefer to be 'titled'.
Over 300 Knights of the Realm (totally justified to be known by their title) and then I searched "Dr"..........and now we have a quandry.
Does one consider non-medical Doctors in the same way...or if they are no longer working in the field of their Doctorate, should they drop the title too?
Storm in a tea cup really isnt it!?
Searches for MAJ, CDR, COL, CAPT etc revealed over 500 people who prefer to be 'titled'.
Over 300 Knights of the Realm (totally justified to be known by their title) and then I searched "Dr"..........and now we have a quandry.
Does one consider non-medical Doctors in the same way...or if they are no longer working in the field of their Doctorate, should they drop the title too?
Storm in a tea cup really isnt it!?
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Originally Posted by WorkingHard
Many years ago I was interviewing for a fairly senior post in my company and the applicant was a retiring Wg Cmdr. When I enquired about his qualification for the job (which had been omitted on his application form) the response was "But I am a Wg Cmdr old chap, that should be all the qualifaction you need" Thank goodness those days are long gone (aren't they?) No one would do that these days!
Erm, not so it would seem based on personal experience. Had a "conversation" with a recruitment "consultant" a couple of years ago and was told, "perfect fit" blah, blah---then came the "oh dear, I see you were only an airman---sorry, but you wouldn't have any project management skills unless you had been an officer"-----not the first time I encountered this perception either. A couple of tertiary level quals plus experience counted for nothing it seemed in his / their perception----only the former rank mattered.
Red On, Green On
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Had a "conversation" with a recruitment "consultant" a couple of years ago and was told, "perfect fit" blah, blah---then came the "oh dear, I see you were only an airman
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I think Archimedes has it absolutely right, if they have earned their rank at the level of RN Captain and above, or equivalent, then let them use it. The example of the two captains he refers to, though fictional, does reveal how some ex officers (although of course both of those chaps were merely Army captains) are perceived by the public. On the whole though, I believe it is a dangerous game advertising your previous service to a country which at best doesn't care anymore and at worst will have you targetted for being associated with some 'military outrage' reported by the excellent and balanced media we seem to have here. 
Before anyone from the Army has a go, I mean 'merely' in terms of how far up the tree the guys are, not that Army commisions should not receive the same respect as the other services, although one does wonder where the inspiration for Peacock and Mainwearing came from.
Bugger, I'll go and find a spade, I think my hole needs digging deeper
Before anyone from the Army has a go, I mean 'merely' in terms of how far up the tree the guys are, not that Army commisions should not receive the same respect as the other services, although one does wonder where the inspiration for Peacock and Mainwearing came from.
Bugger, I'll go and find a spade, I think my hole needs digging deeper
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I tend to find with any custom like this those who deserve it most tend to shy away from the attention, whilst those who don't, remind everyone at every oppportunity and insist on the ettiquette being applied.
"Do you know who I am?!!!"
"No, now fcuk off"
"Do you know who I am?!!!"
"No, now fcuk off"
Last edited by Talking Radalt; 18th Feb 2006 at 11:19.
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Following on from Krystal n Chips post.
Would you really want to work for a company that was so narrow minded that they couldn't see past the rank and look at your actual qualifications and experience?
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a company out there who would also say "Oh, you were only a Flt Lt!!".
Would you really want to work for a company that was so narrow minded that they couldn't see past the rank and look at your actual qualifications and experience?
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a company out there who would also say "Oh, you were only a Flt Lt!!".
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My own experience is that the ex-senior officers using their titles are often on the sales side of the businees and use their old rank as a lever to get in to places that your average sales manager would struggle with. However, unless you are good at what you do your new career will last as long as your contacts from your previous life are in influential posts, then its off to the allotment.
Outside of that, you may be viewed as an anachronism and may be laughed at by employees who are now too young to have done active service and have no concept of rank. Particularly the yoof who think that Wing Commander is a Playstation game.
Other than that, rank may place you on a career path when you first leave but your own abilities carry you after that. Like AA, I have seen many ex SNCOs do very well when they leave, many just lack the confidence to pitch themselves when they first leave. Likewise, some senior ex-officers struggle to adapt to a different world. Carrying your rank outside is double edge sword and I would advise that you are selective how you use it.
regards
retard
Outside of that, you may be viewed as an anachronism and may be laughed at by employees who are now too young to have done active service and have no concept of rank. Particularly the yoof who think that Wing Commander is a Playstation game.
Other than that, rank may place you on a career path when you first leave but your own abilities carry you after that. Like AA, I have seen many ex SNCOs do very well when they leave, many just lack the confidence to pitch themselves when they first leave. Likewise, some senior ex-officers struggle to adapt to a different world. Carrying your rank outside is double edge sword and I would advise that you are selective how you use it.
regards
retard
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I just feel it is very sad that some (some mark you) have not been taught or learnt that life and respect outside is very dependant on your abilities and not on your last post. Those few who leave the Services with the belief they are God's gift to the nation are, thankfully, few and far between. They do however have a disproportionate effect on the perception of the many who never experienced Service life and the way we are viewed.
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My own experience is that it's a generational thing:
My father-in-law joined his regt from Sandhurst in 1938 - by 1941 (aged 21) he was an acting Major in Burma, and left the Army as a Major, and was always known as Major Bloggs. My father left Dartmouth at 18 in 1951, and retired as a Captain. He never used his rank again. His boss discovered he had a CBE and told him to re-print his business cards with it on!
My FiL had a tough and nasty war, and left with only campaign medals - his rank was the only sign he'd served his country. My father served entirely in peacetime, with the exception of some skirmishes early in his career, and the FI in 82, in which he played a significant, but UK desk-driving role.
My father-in-law joined his regt from Sandhurst in 1938 - by 1941 (aged 21) he was an acting Major in Burma, and left the Army as a Major, and was always known as Major Bloggs. My father left Dartmouth at 18 in 1951, and retired as a Captain. He never used his rank again. His boss discovered he had a CBE and told him to re-print his business cards with it on!
My FiL had a tough and nasty war, and left with only campaign medals - his rank was the only sign he'd served his country. My father served entirely in peacetime, with the exception of some skirmishes early in his career, and the FI in 82, in which he played a significant, but UK desk-driving role.
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Mmmm, thanks to all for the interesting contributions.
I started the thread to emphasise what I see as an increasing frequency of the honorific title useage. If QR's state it's a (qualified) right then, I suppose, you can carry on playing with it.
However, as numerous posters have pointed out--don't expect la gloire to carry over into civilian life. It is that, essentially somewhat arrogant, attitude that causes so much surprise when said ex-officer finds he doesn't have the managerial or commercial nous to make the grade.
To compensate, we engaged an excellent Support manager a couple of years ago--only found out last month (I didn't interview him) that he is an ex-RN Weapons engineer (Lt.Cmdr). He runs an excellent division and I'll have him as a Director pretty soon. It all depends on attitude as well as ability.
Petitfromage (now there's a Freudian slip for you!) seems to think I'm some sort of class warrior. Hardly, old chap, just the minor public schoolboy's attitude to fairness coming out.
Yes, I'm an ex-SNCO, who was just fascinated by navigation electronics--and remain so. I wasn't going to give up having my hands deep inside the surreal innards of a GPI Mk.4 (ahhh--the Secant gear!) for a couple of rings on the sleeve and a desk full of paper. My choice, and my career ambitions have been realised elewhere, in civilian life as a director of several companies.
I started the thread to emphasise what I see as an increasing frequency of the honorific title useage. If QR's state it's a (qualified) right then, I suppose, you can carry on playing with it.
However, as numerous posters have pointed out--don't expect la gloire to carry over into civilian life. It is that, essentially somewhat arrogant, attitude that causes so much surprise when said ex-officer finds he doesn't have the managerial or commercial nous to make the grade.
To compensate, we engaged an excellent Support manager a couple of years ago--only found out last month (I didn't interview him) that he is an ex-RN Weapons engineer (Lt.Cmdr). He runs an excellent division and I'll have him as a Director pretty soon. It all depends on attitude as well as ability.
Petitfromage (now there's a Freudian slip for you!) seems to think I'm some sort of class warrior. Hardly, old chap, just the minor public schoolboy's attitude to fairness coming out.
Yes, I'm an ex-SNCO, who was just fascinated by navigation electronics--and remain so. I wasn't going to give up having my hands deep inside the surreal innards of a GPI Mk.4 (ahhh--the Secant gear!) for a couple of rings on the sleeve and a desk full of paper. My choice, and my career ambitions have been realised elewhere, in civilian life as a director of several companies.
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Originally Posted by Kitbag
Pigsinspace, please read the whole thread, rank does not stop at the camp gates and nor should it.
Try telling your next door neighbour ( I do not mean married quaters) you are Sqn Ldr Blah.. he will be very impressed..
what makes you think that you are different to anyone else with a (rank) ie MD, supervisor, charge hand etc?
You leave the service you leave behind the rank ( unless you need it as a crutch)
how many ex arline pilots still call themselves Captain? or First Officer?
RAF Officers:
When placed on the retired list you will retain your substantive rank or if you have held higher acting rank you may qualify for retention of that rank under QR 3002. The retired list, which is published every 2 years, includes details of all such officers.
You are entitled to use and to be addressed by your rank after being placed on the retired list. There is no obligation to use 'RAF Ret'd' after your name provided 'RAF' is not used alone, but you would be expected to use 'RAF Ret'd' should you express personal views on subjects to avoid mistaken attribution to the MoD.
When leaving the RAF or on completion of your reserve service, you may be permitted to retain, as a courtesy title in civilian life, your substantive rank providing you are of the rank of Flight Lieutenant or above and have completed at least 3 years on the Active List. If you have held higher acting rank you may qualify for retention of that rank under QR 3002 which gives the general rules.
When placed on the retired list you will retain your substantive rank or if you have held higher acting rank you may qualify for retention of that rank under QR 3002. The retired list, which is published every 2 years, includes details of all such officers.
You are entitled to use and to be addressed by your rank after being placed on the retired list. There is no obligation to use 'RAF Ret'd' after your name provided 'RAF' is not used alone, but you would be expected to use 'RAF Ret'd' should you express personal views on subjects to avoid mistaken attribution to the MoD.
When leaving the RAF or on completion of your reserve service, you may be permitted to retain, as a courtesy title in civilian life, your substantive rank providing you are of the rank of Flight Lieutenant or above and have completed at least 3 years on the Active List. If you have held higher acting rank you may qualify for retention of that rank under QR 3002 which gives the general rules.
