Use of ex-Service rank titles
Soddim,
It is not the remembrance of past glories that is the issue....more like the pompous piece of fecal matter that was a total tosser in the mob....carrying on like he was something else while outside the mob. Thus far...when someone tells me of their "rank"...without being asked....it only goes to identify a real wan.ker.
Somehow I find a Private's service no less noble than that of someone with Flag rank. As it was said one time....victory was achieved by the "guts" behind a bayonet.
If the guy wants to use his former rank...who cares what rank he was....what matters is what kind of soldier was he. I still don't understand why a former British employer would never use my postscripts as they did one of their own....all I rated was an "Esq." despite telling them of my VD with Scar.
It is not the remembrance of past glories that is the issue....more like the pompous piece of fecal matter that was a total tosser in the mob....carrying on like he was something else while outside the mob. Thus far...when someone tells me of their "rank"...without being asked....it only goes to identify a real wan.ker.
Somehow I find a Private's service no less noble than that of someone with Flag rank. As it was said one time....victory was achieved by the "guts" behind a bayonet.
If the guy wants to use his former rank...who cares what rank he was....what matters is what kind of soldier was he. I still don't understand why a former British employer would never use my postscripts as they did one of their own....all I rated was an "Esq." despite telling them of my VD with Scar.
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Lasernigel
Think you'll find its captain in the Army. And why are you deprecating your having been in the REME? Without your lot none of our expensive kit would work. For God's sake, be PROUD of who and what we are/were! Unless you're a gunner of course!
Think you'll find its captain in the Army. And why are you deprecating your having been in the REME? Without your lot none of our expensive kit would work. For God's sake, be PROUD of who and what we are/were! Unless you're a gunner of course!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Clockwork Mouse, I agree with LaserNigel's thoughts but Archimedes quoted the authority that Captains were included.
I had thought that RAF Flt Lt were the only ones at that rank who could retain their rank.
Both of us wrong, naturally.
I had thought that RAF Flt Lt were the only ones at that rank who could retain their rank.
Both of us wrong, naturally.
Gentleman Aviator
I wonder how many dissenters/criticisers would raise this face-to-face with the likes of "Colonel" Tim Collins or similar.....
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Maybe a thread divert to valid use of military rank on retirement?
Paddy Hine, Tim Collins, Paddy Ashton, Tony Blair
Paddy Hine, Tim Collins, Paddy Ashton, Tony Blair
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Clockwork Mouse:-
Far from denigrating the use of the honorific per se, if you read my starting post, you will see that I only criticise those ex-officers who seem to assume that their service rank carries automatic qualities when looking for a job or new career as a civilian.
I do not care what social use the title is put to, but, again, the implicit assumption that the rank carries an automatic degree of competence in a new career seems to be increasing.
The ex-officers who I see to interview are a mix of those at the 12/16 point, or whatever it's called nowadays, or in their 40's, so the phenomenon is not confined to "blimps".
Likewise, it is sometimes easy to spot beforehand. A lot of CV's arrive from ex-service commisioned ranks, and (a rough and ready estimate) about 30% start off with e.g. "CV of Group Captain Smith"......which invites a certain response from me (see first post again ) This percentage seems to be increasing, which was the point of this thread.
Far from denigrating the use of the honorific per se, if you read my starting post, you will see that I only criticise those ex-officers who seem to assume that their service rank carries automatic qualities when looking for a job or new career as a civilian.
I do not care what social use the title is put to, but, again, the implicit assumption that the rank carries an automatic degree of competence in a new career seems to be increasing.
The ex-officers who I see to interview are a mix of those at the 12/16 point, or whatever it's called nowadays, or in their 40's, so the phenomenon is not confined to "blimps".
Likewise, it is sometimes easy to spot beforehand. A lot of CV's arrive from ex-service commisioned ranks, and (a rough and ready estimate) about 30% start off with e.g. "CV of Group Captain Smith"......which invites a certain response from me (see first post again
) This percentage seems to be increasing, which was the point of this thread.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
LFittNI,
I am glad you moved the thread back to rank.
We had a job application from a WO of a particular trade. His credentials were no doubt first rate and would have got him many plum jobs through PMA.
While the manager, to whom he applied for a job, knew roughly what a warrant officer was - ask any dark blue and they will probably give you the same opinion of RAF WO - and he knew what MT stood for, the man was already two strikes down.
The CV, OTOH, was pure job suicide. His qualifications were all numbers prefixed by "F" and we did not have the decode. What it did not tell us was whether he could operate a tractor, JCB, or service a tank. Nor did he appear to have civilian licences to operate power tools.
Simple skills that he no doubt mastered in the RAF but "WO q this and that" was just as damming as I was "OC Eng Wg, of course I can run your parts shop."
True story:
Ex-RN Lt Cdr starts a Land Rover refurbishment company. Needs a storeman and employs an army Lieutenant. In no time army Lt is making a profit selling on recovered stores surplus to core. Good thing ex-military officers. Needs an office manager - employed a retired flt lt.
Flt Lt had an office. Door always open. People could come and see him any time.
Office manager did not fit parts to Land Rovers, did not recover parts to stores nor pack parts for despatch, did not last long.
The moral? The rank does tell you something if you know the decode and can both warn you off or attract you if you know that that individual should have the attributes you need.
I am glad you moved the thread back to rank.
We had a job application from a WO of a particular trade. His credentials were no doubt first rate and would have got him many plum jobs through PMA.
While the manager, to whom he applied for a job, knew roughly what a warrant officer was - ask any dark blue and they will probably give you the same opinion of RAF WO - and he knew what MT stood for, the man was already two strikes down.
The CV, OTOH, was pure job suicide. His qualifications were all numbers prefixed by "F" and we did not have the decode. What it did not tell us was whether he could operate a tractor, JCB, or service a tank. Nor did he appear to have civilian licences to operate power tools.
Simple skills that he no doubt mastered in the RAF but "WO q this and that" was just as damming as I was "OC Eng Wg, of course I can run your parts shop."
True story:
Ex-RN Lt Cdr starts a Land Rover refurbishment company. Needs a storeman and employs an army Lieutenant. In no time army Lt is making a profit selling on recovered stores surplus to core. Good thing ex-military officers. Needs an office manager - employed a retired flt lt.
Flt Lt had an office. Door always open. People could come and see him any time.
Office manager did not fit parts to Land Rovers, did not recover parts to stores nor pack parts for despatch, did not last long.
The moral? The rank does tell you something if you know the decode and can both warn you off or attract you if you know that that individual should have the attributes you need.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
LFittNI,
As I re-read your post <<This percentage seems to be increasing, which was the point of this thread.>> something occurred to me. The services outsourced retirement training to Right Associates. If they still have the contract you are probably getting a RA Trained applicant who is simply trotting out the party line.
Next time, ask one why he thinks the rank was relevant. If you can, ask one whom you are actually going to employ, just to avoid an accusation of bias.
As I re-read your post <<This percentage seems to be increasing, which was the point of this thread.>> something occurred to me. The services outsourced retirement training to Right Associates. If they still have the contract you are probably getting a RA Trained applicant who is simply trotting out the party line.
Next time, ask one why he thinks the rank was relevant. If you can, ask one whom you are actually going to employ, just to avoid an accusation of bias.
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Pontius:-
I am greatly obliged to you for this excellent information re. the outsourcing of resettlement training---I had absolutely no idea this was going on! Indeed, perhaps that is the reason for the phenomenon this thread is about. Many thanks.
PS--from your title, I assume that you too are (were) familiar with the marvellous GPI Mk.4, perhaps not the glorious and quite wondrous insides, but at least its use. Ahhhh, brings back memories and smells of Hastings, Britannia, Shack.etc. Not the horrid and soulless Mk.6, naturally!
I am greatly obliged to you for this excellent information re. the outsourcing of resettlement training---I had absolutely no idea this was going on! Indeed, perhaps that is the reason for the phenomenon this thread is about. Many thanks.
PS--from your title, I assume that you too are (were) familiar with the marvellous GPI Mk.4, perhaps not the glorious and quite wondrous insides, but at least its use. Ahhhh, brings back memories and smells of Hastings, Britannia, Shack.etc. Not the horrid and soulless Mk.6, naturally!
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
LFittNI,
We had a job application from a WO of a particular trade. His credentials were no doubt first rate and would have got him many plum jobs through PMA.
While the manager, to whom he applied for a job, knew roughly what a warrant officer was ....
We had a job application from a WO of a particular trade. His credentials were no doubt first rate and would have got him many plum jobs through PMA.
While the manager, to whom he applied for a job, knew roughly what a warrant officer was ....
Aircraft Technician SNCO at job interview: I was a Chief technician ..................
Some months later it turns out that the interviewer thought he was THE chief technician (OC Eng Wg) !
Another interview at an engineering firm: Interviewer, with a serious tone of voice. So, apart from marching men about all day, what else can you do?
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SASless,
Probably because he was British - we just don't show off here about our past indiscretions.
Back to the point of the thread - rank used to be an achievement, not something given for collecting cornflake packet tops. Promotion used to be on merit, not for time served. There used to be a selection process, not a case of filling the quota from the few left serving. Good guys used to stay in, only the dross left early.
Do I make my point?
I still don't understand why a former British employer would never use my postscripts as they did one of their own....all I rated was an "Esq." despite telling them of my VD with Scar.
Back to the point of the thread - rank used to be an achievement, not something given for collecting cornflake packet tops. Promotion used to be on merit, not for time served. There used to be a selection process, not a case of filling the quota from the few left serving. Good guys used to stay in, only the dross left early.
Do I make my point?
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Back to the point of the thread - rank used to be an achievement, not something given for collecting cornflake packet tops. Promotion used to be on merit, not for time served. There used to be a selection process, not a case of filling the quota from the few left serving. Good guys used to stay in, only the dross left early.
Do I make my point?
Do I make my point?
Am I right in thinking that the right to use rank outside the forces goes back to the fact that you bought, so you can keep it?
Father worked for a Lt Col Rtd who insisted on being addressed as Colonel xxxxxx. This man was a pompous twit and I was a bit of a rebel... not once, ever, did I call him Colonel but was always tempted to call him "Lt Col Rtd"
Father was a very proud man and it sickened me to see him almost salute this idiot. Father was a very young Airman at the end of WWII so I guess the rank thing was instilled then.
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Guess I was lucky. Did my bit between the buying and the automatic promotion. Worked for stars and got to be a glimmer. Proud, not overly. Satisfied, yes. Wear what humble rank I got with pride - not on my sleeve or after my name but in my heart - where it counts. Sod the rest who sit and snipe.
soddim
soddim
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Personally, when I leave the mob, I'll carry on working as a 'Mr'.
When I'm retired I'll revert to rank, That way I'll pull all the birds in the retirement home by making sure all the care assistants refer to me as Pilot Officer Il Jong.
Each to his own: what you reap is what you sow. Err or is that sew?
When I'm retired I'll revert to rank, That way I'll pull all the birds in the retirement home by making sure all the care assistants refer to me as Pilot Officer Il Jong.
Each to his own: what you reap is what you sow. Err or is that sew?
Gentleman Aviator
Originally Posted by Kim Il Jong
That way I'll pull all the birds in the retirement home
"For £5," he said, "I'll give you a quickie right here in your rocking chair, for £10 it's a romantic dinner and then into the back of my shooting brake for some fun, but for £20 the dinner will be followed by the excitement of all night in my room!"
The retired WAAF blushed, but nevertheless reached for her purse and produced two £10 notes.
"Aha," said the Major, "I see you're going for the all-night option."
"No" she said, smiling sweetly, "I want it four times in the rocking chair!!"..
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And why are you deprecating your having been in the REME? Without your lot none of our expensive kit would work. For God's sake, be PROUD of who and what we are/were! Unless you're a gunner of course!
Was not a gunner was a (official title) C.E.T. (Eccy) multi qualified not like the new breed who split the trade up.
We did have a housing officer when I was at S.E.E. Arborfield who insisted of keeping his Captains rank as a title.But he was not the norm.
