Use of ex-Service rank titles
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What Flatus Veteranus posted should remind the doubters what a 'can-do' lot the services are. I too had direct experience during Op Corporate of how efficiently and quickly the service could get things done once the purse strings were open and the normal b*lls**t by-passed.
Look further at Gulf War 1 and try to understand the massive logistics achievements, not only ours but the Americans too. I concur with the Wembley Stadium statement. I once had the pleasure of assistance by the RE with a particularly tricky bit of temporary construction in a very tricky part of the World and they starred.
I have yet to see any civilian company or its' employees exhibit such qualities and that includes companies I have worked for staffed by mainly ex-military personnel. Why, because the management stifles their innate abilities - just like many senior officers do in peacetime.
Look further at Gulf War 1 and try to understand the massive logistics achievements, not only ours but the Americans too. I concur with the Wembley Stadium statement. I once had the pleasure of assistance by the RE with a particularly tricky bit of temporary construction in a very tricky part of the World and they starred.
I have yet to see any civilian company or its' employees exhibit such qualities and that includes companies I have worked for staffed by mainly ex-military personnel. Why, because the management stifles their innate abilities - just like many senior officers do in peacetime.
Avoid imitations
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What about ex-services people who wear medal ribbons on their civilian jacket?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Shy Torque, is that a troll? Under what circumstances are you refering?
Properly speaking, at a black tie do, one should not wear ones medals with a DJ. It is however correct to wear them with tails.
Mind you, on a cruise last year, black tie, there were at least two groups, say 6 men, wearing their CDM and bar.
And if you are refering to wearing medals at commemoration services you will note that it is even a uniform do. Dress blazer and grey flannels, appropriate beret to service and skills. Only the RAF is out of step there insisting that RAF Officers do not parage with OR - or rather they do not wear the RAF Officer's beret or other officer's headgear. The RAF contingent is supposed to wear the RAFA forage cap.
Properly speaking, at a black tie do, one should not wear ones medals with a DJ. It is however correct to wear them with tails.
Mind you, on a cruise last year, black tie, there were at least two groups, say 6 men, wearing their CDM and bar.
And if you are refering to wearing medals at commemoration services you will note that it is even a uniform do. Dress blazer and grey flannels, appropriate beret to service and skills. Only the RAF is out of step there insisting that RAF Officers do not parage with OR - or rather they do not wear the RAF Officer's beret or other officer's headgear. The RAF contingent is supposed to wear the RAFA forage cap.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 24th Feb 2006 at 21:27.
Avoid imitations
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No, not a troll, although I have to admit I'm not sure what you mean by that term.
I have noticed that some leave the armed forces and subsequently wear military medal ribbons on a civilian uniform jacket.
I have noticed that some leave the armed forces and subsequently wear military medal ribbons on a civilian uniform jacket.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Shy Torque - troll - deliberately setting out to provoke a response.
Wearing medals on civil 'livery' used to be the norm. The Corps of Commissionares even wear rank - bit like Beefeaters and Chelsea Pensioners.
A chauffeur is another although you rarely see that nowadays.
Police and fire service have medals and ex-servicemen wear theirs in those circumstances and that is uniform.
In the merchant navy they wear theirs. The EPO on the P&O cruise ships I have been on both had chest fulls. One had been on Resource and the other on a T42 in FI.
Wearing medals on civil 'livery' used to be the norm. The Corps of Commissionares even wear rank - bit like Beefeaters and Chelsea Pensioners.
A chauffeur is another although you rarely see that nowadays.
Police and fire service have medals and ex-servicemen wear theirs in those circumstances and that is uniform.
In the merchant navy they wear theirs. The EPO on the P&O cruise ships I have been on both had chest fulls. One had been on Resource and the other on a T42 in FI.
British Airways uniform regs allow the wearing of medal ribbons on the jacket, with management approval, of course. Not that I have seen anybody do so. Probably draw a lot of fire and ridicule.
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Since leaving many years ago, I've worn my little ones on DJ and blazer (good grief) at 'appropriate' occasions - and will always do so. If anyone were pompous enough to challenge me on the day, the response would be brief!
Since leaving many years ago, I've worn my little ones on DJ and blazer (good grief) at 'appropriate' occasions - and will always do so. If anyone were pompous enough to challenge me on the day, the response would be brief!
The RN is less than 45000, There are more police than that in the MET.
RAF: 41000 (by 2008). All three services are less than HALF THE NUMBER OF STAFF WORKING FOR TESCO.
Being a 'manager' in any of the forces no longer carries with it that "special something" in the public eye. It pales into insignifigance in this world of high commerce and technological innovation. There are thousands working for microsoft (for example) who make every bit as much of a contribution as these so called managers in the mil. They don't need to go round reminding everyone else of who they were and what they did in history world?
If you believe you need to advertise what you did in the past to all and sundry - ask your kids what they think.
Let go and join the rest of the world as it glides by.
Lieutenant Commander Rn, Ret'd, CFS, RAeS and bra
RAF: 41000 (by 2008). All three services are less than HALF THE NUMBER OF STAFF WORKING FOR TESCO.
Being a 'manager' in any of the forces no longer carries with it that "special something" in the public eye. It pales into insignifigance in this world of high commerce and technological innovation. There are thousands working for microsoft (for example) who make every bit as much of a contribution as these so called managers in the mil. They don't need to go round reminding everyone else of who they were and what they did in history world?
If you believe you need to advertise what you did in the past to all and sundry - ask your kids what they think.
Let go and join the rest of the world as it glides by.
Lieutenant Commander Rn, Ret'd, CFS, RAeS and bra
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Having experienced both civilian and military employment I can testify that the term 'manager' means something quite different in each. A typical manager in many civilian companies has little to manage but him/herself and, maybe, an office with a contract cleaner. A manager in HM Forces is responsible not just for the work functions of at least several personnel but also their welfare, career progression and, in conflict, their lives.
If we get to the level of senior management comparison we see in the services lots of risk but only standard reward - in industry a fat cat salary accompanies risk and a bonus scheme usually kicks in if the company achieves normally mundane performance.
I guess we are really discussing the difference between service and self-service.
If we get to the level of senior management comparison we see in the services lots of risk but only standard reward - in industry a fat cat salary accompanies risk and a bonus scheme usually kicks in if the company achieves normally mundane performance.
I guess we are really discussing the difference between service and self-service.
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I gave up using my rank when the IRA were active and eventually managed to discourage people (including my bank) from sending me letters with my rank in the address. Nowadays I only climb into my pinstripe and polish up my gongs (2) once a year - for the village Rembrance Sunday service. A dwindling number of others (some with rows of gongs) do the same. I believe we owe it to the memory of those whose names are read out to put on the best possible show.
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Reminds me of an old nemessis of mine in deepest darkest. He was a Colonel (national airforce) retd. He used to insist that he be introduced on the pa as Colonel Captain. He Was a subordinate on my fleet. When i signed an acn specifically to address his bullish behaviour toward cabin crew , I did so as LCPL retd. That got him really mad. However it wasnt until he signed one of his own memos RETD and someone put in brackets RETARDED, that the sh1t hit the fan. Nearly cost a few vanillas their work permits, but worth it. What a kn0b.
Once also flew my old troopy on a flight. He spent the whole flight talking to the f/o about staff college. I read a book.Okay ya, super.
It was the army's loss not mine.
Ps would have made sergeant but got busted three times.
Bottom line its not the rank its the quality of person that counts. The Mil is an enviroment where obedience is contracted not voluntary, so the managers have no real world yardstick of their abiilities until leaving. And so it goes....
Once also flew my old troopy on a flight. He spent the whole flight talking to the f/o about staff college. I read a book.Okay ya, super.
It was the army's loss not mine.
Ps would have made sergeant but got busted three times.
Bottom line its not the rank its the quality of person that counts. The Mil is an enviroment where obedience is contracted not voluntary, so the managers have no real world yardstick of their abiilities until leaving. And so it goes....
