Retainment or recruitment?
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Retainment or recruitment?
Whilst there has been a lot in the news over recent years about air crew shortages the focus was on experienced pilots leaving the service.
With this in mind you would expect the RAF to have a large recruitment drive.
I was lucky enough to be awarded a sixth form scholarship and subject to grades a university bursary, needless to say i was stoked.
Having obtained a scholarship i expected the local careers office would be in close contact and at the start they were and there was a photo shoot for the local papers etc. Since then the only contact i have had from the RAF is an a-level grade request form.
I applied for a flying scholarship but was put the reserves list, so i have not flown for a year despite being a memeber of CCF.
I lost intrest in the RAF and declined the scholarship and i dont think that i am the only one.
The point being there was so much that they could have done which would have kept me interested and keen.
I just think that maybe the recruiters need to change the way they recruit, especially when you compare what some companies are offering students/graduates.
With this in mind you would expect the RAF to have a large recruitment drive.
I was lucky enough to be awarded a sixth form scholarship and subject to grades a university bursary, needless to say i was stoked.
Having obtained a scholarship i expected the local careers office would be in close contact and at the start they were and there was a photo shoot for the local papers etc. Since then the only contact i have had from the RAF is an a-level grade request form.
I applied for a flying scholarship but was put the reserves list, so i have not flown for a year despite being a memeber of CCF.
I lost intrest in the RAF and declined the scholarship and i dont think that i am the only one.
The point being there was so much that they could have done which would have kept me interested and keen.
I just think that maybe the recruiters need to change the way they recruit, especially when you compare what some companies are offering students/graduates.
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fuzz,
I think you may have just opened yourself up for a whole load of abuse here....
Not aircrew myself, but at a guess, those that want to fly in HMFC apply generally to fly FJ. And fair enough, there are certain levels of sponsorship on offer, but that should not be the basis of one joining the forces for a career. Interested to know 'what some companies' would allow you to fly at 420kts at 250ft. Haven't done it myself, but it must be simply awesome!
BK
I think you may have just opened yourself up for a whole load of abuse here....
I just think that maybe the recruiters need to change the way they recruit, especially when you compare what some companies are offering students/graduates.
BK
Gentleman Aviator
Oh dear oh dear oh dear....
not abuse as such, but a clarification of parameters. Military flying, in whatever colour of uniform, cannot in any shape fashion or form be compared to
If you truly want to fly military aircraft, every other job must come a very poor second to that - and it requires 110% application, even before you join.
The AFCO might not have done much, but you seem to have done less, ie nowt. Why weren't you hassling them about their inaction? Hey mate, where's my Grob/Tucano/Hawk/Typhoon then?? Any chance of work experience anywhere? When can I go to Cranwell? etc etc
Yes, recruiting, especially FJ recruiting is down, but that doesn't mean it's non existant. And even when IPS figures were much higher, I don't think AFCOs were ever closely following up A level wannabees who
in what appears to have been a hissy fit over lack of contact. (Or did you have something better to do? What could possibly be better than free flying for a teenager??)
Sorry sunshine, but I don't think the RAF (FAA/AAC) have missed very much in this particular case.
Verbum sat sapientis as they used to say at 2FTS. Having been to a good school fuzzmaster (CCF and all that), you might even understand what it means...........
not abuse as such, but a clarification of parameters. Military flying, in whatever colour of uniform, cannot in any shape fashion or form be compared to
some companies
The AFCO might not have done much, but you seem to have done less, ie nowt. Why weren't you hassling them about their inaction? Hey mate, where's my Grob/Tucano/Hawk/Typhoon then?? Any chance of work experience anywhere? When can I go to Cranwell? etc etc
Yes, recruiting, especially FJ recruiting is down, but that doesn't mean it's non existant. And even when IPS figures were much higher, I don't think AFCOs were ever closely following up A level wannabees who
declined the (flying) scholarship
Sorry sunshine, but I don't think the RAF (FAA/AAC) have missed very much in this particular case.
Verbum sat sapientis as they used to say at 2FTS. Having been to a good school fuzzmaster (CCF and all that), you might even understand what it means...........
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fuzz,
The RAF get 8-10,000 applicants for pilot every year. Historically they have tended to select 30-200 of those depending on their requirements. In short my friend, they can afford to be VERY selective. Now put your teddys back in the cot, and either roll your sleeves up or find something else to do with your life!!
S15
The RAF get 8-10,000 applicants for pilot every year. Historically they have tended to select 30-200 of those depending on their requirements. In short my friend, they can afford to be VERY selective. Now put your teddys back in the cot, and either roll your sleeves up or find something else to do with your life!!
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Teetering head
Got there first d@mmit!
To add a bit though (and at the risk of abuse from ABIW and Beags!):
The Services are NOT like "some companies"where you get to "concentrate your core competencies in a going forward manner and screw all your mates who are trying to do the same then go home at 5 and never have to give a bit extra (like being on QRA on a Sunday for instance!). The Services are a team game, and it often demands huge sacrifies of you and your family, meaning that you have to want to be there. If you think the life is easy and its just another job with wings on, all you'll be doing is joining the other chisellers that take the money but still whinge and make life less enjoyable for those of us that actually want to be here.
Go join "some other company"
And another thing - its retention not retainment!
Got there first d@mmit!
To add a bit though (and at the risk of abuse from ABIW and Beags!):
The Services are NOT like "some companies"where you get to "concentrate your core competencies in a going forward manner and screw all your mates who are trying to do the same then go home at 5 and never have to give a bit extra (like being on QRA on a Sunday for instance!). The Services are a team game, and it often demands huge sacrifies of you and your family, meaning that you have to want to be there. If you think the life is easy and its just another job with wings on, all you'll be doing is joining the other chisellers that take the money but still whinge and make life less enjoyable for those of us that actually want to be here.
Go join "some other company"
And another thing - its retention not retainment!
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The thing is that the RAF will loose alot of potentially good pilots because although people are dedicated and focused and do want to fly more than anything, they are not stupid and will look at other opportunities which are more attractive, especially when you account for the length of commitment.
Do not get me wrong I am not angry with the RAF, i chose to decline the scholarship because i did not want to do it any more since the commitment seemed too long.
Instead i am saying why dont the RAF offer slightly more support given that at the start of the scholarship most are only 17!
May be allocate them a 'buddy' who is a recent graduate of Cranwell so they can ask questions, or offer them the chance to visit their local base?
And yes i have moved on and found something to do with my life thank you.
Do not get me wrong I am not angry with the RAF, i chose to decline the scholarship because i did not want to do it any more since the commitment seemed too long.
Instead i am saying why dont the RAF offer slightly more support given that at the start of the scholarship most are only 17!
May be allocate them a 'buddy' who is a recent graduate of Cranwell so they can ask questions, or offer them the chance to visit their local base?
And yes i have moved on and found something to do with my life thank you.
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With between 8000-10000 to choose from, it does not matter if they loose what you consider to be potentially good pilots. This is not a 9-5 job managing at tescos, the Armed Forces recruit individuals willing to give far more than their time if the job requires it. besides, there are plenty of kids out there begging to get in, and do what they consider to be their dream job. So why waste money on incentivising recruitment when we have thousands willing to go through the faff of selection?
If you are unsure of the length of service, or know anyone who at the application stage is unwilling to do this period of service, I would suggest this job will not be for them.
If you are unsure of the length of service, or know anyone who at the application stage is unwilling to do this period of service, I would suggest this job will not be for them.
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they are not stupid and will look at other opportunities which are more attractive
especially when you account for the length of commitment
i chose to decline the scholarship because i did not want to do it any more since the commitment seemed too long
BK
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A few Points:
Firstly Santiago15, Quote "VERY SELECTIVE". If they are very selective then why not put the effort in to keep those that they have selected?
Secondly Teetering Head: Let me clear this up, at the most basic of levels joining the RAF is career as is joining another branch of the armed forces or a company. All require levels of commitment and attainment.
Whilst free flying is great for a teenager how many years of the scholarship would i be teenager? 3! So i would not have left university till i was 22 and then 12 years commitment again not too appealing.
Actually i think that the RAF have missed alot in my case, given my aptitude etc, and the hundreds like me and yes i did have somehting better do I was awarded a shcolarship from a leading missile manufacture (MBDA, http://www.mbdacareers.co.uk/young.asp and click on engineering scholarship) which is why i declined the RAF scholarship.
Firstly Santiago15, Quote "VERY SELECTIVE". If they are very selective then why not put the effort in to keep those that they have selected?
Secondly Teetering Head: Let me clear this up, at the most basic of levels joining the RAF is career as is joining another branch of the armed forces or a company. All require levels of commitment and attainment.
Whilst free flying is great for a teenager how many years of the scholarship would i be teenager? 3! So i would not have left university till i was 22 and then 12 years commitment again not too appealing.
Actually i think that the RAF have missed alot in my case, given my aptitude etc, and the hundreds like me and yes i did have somehting better do I was awarded a shcolarship from a leading missile manufacture (MBDA, http://www.mbdacareers.co.uk/young.asp and click on engineering scholarship) which is why i declined the RAF scholarship.
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A few Points: Firstly Santiago15.......Secondly Teetering Head
Maybe the RAF recruiters knew exactly what they were doing by not contacting you every five minutes....
BK
Very well done on getting your 'shcolarship' mate, use it well for you have demonstrated no qualities that the RAF look for in potential fast-jet pilots.
Where is your keen Interest? Where is your Commitment? Where are your high Academic standards?
I'm afraid that whinging, immodest, illiterate, impatient teenagers are not what we need. We are so overborne with multi-engine pilots and soon-to-be-reroled Jag pilots: WHY should we be recruiting at all?
I see the need to recruit doctors and engineers, these guys really do get poached by other companies and they deserve sponsorship to get them to commit to a poorly-paid ground job in the RAF. But Pilot? This job sells itself, we don't need to sell it to anyone.
You say the RAF missed out by not ringing you up at home and actively recruiting you.... I think that you alone are convinced by that. Do yourself a favour and don't become like the thousands of sad blokes in the pub who claim that they were the one in black on the balcony of the Iranian Embassy in 1980. You will be the only one who believes your sad tales of woe.
Where is your keen Interest? Where is your Commitment? Where are your high Academic standards?
I'm afraid that whinging, immodest, illiterate, impatient teenagers are not what we need. We are so overborne with multi-engine pilots and soon-to-be-reroled Jag pilots: WHY should we be recruiting at all?
I see the need to recruit doctors and engineers, these guys really do get poached by other companies and they deserve sponsorship to get them to commit to a poorly-paid ground job in the RAF. But Pilot? This job sells itself, we don't need to sell it to anyone.
You say the RAF missed out by not ringing you up at home and actively recruiting you.... I think that you alone are convinced by that. Do yourself a favour and don't become like the thousands of sad blokes in the pub who claim that they were the one in black on the balcony of the Iranian Embassy in 1980. You will be the only one who believes your sad tales of woe.
If you can seriously think that an engineering scholarship with MBDA represents 'something better' than flying in the RAF then you're deluded, and you're certainly not the kind of person that the RAF wants or needs.
They need dedicated, enthusiastic, self-motivated people with a burning desire to fly and to be RAF officers, and the fact that you claim to have turned down a sixth form scholarship simply proves that you do not have the 'right stuff'.
You may "think that the RAF have missed a lot in your case", but I would suggest that your sloppy standards in written English, your misplaced (arrogant) faith in your own abilities and your lack of commitment lead me to wonder what on earth anyone was thinking in offering you a scholarship in the first place. At least no-one compounded the error by giving you a flying scholarship, though the fact that you were put on the 'reserve list' suggests that OASC are doing a very poor job.
I don't want to be entirely negative, and wish you well with MBDA. I'd also say that your suggestion that scholarship winners should be allocated a 'buddy' who is a recent graduate of Cranwell would seem to have some merit.
They need dedicated, enthusiastic, self-motivated people with a burning desire to fly and to be RAF officers, and the fact that you claim to have turned down a sixth form scholarship simply proves that you do not have the 'right stuff'.
You may "think that the RAF have missed a lot in your case", but I would suggest that your sloppy standards in written English, your misplaced (arrogant) faith in your own abilities and your lack of commitment lead me to wonder what on earth anyone was thinking in offering you a scholarship in the first place. At least no-one compounded the error by giving you a flying scholarship, though the fact that you were put on the 'reserve list' suggests that OASC are doing a very poor job.
I don't want to be entirely negative, and wish you well with MBDA. I'd also say that your suggestion that scholarship winners should be allocated a 'buddy' who is a recent graduate of Cranwell would seem to have some merit.
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My commitment is to myself not to the RAF or any one else. I made my choice based on my aspirations and what i wanted to do. I wanted to be a pilot once but changed my mind may be the AFCO were right in contacting me because it will cull those who are not commited to the cause. Although do not forget that the RAF recruits both those who want to join the RAF and those who only want to fly. Needless to say which one i was, but those of you who are in my situation stop and ask yourself do you want to fly and enjoy the RAF or do you want to fly so much you are willing to put up with the armed forces and their way of life. If you are the later one then take it form me you will tear yourself up until you realise may be it is not for you.
Thanks to Mosspigs for the career advice but im sorted for the next seven years but maybe after that which do you think, Mcdonalds or Burger King?
Thanks to Mosspigs for the career advice but im sorted for the next seven years but maybe after that which do you think, Mcdonalds or Burger King?
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is not a 9-5 job managing at tescos, the Armed Forces recruit individuals willing to give far more than their time if the job requires it
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I wanted to be a pilot once but changed my mind may be the AFCO were right in contacting me because it will cull those who are not commited to the cause.
uknasa,
Take your point, people still have to work hard outside the RAF, however, since leaving after your 9 years, has your civvie company asked you to go to work in Basrah City, for 3 1/2 months, working between 12 and 18 hours a day in 53 degrees centigrade? Only 3 days off in that time, and a day off meant getting up at 6am to get down to Kuwait, not getting back until 11pm? No?..... Thought not!
BK
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My high academic grades are AAAA at A-level in math, physics, technology and As-further math.
Jackonicko: How does 'claiming' to have turned down a scholarship prove i have not got the right stuff.
Yes my written english is not the best on this forum but my faith is certainly not misplaced. I was commited during my CCF time i did/applied for evey course i could, including a gliding scholarship and the cadet leadership course both of which i passed (oh and if i forgot to say i was recommended to go on to train for my gold wings).
Training Risky: I have already addressed your concern for my grades. I am not moaning or whinging but why not change the recruitment system? Why not offer more support or career guidance? Do not forget that at the age of 17 the prospect of any long term commitment is daunting. I mean at Univeristy you have UAS and they meet once a week and their members talk to their Officers about a balance between study and UAS time so why not talk to them before they go to uni.
I am not alone in this, an officer from Loughborough Uni came down to my school on a recruitment visit. His told me to do what i wanted to at uni and not get over committed with UAS because at the end of the day the RAF had already recruited me and the focus was on those who had not yet been recruited.
At the end of the day i held up my hand and said the RAF is not for me, i am not trying to moan or make excuses as many others complete their scholarships and enjoy them, but i did not and wanted to express my opinion. I wanted to fly more than most but i could not join the armed forces, you may say if you wanted to fly so much why did you not just put up with the way of life. The answer is that i could not.
Jackonicko: How does 'claiming' to have turned down a scholarship prove i have not got the right stuff.
Yes my written english is not the best on this forum but my faith is certainly not misplaced. I was commited during my CCF time i did/applied for evey course i could, including a gliding scholarship and the cadet leadership course both of which i passed (oh and if i forgot to say i was recommended to go on to train for my gold wings).
Training Risky: I have already addressed your concern for my grades. I am not moaning or whinging but why not change the recruitment system? Why not offer more support or career guidance? Do not forget that at the age of 17 the prospect of any long term commitment is daunting. I mean at Univeristy you have UAS and they meet once a week and their members talk to their Officers about a balance between study and UAS time so why not talk to them before they go to uni.
I am not alone in this, an officer from Loughborough Uni came down to my school on a recruitment visit. His told me to do what i wanted to at uni and not get over committed with UAS because at the end of the day the RAF had already recruited me and the focus was on those who had not yet been recruited.
At the end of the day i held up my hand and said the RAF is not for me, i am not trying to moan or make excuses as many others complete their scholarships and enjoy them, but i did not and wanted to express my opinion. I wanted to fly more than most but i could not join the armed forces, you may say if you wanted to fly so much why did you not just put up with the way of life. The answer is that i could not.
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Fuzz,
Appreciate the frankness of your last message (although there may be a few sniggers about being offered 'Gold Wings'). I feel that the point of your first post has been lost!
Maybe it should read...... Decided not to go for RAF, but really enjoy flying, anyone know where I can get some cheap, fun, flying around here??? Well, if you are off to do the missile thingy at Stevenage, pop up to Henlow and fly with me in a vintage Bi-plane! Thats REAL flying! (Stands back for oodles of abuse)
BK
Appreciate the frankness of your last message (although there may be a few sniggers about being offered 'Gold Wings'). I feel that the point of your first post has been lost!
Maybe it should read...... Decided not to go for RAF, but really enjoy flying, anyone know where I can get some cheap, fun, flying around here??? Well, if you are off to do the missile thingy at Stevenage, pop up to Henlow and fly with me in a vintage Bi-plane! Thats REAL flying! (Stands back for oodles of abuse)
BK
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"I haven't flown for a year" - so did you get down the local flying club and bum a ride off a member, did you get a part-time job to earn money for some lessons at the club? Did you get down to a gliding club and help on the ground in return for a free launch?
I hate to sound like an old fart (no problems, because I know I am one) but I did all of the above, and more, and that's part of the reason I got a flying scholarship, through AIB etc. and into the Navy.
It's called ambition and initiative, and it goes down very well in the Services, I found.
I hate to sound like an old fart (no problems, because I know I am one) but I did all of the above, and more, and that's part of the reason I got a flying scholarship, through AIB etc. and into the Navy.
It's called ambition and initiative, and it goes down very well in the Services, I found.
Gentleman Aviator
Sorry sunshine, but I don't think the RAF (FAA/AAC) have missed very much in this particular case.
