Movers v Loadies (Merged)

[FFP]

Very true Zulu Hotel . . . . . . .

Even better though, look further at the title of this thread. Movers Vs Loadies. So, pray tell, what the f@*k are riggers and the like coming on here giving it "Top of the Food" chain etc.

Just need to be put back in their place I reckon

[Beeayeate]

FFP typed. . .

"So, pray tell, what the f@*k are riggers and the like coming on here giving it "Top of the Food" chain etc."

'cos it's true, ask any rigger!

Anyway, seems to me we were hearing these arguments back in the 60s and 70s - especially to/from the Belfast blokes. Nothing's changed has it? Except the aircraft. Hang on, there's still Hercs about isn't there? So, it's just the Belfs that are missing.

Recall the time on Gan that this same basic argument caused a little "local trouble" on the island between the movers and a visiting crew. Took a few of the SASFlt blokes to settle it down, as it was getting too noisy and disturbing our renditions of Zulu Warrior - but that's another story.

Never mind, it'll probably still be going in another 30 years or so. Will it ever get sorted?

Remember, the whole point of the RAF, the whole point, is to put a bomb-aimer over an enemy target in times of conflict. Everybody else is just there to support this action, everybody.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Bee,
Sorry for getting excited but my 14 years as a single channel avionics chap, Nav Inst followed by Flt Sys all came floding back............you trade group 1 [e-mail] joking fella

Mk5,

You really need to get out a bit more fella and see a bit more of life otherwise you will find yourself in an early grave. Not sure what trade you are but if all you can come up with are the couple of "slag points" in your last post pray to the heavans above the Pilots, nav's, Eng's and Loadies who read these sheets dont start to fire from the hip...................... got a feeling it wasn't last year or the tall bloke actually............as I believe it was me

Bee

"Remember, the whole point of the RAF, the whole point, is to put a bomb-aimer over an enemy target in times of conflict. Everybody else is just there to support this action, everybody"

In my 29 year experiance, and it's just my humble opinion, only those, in the main, entitled to wear dark blue shirts to work come under the heading "support" although a lot of those are moving with the wind of change.

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Grimweasel]

Always_broken_etc

"Remember, the whole point of the RAF, the whole point, is to put a bomb-aimer over an enemy target in times of conflict. Everybody else is just there to support this action, everybody"

Maybe back in the 80's but I'm sure that a lot on here would beg to differ. What with the modern systems available to the RAF today I'd say that only about 20% of Bomb-aimers over the TGT were used. The RAF now relies heavlly on pre-programmed weapons that search out their target automonosly. Take Storm Shadow and Brimstone for eg. I'm sure that the SH boys would argue that they had a massive part to play in the RAF other than bombs over target?
Take the Logistical fleet too. They are there to provide a service to the 3 services not just the RAF. So I would beg that whole point bit that you pertain too was a little too short sighted, what?

And no 875, I don't recall an air dispatcher ever pranging an aircraft. Far too professional for any of that stuff. As for taking it back off again I think that they are experts at that too? Must be something to do with all that money the army pays!! (Cheers higher rate!!)

Retorts expected and greatly receieved.....

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Apologies Grim..........that will teach me to cut and paste but I still maintain that our main support comes from those in dark blue shirts.............others, again it's my humble opinion, merely set up hoops for us to jump thro' in order to justify their own existance.

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[ZH875]

Mk5!!!, I'm not a shortie

FFP, I am not an aircrew member, I passed the exams and am a Trade Group 2 professional (now awaiting crass comments from seat to stick interface units).

Furthermore FFP, I believe it is the honorable riggers who have to fix what the Loadies and muppets bend, so why shouldn't they have a say on this forum.

ABIW, I be a Mk4.

Bee, "Everybody else is just there to support...." thats the best comment on the whole forum.

[FFP]

If they want to start a "Movers VS Loadies But What About the Riggers "thread, go ahead. It's their right as a "back room boys " (as we're all quoting PPrune rules and eligibility )

All I`m saying is where does it stop? Maybe every branch in the RAF, Army and Navy of all nations would like to post and say they are the best where Movers and loadies are concerned !

Of course riggers are going to be the best in their opinion! And if they were seat to stick interface units I'm sure they would be the best too !!

If I burst in on a Rigger Vs Fairy thread and said "Of course Pilots are top of the food chain ! " I'm sure they too would reach for the old irrelevant button !

Tounge in cheek comment to show their loyalty to the trade and liven up the thread ? Course it was ! As were my comments

No matter what you say the RAF is run by pilots and always will be. Whether it should be or not is a different matter as Pilot does not equal Manager at all.

So, in summary . . . . . . . . . Loadies

[Beeayeate]

ABI Wilts
"Sorry for getting excited but my 14 years as a single channel avionics chap, Nav Inst followed by Flt Sys all came floding back............you trade group 1 tw@t"

OK, good one.

Grim
The ". . . whole point. . ." bit was from me, not Wilts. As for your interpretation, very logical, very "now". But the thrust of the gist concening the nub of my statement was that no matter what way you cut it, the whole point of the RAF is to drop bombs, kill people and break their stuff. Matters not how it's done or who does it, the ultimate purpose is clear. Used to be a bombadier, now it's a bloke with a degree and techy 'tronics kit - the purpose, mission and result is the same now as it has always been. And it's the job of everybody in the RAF to get him into a postion so he can do his stuff.

Wlits
Sorry, don't get the "dark blue shirts" bit. After my time?

FFP
"If I burst in on a Rigger Vs Fairy thread and said "Of course Pilots are top of the food chain ! " I'm sure they too would reach for the old irrelevant button!"

Doubt it, but you may get bantered to h&ll and back though and have to survive on brickdust and visitor's biscuits for a week.

But you're right, other trades, especially riggers, have no business butting in on a movers v loadies cat fight - and neither should, I would suggest, zobbits (seat to stick interface units or self-loading ballast).

As for the mob being run by pilots! Well, it shows old chap, it shows.

875
Thanks.

Anyway, as it was so it still is. This rigger (ex-) is now handing back the cat-fight to those who want to continue with it. Besides, the nurse is coming round in a minute, an' she's a looker tonight, so I've got to hide my Talisker.

[ZH875]

FFP, another wonderfully true statement "No matter what you say the RAF is run by pilots and always will be. Whether it should be or not is a different matter as Pilot does not equal Manager at all."

The sooner Engineers can specify what an aircraft is and should be, then maybe things like C130J, Typhoon and Merlin may have been bought with proper specifications and spares etc.

[FFP]

I agree. We've gone some way towards it with Typhoon by using aircrew in the design stage. Not sure what extent gingers were involved . . . . . . . . .

But anyway, now I'm hijacking this thread !! Back to Loadies Vs Movers (without rigger scum )

[Muppet Leader]

Sorry but I’ve got to come back in after seeing the post by Beeayeate on page seven,
Then followed by Grimweasel.

Remember, the whole point of the RAF, the whole point, is to put a bomb-aimer over an enemy target in times of conflict. Everybody else is just there to support this action, everybody.

In the 1980s, this was NOT the point at all. Never was.

With the height of the cold war looming on the horizon, and the massed Russian hordes poised on the East German border, the whole point of the RAF in the UK was to rapidly re-supply the NATO troops based in Europe.

Remember the TACEVALs and MINEVALS, yes you went through the motions of gate guard, roving patrols, air raids and NBC drills, but the main objective was to re-supply the forward troops with ammunition.
This entailed every able bodied mover building pallets of ammunition on the Calne Strip – and I mean all of them. Hour after hour, no meal breaks down at the mess, hot lox were brought for them, a quick scoff, and then back to another pallet.




Since ABIW has had a dig, while I’m on I might as well jump to the defence of PIG. Yes he has now left these sunny shores, but a man of higher integrity I have yet to meet.
I seem to recall a bravery award for tackling a man armed with a machine gun, whilst on the beat in Manchester.
And as for “selecting teddy in cot” and quitting, I think I would say without hesitation, that if PIG had a teddy, it would have been a Grizzly!


I’m off now to don respirator and await the forthcoming barrage.
Remember, the whole pont of the RAF, the whole point, is to put a bomb-aimer over an enemy target in times of conflict. Everybody else is just there to support this action, everybody.

Don't forget.

[Beeayeate]

Wasn't going to add to this thread, but ML wrote some very narrow perspective stuff.

ML

"Remember the TACEVALs and MINEVALS, yes you went through the motions of gate guard, roving patrols, air raids and NBC drills, . . ."

Yes, I do remember the "mini-wars"- not at Calne though, but in Germany, summer and winter, with one of the strike squadrons. If ". . .the main objective was to re-supply the forward troops with ammunition" just what do you think ours, and other's, Canberras were doing standing QRA loaded with nukes? Waiting to protect ammuntion shipments? I don't think so. What was the purpose of the RAF's V force? Air drops of .303 and field rations?

And then you go on to write. . .

"This entailed every able bodied mover building pallets of ammunition on the Calne Strip – and I mean all of them. Hour after hour, no meal breaks down at the mess, hot lox were brought for them, a quick scoff, and then back to another pallet."

Oh dear, so you had to leave your warm crewroom for a while? What do you think the "customer facing" pilots, navs, riggers, leccys, sootys, faireys, et al were actually doing at the business end then? Especially the Canberra aircrews who realised they probably wouldn't be coming back! Dedicated blokes one and all. And if they did get back, how would you feel if you had to wonder if you'd have anywhere to come back to!

Gawds, this is not banter.

Out.

[Muppet Leader]

Beeayeate,
Yes I’ll give you that one.

However, the guys you mention were standing QRA 24/7. This was nothing new.
The whole point of the exercises in the UK, shipping conventional ordinance, were to give the politicians time to try to resolve their political differences, to ensure that you didn’t have to microwave Europe.

Notwithstanding the obvious bravery of the Canberra crews (both air and ground), this applied just as much to the 130 crews.
The Hercs were to fly from the UK out to RAFG to deposit their loads of munitions, and if the airfields had been taken out, the engineers would blow bridges and so forth, and the aircraft would use the autobahns as forward emergency strips.
This would have taken place before the V force was given the “GO”.

I seem to remember, and I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong, some statistic that the scribblies had worked out, that the Hercs would survive an average of 1.4 missions, between the UK and Germany.

I deference to Beeayeate, this is after all a thread for movers and loadies to verbally beat the sierra hotel one tango out of each other.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

ML,

He may be big, brave and full of integrity but anyone reading his post will see his rather nasty and spiteful comments as nothing more than that. The suggestion that unless you were once an SAC you should not be in a position of responsibilty is, not only ludicrous, but made out of of pure jealousy

As someone who served in RAFG in the 80's, and despite being a techie my war role was to help guard 31 Sqn Jag's, I would like to take you to task on a couple of your suppositions

"Remember, the whole point of the RAF, the whole point, is to put a bomb-aimer over an enemy target in times of conflict. Everybody else is just there to support this action, everybody.

In the 1980s, this was NOT the point at all. Never was."

WHAT

Every Tac/Min/Maxeval I did during my time, 81 - 84 was for the purpose of generating as many servicable aircraft in as short a space of time in order to hang a bucket of sunshine on them for the one way trip east we were regularly live armed when the site went hot and the di staff were close in attendance as the quicker the upload the better the score and the less time spent "masked up"!!!

If you honestly believe a shed load of Albert delivered goods was going to stop the Soviet hordes driving west then.....................good grief

What kept the status quo was not the threat of a conventional confrontation as we would have be "rubber dick fu@ked oh yeah" by Ivan! It was the threat of a massive nuclear retaliation that kept them at bay.

So as Bee alluded whatever hardships you endured here on the Calne strip pale into insignificance for those who were going to man the jets for the outbound leg..........only and for those left behind in RAFG as the retalitory airbusts or a whole host of T72's etc were coming our way...........sobering thought at the time as I recall

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Didntdoit]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Why can't we just all get along? Speaking as a relatively recent ex-Movs qualified duvet consultant, I gotta take issue with some of you on the cold war, et all. The reason that we won the Cold War, was not, IMHO, solely because we could hang buckets of sunshine on pointy jets in short order and not solely because we shifted planeloads of kit faster than they were going out of fashion at Asda.

It was because, overall, we, and our bigger brother(s), were able to present a credible deterrent in the form of a strong defence policy and more than competent armed forces, at all levels, in all disciplines. At least, we were able to present that front - the reality may have been different although our bigger brother certainly spent the enemy into submission.

All this petty harping on about how hard/valuable/essential/important of biblical proportions certain roles and elements are misses the point and most probably only reinforces the uninformed opinion that non-union members from either trade have. Rant off - back to thread.

I have been fortunate enough to work with some diamond movers, without whom I could never have achieved tasks. I have also worked in cooperation with some great Loadies, and their crews, who helped me to help them. On the other hand, in both camps, I have encountered a small number who were a disgrace to the uniform, let alone their respective union. The same could be said about most trades and branches in the RAF. What am I trying to say that others have perhaps already said better?

Divide and Conquer

[Muppet Leader]

This is great.

Come on, let's have loads more "willies out on the table"
and more people joining the "mines bigger than yours" game.

[Echo 5]

Blakey 875

" The officers is a different story as none of them are proper Movers although they seem to know it all within weeks ".

This sounds very familiar. Looks like the current generation of Movers have to put up with the same sort of cr@p that we did all those years ago.

I wonder if it is those individuals that TAC Queen was referring to that " always blame the other shift "?

[Didntdoit]

Echo 5
Read this bit of my post again:

Speaking as a relatively recent ex-Movs qualified duvet consultant

Perhaps a little too subtle for you, but not all zobs think they know the Movs trade!

[PPRuNeUser0172]

My dicks bigger than your dick...................

what a pointless pissing contest.


"No Stick, No Vote"

[Didntdoit]

Snachez (sic)

Box get in back your. The title of the thread is self-explanatory, so you don't even have to look at it if the subject doth not please thou.

In the meantime....