Movers v Loadies (Merged)
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Trim Sheets
Scene:
...late '80s flying the C130 Klassic....OC Muppets had decreed that teams flying on Albert were to compile/complete all trim sheets whilst onboard said route......
F/L muppet gets handed trim pads (with appropriate compliments, of course) - promptly hands them to Sgt muppet, who hands them to Cpl muppet who in turn hands to SAC muppet..........45 mins later, with F/L, Sgt and Cpl doing what they do best, (sleeping,) SAC approaches LM and says: " can you show me what to do on these (trimsheets) as I haven't got a clue"......
......Man-management in practice, muppet style..............
...late '80s flying the C130 Klassic....OC Muppets had decreed that teams flying on Albert were to compile/complete all trim sheets whilst onboard said route......
F/L muppet gets handed trim pads (with appropriate compliments, of course) - promptly hands them to Sgt muppet, who hands them to Cpl muppet who in turn hands to SAC muppet..........45 mins later, with F/L, Sgt and Cpl doing what they do best, (sleeping,) SAC approaches LM and says: " can you show me what to do on these (trimsheets) as I haven't got a clue"......
......Man-management in practice, muppet style..............
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ABIW,
Well my old mate sounds like you've had a pretty good day and can't be arrsed playing. Fair do's, but the obvious isn't obvious because I'm only a thick Muppet so please enlighten all us "thickos" about "value and importance".
TT,
Welcome to the fray. Hope you will be a regular contributor.
" Please excuse this question from an ignorant ex-military type, but can somebody please explain to me if the role of a redcap is different to that of a dispatcher?
My (basic) understanding is that a redcap delivers/supervises the paperwork at the point of delivery to the departing aircraft (ie to the flightdeck,) whereas the dispatchers role....... etc"
Now! I think that even a Loadie would know the answer to that question so I assume that you're neither a Loadie or a Mover.
Am I right or am I wrong ? Whatever,we tolerate and even enjoy the input from even Air Dispatch on here so why not everyone else.
Enjoy.
E5.
PS: If you didn't get the job let me know and I'll put you in touch with an ex Muppet who will find you something "suitable".
Well my old mate sounds like you've had a pretty good day and can't be arrsed playing. Fair do's, but the obvious isn't obvious because I'm only a thick Muppet so please enlighten all us "thickos" about "value and importance".
TT,
Welcome to the fray. Hope you will be a regular contributor.
" Please excuse this question from an ignorant ex-military type, but can somebody please explain to me if the role of a redcap is different to that of a dispatcher?
My (basic) understanding is that a redcap delivers/supervises the paperwork at the point of delivery to the departing aircraft (ie to the flightdeck,) whereas the dispatchers role....... etc"
Now! I think that even a Loadie would know the answer to that question so I assume that you're neither a Loadie or a Mover.
Am I right or am I wrong ? Whatever,we tolerate and even enjoy the input from even Air Dispatch on here so why not everyone else.
Enjoy.
E5.
PS: If you didn't get the job let me know and I'll put you in touch with an ex Muppet who will find you something "suitable".
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ENumber,
It's like this fella,
We don't teach Loadies how to fly as we have lots of very capable and proffesional pilots who fly us safely from "a to b" on a regular basis.
We don't teach loadies how to fix aircraft as we have lots of capable and proffesional engineers who fix and mainain our aircraft to an extermely high standard
Apart from the workings of the microwave/oven we don't teach loadies how to cook as we have an extremely good in flight catering facility who produce food for us in plenty and very promptly
However we do teach loadies, using the 335, 11a, 11d etc etc all about weight and balance, loading and restraint, DAC, Pax regs and the like...................now tell me why would we do that
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
It's like this fella,
We don't teach Loadies how to fly as we have lots of very capable and proffesional pilots who fly us safely from "a to b" on a regular basis.
We don't teach loadies how to fix aircraft as we have lots of capable and proffesional engineers who fix and mainain our aircraft to an extermely high standard
Apart from the workings of the microwave/oven we don't teach loadies how to cook as we have an extremely good in flight catering facility who produce food for us in plenty and very promptly
However we do teach loadies, using the 335, 11a, 11d etc etc all about weight and balance, loading and restraint, DAC, Pax regs and the like...................now tell me why would we do that
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Last edited by Always_broken_in_wilts; 25th Apr 2004 at 23:26.
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ABIW,
Good post,well thought out.
So,basically,you have the same theoretical knowledge as (most) muppets but you don't have to do the humping and dumping. I think I've got it now.
E5.
Good post,well thought out.
So,basically,you have the same theoretical knowledge as (most) muppets but you don't have to do the humping and dumping. I think I've got it now.
E5.
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To add to ABIWs list;
Equipment scaling for flights, International health regs (both crew/pax/& aircraft), safety & survival equipment, reaction to malfunctions, combat survival, tech & gen, refuelling...and I could go on....
Oh..and how to spot & deal with muppets mistakes in 1.5 hrs in addition to all the other stuff we do on a pre-flight.
Regards to Most...SFS
Equipment scaling for flights, International health regs (both crew/pax/& aircraft), safety & survival equipment, reaction to malfunctions, combat survival, tech & gen, refuelling...and I could go on....
Oh..and how to spot & deal with muppets mistakes in 1.5 hrs in addition to all the other stuff we do on a pre-flight.
Regards to Most...SFS
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ABIW/'J'OKE
Seems you learn just about enough in those books to make life awkward and will always interpret to have a negative attitude. Why don't you guys learn to have some flexibility? Can't argue with you about trim sheet incident but I keep saying that there are no officer movers, only supply oficers pretending to be....
Seems you learn just about enough in those books to make life awkward and will always interpret to have a negative attitude. Why don't you guys learn to have some flexibility? Can't argue with you about trim sheet incident but I keep saying that there are no officer movers, only supply oficers pretending to be....
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Blakey,
You seem to be missing the point here fella........you should be asking why Loadie's NEED to learn about everything movers do
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
You seem to be missing the point here fella........you should be asking why Loadie's NEED to learn about everything movers do
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Never one to poke the stick at a Load Mattress, but there's always a first time........
As the mighty Loady is so on top of his game, how come the Loady Course that went through the Movs School (great idea tho) when I did ALL failed the Load Check in the Training Hangar? Just asking. Even us zobs got 70% of our course to pass it 1st attempt and you KNOW how thick we are! Just asking.
As the mighty Loady is so on top of his game, how come the Loady Course that went through the Movs School (great idea tho) when I did ALL failed the Load Check in the Training Hangar? Just asking. Even us zobs got 70% of our course to pass it 1st attempt and you KNOW how thick we are! Just asking.
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None of you seem to be getting the subliminal message that I am too polite to enclose in here...................J Bloke is a little more to the point than I so refer to his post and all will become clear
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Guys,
I think what we've got here is our old chum ABIW fishing for compliments and reassurance of his value and importance but it just aint going to happen is it.
Now if all RAF Loadies were a bit like THIS GUY then we would all get on famously
"Huron Topp
posted 24th August 2003 23:31
As 875 stated, us Canucks have gotten along quite well with corporal aircrew. Stripes come with talent, not with the job. By the way, us backward colonials have the problem solved, ALL loadies are movers."
Does anyone see any self inflated ego there cos I certainly don't.
Regards to everyone cos this is a friendly thread.
E5.
I think what we've got here is our old chum ABIW fishing for compliments and reassurance of his value and importance but it just aint going to happen is it.
Now if all RAF Loadies were a bit like THIS GUY then we would all get on famously
"Huron Topp
posted 24th August 2003 23:31
As 875 stated, us Canucks have gotten along quite well with corporal aircrew. Stripes come with talent, not with the job. By the way, us backward colonials have the problem solved, ALL loadies are movers."
Does anyone see any self inflated ego there cos I certainly don't.
Regards to everyone cos this is a friendly thread.
E5.
Last edited by Echo 5; 27th Apr 2004 at 19:03.
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Ok here's another clue
Civilian airlines have no need to carry Loadmasters, some of my brethren would disaggree with this policy but policy is what it is, because they have an extermely efficiant CAA approved system that ensures all freight carried is accepatable.
This means that it is all packed iaw curent rules and regs by proffesional and fully qualified peeps. It is then correctly loaded iaw with current procedures such that it completely conforms to those prescribed rules and regs.
The correct restraint equipment is used at all times and a thouroughly proffesional job is regularly carried out.
It is then checked by competant and highly trained staff to enable it to be safely transported around the globe.
So why does the RAF feel there is a real and ongoing need to emply Loadmaster's?
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Civilian airlines have no need to carry Loadmasters, some of my brethren would disaggree with this policy but policy is what it is, because they have an extermely efficiant CAA approved system that ensures all freight carried is accepatable.
This means that it is all packed iaw curent rules and regs by proffesional and fully qualified peeps. It is then correctly loaded iaw with current procedures such that it completely conforms to those prescribed rules and regs.
The correct restraint equipment is used at all times and a thouroughly proffesional job is regularly carried out.
It is then checked by competant and highly trained staff to enable it to be safely transported around the globe.
So why does the RAF feel there is a real and ongoing need to emply Loadmaster's?
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Just to stir things a bit - as an ex-Truckie who became a long haul cargo pilot for some years before moving on to the easy stuff:
I never had a problem with either an ALM or an AQM (apart from getting them to stand a round) but Movers have tried to kill me on a number of occasions.
When based at Akrotiri it got to the point when I refused to speak to them other than through the Co-Pilot.
Then, damn me, a few years later I took an MD83 into Akronelli on a military charter. On return, climbing out west full of squaddies and their kit, the FMS started flashing "use Max Continuous Thrust" passing FL280.
At Stansted I had the kit weighed and it was more than 3 tonnes over the Movers' figure.
Civil cargo aircraft do (or did) have Loadmasters; in my freighting days they were also Flight Maintenance Engineers and were Treasures Beyond Price!
"Trimsheet OK at top of climb captain? I'll get the kettle on...." (Northbound out of Lagos - empty of course).
I never had a problem with either an ALM or an AQM (apart from getting them to stand a round) but Movers have tried to kill me on a number of occasions.
When based at Akrotiri it got to the point when I refused to speak to them other than through the Co-Pilot.
Then, damn me, a few years later I took an MD83 into Akronelli on a military charter. On return, climbing out west full of squaddies and their kit, the FMS started flashing "use Max Continuous Thrust" passing FL280.
At Stansted I had the kit weighed and it was more than 3 tonnes over the Movers' figure.
Civil cargo aircraft do (or did) have Loadmasters; in my freighting days they were also Flight Maintenance Engineers and were Treasures Beyond Price!
"Trimsheet OK at top of climb captain? I'll get the kettle on...." (Northbound out of Lagos - empty of course).
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hirsute,
"At Stansted I had the kit weighed and it was more than 3 tonnes over the Movers' figure"
Sounds as if someone got their Lbs and Kgs mixed up, just like my missus. Costs me a fortune !!
Rgds
E5.
"At Stansted I had the kit weighed and it was more than 3 tonnes over the Movers' figure"
Sounds as if someone got their Lbs and Kgs mixed up, just like my missus. Costs me a fortune !!
Rgds
E5.
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Movers v Loadies
Movers!
Transiting to the Falklands courtesy of the Royal Air Force first leg of the flight was VC10 from Brize, refuelling stop at Dakar and then overnight at Ascension before an early take off for the 13 hour flight on a C130K to RAF Stanley. Among the self loading freight were four Policemen, one Sergeant and three Constables. During the very early morning breakfast question to Police Sergeant “How come you were accommodated in the Sergeant’s Mess and your Constables were in the Officer’s Mess?” Police Sergeant “No idea”. RAF Mover “They are down on the manifest as Police Officers.”
Transiting to the Falklands courtesy of the Royal Air Force first leg of the flight was VC10 from Brize, refuelling stop at Dakar and then overnight at Ascension before an early take off for the 13 hour flight on a C130K to RAF Stanley. Among the self loading freight were four Policemen, one Sergeant and three Constables. During the very early morning breakfast question to Police Sergeant “How come you were accommodated in the Sergeant’s Mess and your Constables were in the Officer’s Mess?” Police Sergeant “No idea”. RAF Mover “They are down on the manifest as Police Officers.”
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Hirsute,
Nothing much changes as "Kokinelli" have just performed the same trick with a STANEVAL crew, only 600 kgs out so so pretty close..NOT.............which is still under invest
Nothing to do with lb/kg faff just a continuing case of "feckwittedness"
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Nothing much changes as "Kokinelli" have just performed the same trick with a STANEVAL crew, only 600 kgs out so so pretty close..NOT.............which is still under invest
Nothing to do with lb/kg faff just a continuing case of "feckwittedness"
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Last edited by Always_broken_in_wilts; 28th Apr 2004 at 23:49.
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And here's another one.
Homeward bound out of Vancouver with Albert bulging at the seams. After some time airborne a major rant starts on the flight deck. Apparantly the desired altitude has not been achieved in the desired time. WTF is going on the captain wants to know from anyone that can come up with an answer.
What has happened is the trim sheet has been handed to the MAMS team leader by the Loadie with the part 1 duly completed but the Loadie has omitted to include the 1500 pound pack up.
Not only that but he hasn't advised the team leader to take it into account.
Now ABIW before you tell me that the zob should have asked, you will recall no doubt what Blakey thinks of Movements Officers.
Just goes to show that none of us are infallible.
hirsute,
Just out of interest - was there a resulting Court of Inquiry after your escapade ?
Regards to all.
E5.
Homeward bound out of Vancouver with Albert bulging at the seams. After some time airborne a major rant starts on the flight deck. Apparantly the desired altitude has not been achieved in the desired time. WTF is going on the captain wants to know from anyone that can come up with an answer.
What has happened is the trim sheet has been handed to the MAMS team leader by the Loadie with the part 1 duly completed but the Loadie has omitted to include the 1500 pound pack up.
Not only that but he hasn't advised the team leader to take it into account.
Now ABIW before you tell me that the zob should have asked, you will recall no doubt what Blakey thinks of Movements Officers.
Just goes to show that none of us are infallible.
hirsute,
Just out of interest - was there a resulting Court of Inquiry after your escapade ?
Regards to all.
E5.
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Making the assumption that the aircraft got all the way to Canada without incident and all the previous trim sheets had been completed by the ALM what can we further assume?
That this is the classic "I learnt about flying from that" type of story. And the lesson that Loadie would have learnt would have been give a feckwit something to do and he/she will **** it up ergo Muppets hump and dump and tie stuff in and should leave all the difficult things to those who can cope........ as it's much safer that way
I even make their tea and coffee as I got fed up years ago cleaning up after them
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
That this is the classic "I learnt about flying from that" type of story. And the lesson that Loadie would have learnt would have been give a feckwit something to do and he/she will **** it up
ergo Muppets hump and dump and tie stuff in and should leave all the difficult things to those who can cope........ as it's much safer that way I even make their tea and coffee as I got fed up years ago cleaning up after them
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Last edited by Always_broken_in_wilts; 29th Apr 2004 at 14:06.