You would be very foolish to accept the A330 if you were already 777 rated.

At least one if not three new A330 REGIONALS will be delivered to Jeddah today.

[QUOTE=mutt;9477392]You would be very foolish to accept the A330 if you were already 777 rated.

Not saying I would accept it at all . The question was what if you arrrive and they put you on another type ?
Is it stipulated pre employment what type you are on ? Can they summarliy change this to fit their requirements ?
Current B777 type is my application . Tks

[quote=fourgolds;9477727]Normally they will not. I don't know anyone who had this kind of luck. In fact I know a couple of guys who came here for the 330 and they were asked if they want to join the 777

Not sure if anyone has told him that its impossible to train 700 line pilots a year :)

At least it is a clear message....

Hi

I have a question about Engineers/Mechanics at Saudia!
Just wondering if they still hire overseas/expat mechanics in the KSA?

Thanks

Mutt- The problem is, it doesn't depend on airline needs when it comes to the final termination of expat Pilots. The decision will be made by the government and Royal decree will require Saudiization of the Airline industry at a certain date. It happened in the mobile phone industry last year. 6 months notice was given.

Maybe Saudia should promote jobs fairs now in Jeddah amongst other middle eastern and Chinese airlines.

EK would love it ;)

Polax52,

There is a tad bit of a difference between a job that requires a few weeks of schooling and an aircraft Captain. With the current experience rules it takes 10-12 years for a new hire to become a Capt at SVA.

Do you really think that with expansion and shortages as high as they are, the Royal Court will disable the entire country by terminating all the Expat pilots?

What will be next? Saudization by decree of the medical field?

Neither will happen in the next 10 years.

Just for reference purposes.... 50% of the A320 Capts are Expats.

Metro301, they actually called for full Saudiization of the FO's in the late 90's in response to a complaint from CPL holders, they succeeded in reducing the number down to 10, 9 of these were on the 747 Classic.

Right now I believe that the only fleets with expat FO's are the 330 and 777, so how long will it realistically take to replace them?

Captains are a different story, with about 50 upgrades a year, they are barely covering retirements let alone fleet expansion.

I am not saying either way what will or won't happen but Saudiization is now a very big part of the psychology and they desperately want to make it happen.

Metro301- 10 years sounds like the realistic timescale to me, with no new hires from 2020.

Mutt,
Any chance of a link to the above news item by any chance.
Would be nice to actually see what was said by the DG of Saudia.
Thanks

Hello! I know it's a little off-topic since most of you guys here are pilots. But just in case, anyone knows where to apply for Saudia Airlines Cabin Crew here in Dubai? Or do they just process applications in Jeddah? I would appreciate your reply, please. Thank you!

I just googled it "arab news saudi pilots"

it's the first thing that came up.

Saudia to hire 100% Saudi pilots by 2020 | Arab News....

It's called the Magic Kingdom for a reason...

Polax,

I admit in 10 years it is possible to replace us all, barring further expansion and with good luck on their part. Hiring of expat FO's in large numbers is only a recent phenomenon. There has been a handful here and there over the past decade, with a dramatic increase over the last year or so. This recent FO hiring was met with a lot of resistance from local pilots.

100% local FO hiring in large numbers, no further AC expansion orders, 10-12 years is realistic.

Mutt,

They would definitely need to streamline the training process. Please correct me if I am wrong, but after the Saudization call in the 90's, there was zero hiring until 2004 for both Capt and Fo?

Bottomline... If I was an expat pilot at SVA..... I would be focusing on a 10 year timeline. Anything sooner is unlikely. I hear many expats talking as though this is going to happen tomorrow. My only point is that it will take time. I am actually rooting for the Saudis. I hope it works for them.

10 years is an assumption. The government can call time on expat pilots at any point. We presume that they will not until it's healthy for their Airline to do so.

All of this expat recruitment over the last 3 or 4 years has upset a lot of people, now there is a lot of politics involved.

I feel bad for the senior narrowbody Fo's that I fly with. People with the same experience or even less are being hired direct into the widebody right seat holding these fellows back. Some have 6-7 years seniority. I have no sympathy for the 1-2 year guys crying about it, but the more senior ones, are a real decent lot with good skills.

Metro the WB was the cheese to attract expat FO's. I can't imagine anyone would join as an FO in the 320 no matter how much the salary would be and with zero upgrade possibilities On top of that some people in the management are quite happy with the expat solution. We don't complain,we don't call it sick or fatigue on Friday morning,we don't want vacation every year in August or during Hadj and we cost less than the locals. And these are not my words ,but the words of an ex top management guy who recently came back in line.
Not to mention that the training the local FO's are going through is a joke compared to the training of the expats .
My 2 cents

Well with their current training program and pace, They cannot make it in ten years also. 20 777 captains retiring this month. The whole fleet transfer concept of upgrade training is going to take plenty of time. Plus the Gaca is really having a hold on the airline and not the other way around. It's just a press statement. At the most they can eliminate all the FOs but not captains for sure. A 777 FO will have to spend considerable time in training in 320 left seat then again 777 left seat to be a 777 captain. It'snt like EK or QR. Eventually they will achieve it but it's going to take a very long time. But for now they done seem to be prepared for the expansion. It's a chaos.


@Skull: Locals do it. They have homes in IST,DXB,BAH etc. As an expat it'll be difficult to obtain resident permit. Even if you do it'll be harder to commute. But It can be done.

I arrived in JED in June 1978; the first day, our first meeting, we were told that by June 1980 the whole expat group (pilots, f/o's, flight engineers (remember?), would all be gone, due to Saudiization. I left 27 yrs later; don't hold yer breath! Sam

The reality is that we don't know when the final decision to Saudiize the Airline industry will occur. We do know that the determination is there.

I agree with the wishful thinking posts but in the end it will be all about domestic politics.

25 more aircrafts coming by this year end ! From a senior management Pilot.

I'm just curious about the whole scenario.

Can anyone provide me with current Capt salay in SV for a friend whose interested . And if they still using seniority system for rostering bidding .
Thx

About 9000 USD basic

604260 Rupees......

T & C's
 

Airline director has told all managers to stop all overtime. The only salary will be Basic salary only, plus the per diems.


Medical insurance has been cancelled. only local insurance at local hospitals. the locals don't even trust the doctors there.


Saudi Airlines to be 100% Saudi pilots by 2020. all expats will be gone by then. Saudia to hire 100% Saudi pilots by 2020 | Arab News


12 hour flights these people cause lung and respiratory problems from their constant smoking.


all told, there is no reason to waster time here.

That's it? Nothing more then basic?:)

wide body or narrow body?

why should we reveal all the secrets Romasik? ;)
Narrow body.

Heard 20 captains retired in AUG. They are running short of 777 captains. Almost the whole year....!

If you are talking about Saudi's retiring, then it will only happen in Hegira month 1 and 7, so seeing a large number in either of these months is expected.

How many of them returned as contractors on a higher salary?

No Idea....Guessing those are the ones who touched 65 gregorian. but its a big mess !

I think a lot of Expat Captains are beginning to complete their 3 year contracts. Those that wish to do 1 contract will leave. 3 years ago Saudia were probably hiring 10 successful expats per month, at a total guess maybe 50% of those will leave on contract completion.

Are any of the A320 on order the NEO?

What is the reason for Saudiization of this airline?

Is anyone able to provide a coherent answer to this question? From a Saudi or a non-Saudi, a logical answer would be good to see.

From an SV manager, I would dearly love to hear a truthful response. So reply....

Quick question. This block of 5 days that keeps getting mentioned. I take it you actually have more off a month in total? 1-2 days off between trips? I don't know the GACA regs but take it it's not 25 days of work with pure min rest between and one set of 5 days off?

RoyHudd: I am not sure that I can give you the truthful answer which you want. If you google Saudiization then you will probably find a lot of information. I understand that Saudiization is a legal process initiated in around 2005 to slowly replace the approximately 7,000,000 expatriate workers with Saudi workers. There have been some industries where the government have intervened to insure that this process has happened quickly for example the mobile phone industry last year, where the government gave companies six months to replace all expat workers.

The management of Saudia have clearly stated that their intention is to remove all foreign Pilots and replace them with Saudi Pilots by 2020. I do understand from within the head office that a target of 6-8 years is actually what they believe.

Cliff Secord: Your presumption is of course correct. You get one block of 5 and then ones and twos. I think the minimum is nine.

50% of the saudi population is under the age of 25, the concept of saudiization is to provide jobs for them.