All 777-200's to be phased out with immediate effect. I presume that this means they will not be scheduled to operate for the summer season 2017 i.e. after March.

I think that will leave 777 lines for Captains at 50-60 hours per month. That'll be the largest pay cut. Forget tax, the 3% and the EOC bonus.

Polax52, In case you are wondering the phase out of the B77-200 has been planned and accounted for by "those in the know" for at least the last three months. It is no surprise at all. There'll be no surplus crew problems, or if there is it will be only temporary, as the plan is to CCQ the surplus portion of B777 crew to the B787's due soon to arrive, or transition them to the B787 as a single fleet.

Obviously, the first option is the most cost efficient for the company and that is what is being advised and has been so for at least the last three months. There is also a big shortage of crew on the A330, which looks like it is going to be a big money fleet going forward for the next few years due increases in destinations, frequencies and hours. It may also be an alternative for any surplus B777 crew that do not fancy the B787 or too much B777 long haul.

VAMY

One of them is Greek, well sort of....:\

Yes he is, sort of, but he knows his speciality very well indeed!

Dropping all the 200's is a pretty big move. Will the 330 be picking up all the medium haul?

Gaca did not seem overly thrilled with CCQ in the past (320-330), has that changed? Last year the airline was talking CCQ starting with instructors then seniors. I don't think it has happened yet.

There are changes being imposed on Flight Operations from above, with planned expansion and shortage of crew CCQ on the Boeing & the Airbus fleets is the obvious way to go. Many of their Middle East competitors utilize CCQ and Saudia higher management are asking " why should Saudia be any different? In the past it was Saudia Flight Operations that were reluctant, mainly because of vested reasons within the Flight Operations Management community.

The plans for the A330R is mainly to operate regional and some higher capacity domestic routes. The regional routes are basically anywhere within about 3 hours flight time-North Africa, Near & Middle East, The Persian Gulf, India, Pakistan, some East Africa, etc. The longer range A330's might pick up a few routes into Europe but that is not really the plan. The A330 is the most likely fleet to have a decent and proper commuting roster, for those that want it.

The above is my best guess.

Payslip still reflects hegira month, I guess we have lost only the 3% pay rise.

Heard the news? I believe a new Saudia CEO is soon to be appointed. He arrives next month & guess what? He's another expat! A German, I believe, or maybe an Austrian?

So it's just going to get worse I believe.

Based on the latest bulletin, Mr Richard Nuttal has moved from Vice President Commercial Transformation to Vice President Sales, no other expats mentioned at this time, but they did move about 20 people into various positions.

More and more failures and resignations in the last few weeks. An expat capt resigned just before his "star" flight. He said "I just cant take it anymore". Another expat line FO was made to fly first and put down during his PPC. Lots of failures in training for stupid reasons.


Several expats (FOs as well as capts) are waiting to complete the training, Whereas locals from Embraers complete 777 training under 4 months. Not to mention other arabic speaking expats get their way through by getting good instructors and check airmen. And in line, reserve line, stupid flights all night short sector , no overtime, constant calls from rostering and much more.
Clearly they are sending out a loud message that " we don't want expats any more on 777 "

Overall morale has hit the all time low.:ugh:

Flyboy...... It's true that local Captains who are in transition from one fleet to another get a priority over initial Captains. This isn't in anyway hidden or unreasonable. Local first officers upgrading to Captain often take 1 year to complete that course. Expat initial Captains only take 7 months. The priority in Transition is also given to Expat Captains. Most legacy carriers around the world use seniority to decide Priority and I would have thought that this was fair.

There are many things to complain about but this is not one of them. The current training regime and failure rate is an issue.

I meant Local Embraer FOs transitioning to B777. Yeah that's a bigger one.

Good for them, I am glad they are having the chance to transition. Hiring Expat FO's to the wide body was always controversial with the locals. Many never saw the need.

Now even the management never sees the need !

This is kind of funny, I wonder how many recent hires will return home.

Now in a desperate move they are offering 787 courses to expat trainee captains.
:ugh:

To whom?.....

New hire direct entry captains

New hire 777 DEC who are in line training exactly.

Complete and sheer Corruption !!
 

In my career spanning almost four decades I have never ever seen an airline with worse maintenance ethics and pilot training programmes.
Airplanes are MEL'd so that VP maintenance can boast about the 'immense workload' the poorly mentained airplanes are creating for the maintenance department !
Similarly pilots training that should take ideally 3-4 months is taking 8-9 months. And then the VP training says, hey look how many pilots we have in the waiting list. So see how much work we do.
Same with housing, finance, transportation, operations, ticketing and planning.

It's like a builder having being tasked with making some buildings. And then he makes them all just 80% complete. Just so that he can impress upon the powers that be, that so many structures are incomplete so therefore I am working very very hard. Instead of completing the buildings and letting your results show your achievements.

This place is super sick. And only getting worse.
At least 35-40 pilots having finished their complete training and awaiting either their final release check or their gaca check or their final oral. Why? Apparently for lack of IP or GACA inspector or simply poor planning !
This, whilst airplanes sit on ground due lack of pilots.
Simply amazing...!!!!:eek:
Somebody ought to write in to the DG / CEO about these diliberate 'oversights'.
And while an expat pilot takes 9 months for training, his local counterpart completes it in 4 ....!!!

:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:

It's a part of the job description. All of what you mentioned. I'm sure you have a choice to fly where your home is. Most probably for peanuts. Yet you are here.
Airplanes are not sitting on ground due to lack of pilots. In fact there is almost no overtime on all fleets.
Take it easy. From paycheck to paycheck. And follow the MEL procedures :cool:

Very unlikely especially to those already online.The terms and conditions are nowhere near what is offered in SV.

So you're essentially saying that this caliber of maintenance, administration, training, operations etc etc was discussed and acknowledged during the initial assessment.
Surely you jest.
🤔

Hi , Im a captain on the B777 fleet and visit JED once in a while. It would be great if we could meet whenever you are in JED to know more about Saudia. Also can you recommend some nice restaurants ? :)

It would be rather naive to expect this kind of information from initial assessment. There are more reliable sources out there. The best one was to simply search what KSA is. It's widely available in the Internet.
Another good example is Emirates. If you only go through recruitment process you will love it. Then real life comes. Despite countless warnings on this forum. It's still not that bad (IMHO), bur surely different from advertising.
And, BTW, not providing the true picture at initial assessment is also a part of the job description:)

P.S.: 17 years ago I also thought this place was very much like UAE ...

Hi. I'm an F/O on the 787 and would like to know how much I will be taking home every month as an F/O on the wide body. What kind of accommodation can I expect (I'm married with 2 kids) and is it true that an upgrade will take me 10 years? How many hours can I expect to fly a month, and how many off days will I get in JED? Please reply or hit my inbox. Thanks.

Romasik, Bingo.... It baffles me when people fail to actually do any research, then spend a large portion of their time complaining when the reality sets in. Over the years, there has been no shortage of people on this site explaining what to actually expect on arrival. KSA is not an easy place to live or work, but if you can adapt and except the reality it makes for a lucrative placement. With proper planning and some luck many people are on track to retire 10+ years earlier than in their home countries.

New Saudia CEO

Jaan Albrecht appointed CEO of Saudi Arabian Airlines Group | People content from ATWOnline

About time ... :rolleyes:

Let's see how long he will last. He is most probably heading to a wall...:ugh:

Romasik: Yes, that was what I was thinking. He didn't last long at Sun Express. He is capable of turning around an Airline that wants to be turned around but that's unlikely at Saudia. I would say that by far the most major issue at Saudia is maintenance. The maintenance department will not be changed, those guys are mostly "jobs for life" and they don't want to work. The only way to change it is to set up a separate maintenance company run by Expats and have them do all of the actual maintenance. The "jobs for life" boys can take charge of issuing the MEL's.

Anyone For China?
 

Have a look at the link below for the latest CNN news concerning the pilot shortage in China!

It's titled "Want to Earn $300,000 Tax Free". It makes interesting reading!

Want to earn $300,000 tax free? Try flying a plane in China - Nov. 15, 2016

Perhaps all us Saudia expats should get together and form a "pilot contracting company", approach the Chinese carriers with an offer of our services and see which of them comes up with the best offer??

What do you think guys?

Stay away guys !
 

9 months to train expats ?! I heard someone is in 777 ground school/sim for almost a year.

It's amusing to read the questions of wannabes. Saudia was good a year back.

First officers please stay wherever your guys, they don't want us here any more. Things have changed drastically and conditions have eroded badly in the past one year. No command at all, lesser money, super long training and much more. Saudia is good only for Arab speaking expats at the most. Especially those who maintain seniority in their previous airline.

Didn't we tell you a year ago that there wasn't going to be a quick command for new FO's?

The most senior expat FO's are hitting 11 years and still waiting with promises!

Are they still hiring expat FO's for any equipment?

Hello folks,
As far as I'm concerned, I joined the Airline one year ago. Yes I agree, training is long and painful, yes I agree the rate of failures is high and the process is painful to be released to line. But what I've been told was true eventually, I mean if you survive the training. Flying in the Kingdom is Something smooth and rewarding. Most of time my professionnal life is really enjoyable. Unfortunately, beside my job my family life is poor because I'm still housed in a hotel in Jeddah. Therefore unable to have family joining me for now. I was aware of the fact I was signing a non commuting contract,..., so complain about that.
The only issue I could complain about is future and money. As you know JED is not the funniest place on earth to leave in, especially for a non muslim pilot, used to fly in Europe previously. And I must admit I was teased, more than one year ago, by the recruitment team during the interview abolut Saudi Airlines benefit package. The salary, based on overtime, was depicted as the best in the Middle East, and sure it used to be. But today, everybody is overstressed and scared about the near future to come. For the first time in the airline history, a major economical crisis is about to come, threatening the airline structure. Apparently, the management is targetting to stop overtime for everybody. As a consequence we should be paid basic salary from now on... As a consequence unfortunately, many of us can no longer stay if Financial conditions do not meet anymore our initial expectations, as promised intially...
Finally here this is my only concern for now.
Regards an safe flights

I have to be honest, I do not understand why any First Officer, particularly a young First Officer i.e. Under 40 would want to stay at Saudia. Qatar Airways has an order book of 208 new aircraft arriving over the next couple of years. "208" New aircraft, after nearly 70 years of operation Saudia had a total of 120 aircraft.

I understand that Qatar are offering fast command now for suitably qualified First Officers. In any case you would join a fair seniority list in a company that will double in size in the fairly immediate future.

Even Etihad have orders for 116 Aicraft which doubles their fleet over the next few years.

Dear Mutt, I joined for T&C and pay. Not for command. I knew it and never expected it.

There's no "fast track command" at QR. You join the queue of many others who joined earlier and have the company mins already, Yes they need a lot of crew, so does EY as you say and EK (& Ethiopian, Jet, Ryanair NAS etc etc).
EK have had many aircraft rotated through being parked-up, for over a year now, due short flight crew and flighties! 500 crew short on 777 fleet alone without accounting for needing new recruits. They're even employing turbo prop guys now, they have dropped their minimums so low in desperation. EY quickly following behind with shortages. Now SV are getting 3 new aircraft / month from Dec'16 (yeh I know all about the dribble about retiring 772's etc but it's not a 1 for 1 swap, they need many of them still flying longer, if they are to reach their 2020 goals!)
Now do the crewing figures. We may be surplus on one or two fleets right now but SV are going to be short crewed next year and from then on... UNLESS they get better utilisation of local crew and changed work ethics (& we know what the chances of that are). That also entails a more efficient less corrupt crewing / rostering department (fat chance of that!) such as the Jepp bidding system promised over a year ago now. Also, many of the 400 ex MAS crew either aren't turning up or are resigning to return home to B737/A330/A340 gigs with MAS/Batik/Malindo etc and that will compound the problem further.
With the flood of Memos out before the new CEO arrives in Jan'16 there's a lot of change to "tidy up the place". Let's see what the New Year brings.

"Just keep Swimming, Just keep Swimming ..." :-)

Quite an interesting insight chocks, let's wait for Jan 17. Not to mention the parallel movements from 777 to 787/330.

SVA320 why don't you move into motel and get your family. It's not at all bad and much better than many hotels.