cyrilroy21 very true that is the objective of the MPL to get low time pilot faster as a line FO; for a normal CPL it takes a lot of line training to release them as an FO.

With regards to paying for training this is a commercial issue and will be different from each airline. Mind you even BA and LH MPL cadets pay for their training.

Airlines now treat pilot training just like and MBA or engineering degree that the student must pay himself before he can be eligible for a job. Thats the hard fact.

MPL / ATPL Conversion
 

Hi guys, while flying back to Sharjah, one of the X-Clark MPL holder (an ABY FO) was with me as a Passenger & we discussed this matter, here is what I know as a fact:

Fact 1: Surprisingly, all of the MPL holders (X-Clark) who joined ABY 20 months ago, are converting their licenses to ATPL, so we might here the news in the coming few weeks.

Fact 2: For the guys who converted their foreign MPL license to a GCAA one (as in X-Clark case), in order to upgrade it to ATPL, they need to go through an ATPL Course & Examination(s) again. While if the MPL was originally issued from UAE GCAA (AAG Sharjah), there's no need to go through the ATPL ground school or exams again...the rest stays the same from my 3rd last post :ok:

http://www.pprune.org/7305852-post531.html

See that link. That is one proof that MPL can be sponsored. If airlines do that then they will only take the number of students that they need.

I am sure that in the future at some point Air Arabia will be saturated with MPL students.

You cannot compare them! MBA and engineering degrees are MUCH cheaper! MBA in the US at the BEST unis only cost $40k and that includes the living costs.

IN AAG the course costs about $120k not including the extra money we need to spend when we sign on with Air Arabia. It also does not include any living costs!

So yeh AAG is more expensive than those programmes!

Hell it is as expensive as becoming a doctor and that course takes 6 years :S

These pilots will create history in aviation to be the worlds first MPL to full ATPL on A320:D

with 44 a/c confirmed orders even if ABY decides for some strange reason to dump highly qualified future captains for their airline.. these MPLs will be welcomed with open arms back home in Philippines where there is a desperate shortage of sr FO with an ATPL on A320

More news
 

Just to share this piece of Info...Just 10 Days ago we received the 11th NEW A320...the A6-ANK (Which was a Pleasure to fly) out of the 44 ordered...i.e. 33 to go...

Another Fact: Starting from next year, we are going to receive 2 A320s every Month...not any A320...it is the A320-neo ;) & thus covering further Cities

No new ideas in Air Arabia? This was done long time ago by somebody else. Thomson were doing it in 2009!!

Looking at the above comments, and my experience in the middle east dealing with certaine emirates and their proposed business ventures especially in aviation, and communicating on a regular bases with the GCAA.
Alpha aviation as Tara's B is pointing out is pretty much correct, the only reason these guys are still around is that certain people have certain contacts that allow them to operate in this manner, in the emirates.
As for air Arabia as the leading short haul airline, well forgive me that an airline is bank rolled large sums of money to not fail, for the present moment, and massive fuel discounts........ Well just another airline in the middle east.
As for Malrim, good for you and your determination, and now you are sitting in the right seat, hopefully you can gain time and experience to convert to a Atpl, we only comment on such matters is that we have seen it so many times before over the years. Now it is MPL , to bring in cadets to pay from their own pocket, years ago many different airlines thought of different strategies to bring in cadets at a cheap cost, all I hope for you now is that you reach to convert to an Atpl , before this airline pushes the button.


Fluffy

@fluffy

Why so bitter?

Air Arabia has proven time and time again that the low cost model has translated into success which has led to the expansion of its fleet. The customer never had a low cost option in the region and ABY has been a pioneer in driving this growth to pass on its cost savings to the customer.

I feel they haven't fallen short in the selection and training of crew, the interview process is grueling and the training standards during operations are set high.

AAG? Lots of mistakes have been made. Nobody doubts that but I do see improvements being made as the partner airline is getting more involved. I still see a LOT of grey areas where MPL is concerened and only time will tell what exactly the regulations will stipulate with regards to the ATPL conversion but as I have said time and time again its the fastest way to the airline. If I had the choice I would have gone the MPL route when I first started my training. ( Not to say that flying in the bush, instructing, corporate flying at low wages wasn't fun but the ultimate airline goal takes time in the traditional route)

@ Fluffy5 & vfenext
 

@ Vfenext

I didn't mention that it wasn't done before !!! Even Air Arabia knows that :ok:

Check lines 3,4 & 5 ;)

News Details | Air Arabia

@ Fluffy5

Thanks for the Hopes & Wishes :ok: talking about the contacts in GCAA, well, that was the case until the End of 2010...then there were no contacts ;)

As long as I am SATISFACTORILY doing my Job, I guess, I will stick around with ABY for a while, maybe a BIG while...only time can tell...when I joined AAG & thus ABY in 2009, I wasn't that sure about Airarabia's commitments to let us in...but getting in-touch with the Management (All Management) including the CEO, I felt there were no boundaries, with their Open Door Policy, I can raise my point(s)/Comment(s) on the spot & get an immediate reply...Which gives me a rough idea of what is awaiting us...MPL

Talking about fuel discounts...well, being a FO & thus one of the Authorized people to sign for Fuel Receipts...I guess it is not the case with Air Arabia PJSC, google "PJSC" :) you might be right...maybe it is done on the other side of the airport (in the accountants office)...:confused:

Can anyone at Alpha aviation UAE tell me how is the quality of training (ground and flight training)? I don't want to spend money for a training which is not good, the life of many people will depend on me.

well that's new anything official from either side???

Hi guys,
I've received some documents from Alpha Aviation, one of which states that we have to pay for line training ( not included in the US $140,000). :=

I've also received the schedule for selection:

Day 1 : Aptitude and personality tests
Day 2 : English/Maths/Physics tests and Personal Interview
Day 3 : Group exercises and Interview with Air Arabia pilots
The cost for selection is AED 1,500. :{

Initially I thought that all the ground and sim instructors are UAE nationals but I've read on other forums that they are Uk nationals, Is that true? It doesn't make any difference to me, just curious to know.

just like every airline in UAE there is a good mix of UAE nationals and EU expats.:ok: best wishes for the assessment... pls practise your English v imp for the test.

Thanks RP-C000 :ok:

Do you know how much does the line training cost?

I just finished an assessment over two days only. Is that normal or is it because of Ramadhan timings??

Multi-crew Pilot Licence (MPL) | Alpha Aviation Group

you can download all the info from here.

Mr. R pls give your feedback how was the assessments...

there is nothing about the cost of line training.

Main: +971 6 557 4243 ext. 114
Mobile.: +971 50 170 6153
Fax: +971 6 557 4246
Email: [email protected]

here is contact info

just noticed the course page outline has changed and the references are from CAAP not GCAA

Overall the assessment was professional but not complete as I expected

I've noticed the same mistake!

Why not? what did they say?
Check you private message Mr. R

GAA did not sign anything yet and nothing is official as of 8/5/2012. I am wondering why are you mentioning their full names on the forums :rolleyes:

ICAO | FLS | FAQs from ICAO website

Multi-Crew Pilot Licence (MPL)

What is the MPL?

The MPL allows a pilot to exercise the privileges of a co-pilot in a commercial air transportation on multi-crew aeroplanes. It provides the aviation community with an opportunity to train pilots directly for co-pilot duties. It is a new licence that has been introduced in addition to the existing pilot licences defined in Annex 1 — Personnel Licensing.

The licence focuses on ab initio airline pilot training. MPL training and assessment will be competency-based and involve a multi-crew environment and threat and error management from the onset. It provides for greater use of flight simulation training devices and include mandatory upset training. At this stage, only aeroplanes are considered for this new licence. The details of the requirements for the licence are contained in Annex 1 — Personnel Licensing and in the Procedures for Air Navigation Services — Training (PANS-TRG). These documents outline the minimum international Standard for the implementation of the MPL by any State; they can be purchased directly from ICAO through the Document Sales Unit.

Will the MPL be recognized by Contracting States?

As a licence defined by ICAO the MPL will be recognized by all ICAO Contracting States even by those that may decide not to establish an MPL as a licence within their own States. More details on the recognition of licences by other States can be found on the FAQ on "International recognition of flight crew licences".

What is a multi-crew aeroplane?

It is an aeroplane that requires a flight crew of at least two pilots. One of them is the pilot-in-command (the captain) and the other is the co-pilot (or first officer). All jet air transport aeroplanes and the vast majority of turbine powered air transport aircraft and business jet are multi-crew aeroplanes. The definition in Annex 1 — Personnel Licensing states that it is: "an aircraft required to be operated with a co-pilot as specified in the flight manual or by the air operator certificate."

Do I have to hold a MPL to be a co-pilot on a muti-crew aeroplane?

No, the co-pilot on a multi-crew aeroplane can hold either a MPL or a CPL endorsed with an instrument rating and a type rating on a multi-crew aircraft.

What are the differences between the CPL and the MPL?

For the purposes of operating multi-crew aircraft, the privileges of a MPL are equivalent to those of CPL endorsed with an instrument rating and a type rating on a multi-crew aircraft. However, and because the MPL is geared toward operation of multi-crew airplane, an MPL pilot cannot generally fly on single pilot aeroplane without meeting additional requirements. For example, MPL holders cannot exercise the privileges of a CPL and instrument ratings on single pilot aeroplane without meeting specific actual flight time and flight instruction requirements.

A number of MPL courses may be a modification of the current JAA frozen ATPL or the Transport Canada and FAA CPL/Multi-engine training, but it is expected that the majority will follow the guidance proposed in the Procedures for Air Navigation Services — Training (PANS-TRG) document.

What are the minimum flight hours required for the MPL?

The ICAO Standard for the MPL specifies 240 hours as the minimum number of actual and simulated flight hours performing the functions of the pilot flying and the pilot non-flying. However, the Standard does not specify the breakdown between actual and simulated flight hours and thus allow part of the training curriculum that was traditionally conducted on aeroplane to be done on flight simulation training devices (FSTDs). However, there is a requirement that the applicant meets all the actual flying time for a private pilot licence plus additional actual flying time in instrument, night flying and upset recovery.

Why was the MPL established?

The MPL was established to respond to the growing demand in the aviation training community that felt that the current regulatory regime that dictated a large number of flying hours in solo and on a smaller aircraft was not the most efficient and safe way to train pilots for copilot duties on jet transport aircraft.

Further, there was some perceived negative training in the apprenticeship model that was first developed for flight training in the post second world war era. A number of training organizations and airlines were adamant that modern training techniques and research into the use of modern training devices such as flight simulation training devices needed to be recognized within the ICAO licensing structure. The ICAO Air Navigation Commission formed a Flight Crew Licensing and Training Panel to explore the options and opportunities to address the shortcomings of some current licensing requirements. The competency-based concept and the MPL licence were the outcome of that panel's deliberations.

How can the MPL be implemented?

ICAO has developed the Procedures for Air Navigation Services — Training (PANS-TRG) document to support the implementation of the MPL and will monitor developments in this area through a proof of concept programme. This programme will involve stakeholders from regulatory bodies and industry. In addition, an Air Training Organization must meet the prescribed organizational standards which are also outlined in Annex 1 — Personnel Licensing and the Procedures for Air Navigation Services — Training (PANS-TRG).

What is the status of the MPL regulatory provisions?

The ICAO Council adopted the provisions related to the MPL as part of Amendment 167 to Annex 1 — Personnel Licensing on 10 March 2006. The new provisions will become applicable on 23 November 2006.

FOR THOSE WHO WANTED INFO ON MPL TO ATPL

JAR–FCL 1.290 Flight instruction
(See Appendix 1 to JARFCL
1.261(d))
(See AMC FCL 1.261(d))
An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall be the
holder of a CPL(A), a multi-engine instrument
rating(A) and have received instruction in multicrew
co-operation as required by JAR–FCL
1.261(d) (see Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.261(d)
and AMC FCL 1.261(d)) [or be the holder of a
MPL(A)].
[Amdt.3, 01.07.03; Amdt.7, 01.12.06]

I totally agree to Taras B post. To all the future cadets who are thinking of joining Alpha please go through this thread and think twice. You will find for yourself that you were warned here many times by present and past cadets of this academy.

The side tracking of the real issues continues by the employees of AAG.....

They continue to deviate the attention from the AAG lack of ethics to the merits of the MPL training, which are not in question here.

Despite repeated statements that AAG has fixed all the original mistakes, strato and RP-C000 have chosen to ignore the terrible issues affecting the still unemployed MPL pilots graduated from AAG-Clark in the Philippines.

Isn't it true that they were promised employment upon completion of the course? When will AAG honour their word?

Tread carefully around AAG..... very carefully.....

as a FI..
 

Hello

What about working as a FI for AAG, is there someone here can talk about that?
Thank you

They have moved the core flying phase to australia, the only opportunities are MCC and ground instructors which require a great deal of experience. If you are a TRI/TRE, experienced AME or have something spectacular to bring to the table I would suggest you apply.

AAG is looking for FIs to be based in Clark Philippines; FI are also offered a discounted type rating at the end of the contract. A fleet of C172 glass cockpit is coming soon.

Is anyone in this forum who studied at alpha UAE now flying for Air Arabia?

malirm

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi
Age: 23
Posts: 246

RC-C000 and strato's absence has been noticed. All RP's comments have been deleted......

It seems that AAG's upper management had a hand in this misterious disappearance of two hard core defenders of their business practices.

Why would that be?

we are busy doing our day job mate... alive and well and super good news coming soon
not sure which of my comments are deleted ? :ok:

What happened to cause the failure of these AAG grandiose plans?

Training special: Alpha Aviation's Philippine fillip

Why did Nigel Harwood leave AAG in 2007?

This is how AAG lured people to join them.....

Read the PPT and compare what they said at the APATS and what happened afterwards.

Harwood Ppt Presentation

Has anything changed since then?

The answer is a sound, NO!!!!!!

I'm surprised AAG management didn't stop RP sooner. The posts were total spam and a very amateur attempt to promote a licence which is about as useful as a chocolate teapot!

stop me from telling the facts ? no one is stopping me mate.

The last 4 guys from MPL course in Philippines have passed their A320 check rides and are going to complete their base training (weather permitting ) on their way to successful employment :D

New batches starting soon with cadets from GAA Bahraini nationals all to fly with Air Arabia.

not banned by anyone... still here !... AAG is on to bigger projects; MPL is growing fast. AAG and GAA have partnered to provide GCC nationals with excellent employment opportunities under the Air Arabia MPL programme. :D:ok:

TARAS B see you tomorrow at APATS, AAG is at Booth 41; we hope we can have a discussion like professionals and help you solve your issues. ;)

If she got bored of these posts why would she have deleted all of her posts?

The fact that she deleted her posts only means that AAG asked her to do so.
ie her posts hurt AAG instead of helping them!

Good observation, honestpilot

On the other hand, strato is in a different ball game. He is fully aware of the reasons for RP's disappearance from the forums and is just trying to set up a diversion from the matters at hand.

Lets say, he is beginning to feel the heat of the true facts stated here regarding the malpractices done by AAG. Malpractices that have had and have very negative impact in many families.

Stratos' attempts to conceal the truth are simply pathetic and revealed in his continued distortion of what is dealt with here.

Only the AAG malpractices and not the merits of the MPL training.

But he likes to play dumb.......