Thanks for your reply guys!

Why? What are the major problems now? Is the training conducted by professional instructors or not? You should know that compared with some of the biggest flight school in Europe Alpha Aviation Academy offer a very good scheme, apparently!
What I want to know is if things are changing or not?
It should be a good scheme as soon as you are guaranteed a job with Air Arabia, but if training is not worth it, it's very useless and unprofessional.
Let me know your thoughts guys, I'm in a decision time to visit the school!

come visit the school and meet the team and ask them questions and ask them to show documents until you are satisfied ..:ok:

i have no problems with the instructors. They are great. It is the management that people here have a problem with including the instructors. Why else did so many leave?
The instructors can be the best in the world but if the management are uselss then there is not much that they can do!

Edited to delete txt spk
HWB

I agree with that completely! This person who was in charge of the screening would also help people to cheat and pass the entrance exams.

Well said.

Strato can u stop calling us liars?!

I know that AAG were FORCED to close down their flight line.
No flight school in their right mind would close down the flight line when they have 4 students only a few hours from completing the flight training.

These students had to travel all the way to Australia and spend more months training on a new air craft. As a result Alpha had to pay more money to complete their course. Once again, no company would do that!

Do NOT even think about calling me a liar. I have spoken to these 4 students and none of them were happy about it.

Anyone thinking of parting with a lot of cash to ANY training school should read this first.
Examinership for Pilot Training Centre - The Irish Times - Wed, Jul 18, 2012
Never pay the total amount upfront, always pay as you go. If a school refuses to allow this then they are hiding something. Only deal with schools offering proper FATPL not MPL which is a mickey mouse license issued by the Disneyland CAA.

Where are the solutions?
 

STRATO......

Your attempts to personalize this thread are pathetic..... not to mention that, for someone who pretends to be a simple spares salesman, you know a lot about the inner works of AAG.

Lets get back to the problems at hand, shall we?

Leaving aside the situations highlighted by other posters regarding the operational aspects of the AAG operations, which are a real concern, I stick to the humane negative points that have afflicted those who fell into the trap set-up by AAG since 2007. Yes, some have been skinned for 5 years without an end in sight for their plight.

Sure you, or anybody else, cannot deny this fact.

Since you seem to be so well informed, and have pointed out the "solutions" to the other problems, when will AAG resolve, once and for all, the still remaining serious issues affecting the unemployed MPL pilots in Clark?

Long overdue. Don't you think so?

Getting back to facts.

As long as there is anyone still unemployed after paying for a MPL licence where employment was promised, there is skinning.

But it is the same enterprise despite the changes in personnel. The onus is on the organisation to fulfill its obligations.

Exactly!!! The events that happened several years ago are still not resolved. Until they are, the responsibility lies with AAG no matter who is in charge.

The million dollar question is: When will the outstanding issues be resolved?

Since you say that AAG has almost unlimited resources, it should not be very difficult to find a solution. Why don't they do what is right?

BA Cityflyer MPL
 

A new MPL introduced this week, and many hard written promises.......

link from a Flight International E mail: https://blu151.mail.live.com/default...15ad73b0e&fv=1

Main text:
BA CityFlyer Mentored Airline Pilot Scheme and MPL course

BA CityFlyer, a wholly owned subsidiary of British Airways, is looking for high calibre, well-motivated individuals who are keen to be part of a team working for one of Europe’s most prestigious regional airlines.

This mentored scheme has been developed with our training partner, FTEJerez, to provide a source of quality pre-selected pilots to crew our Embraer aircraft. The top four candidates will be offered a position on the course to commence training at Jerez on 12th of October 2012.

You will undertake training under the Multi-crew Pilots License (MPL) route to the right-hand seat of our aircraft: and, as the final phase of this course, students will undergo a bonded Embraer Type Rating course paid for by the airline.

The prospects within the airline for pilot progression are excellent and the routes we fly are both challenging and rewarding.

To be eligible for this scheme you must have a minimum of 2 A-Level passes, Grade C or above (or equivalent), and have 5 GSCE passes including Maths, English and Physics at Grade C or above, as well as the right to live and work in the UK.



Glf

Mr. R good move pls go visit the facility ask questions and ask for documents speak to students and instructors... :ok:

https://www.facebook.com/AlphaAvGrp

So you are telling me that my friends are lying to me? 2 of them are very honest with me. They are too nice to even lie if they wanted to! One of my friends just had ONE hour left to complete the flying. And u are telling me that alpha made the correct decision of closing down the flying school and sending them to Australia? That cost the student 4 months of wasted time! The student had to wait to get a visa! The learn how to fly the new a/c, then wait for the ASIC card to allow them to go solo! All of this took time. NO company would choose that. Even if the flight line was bad they would still let that student finish their last hour. All students only had some 10 hours left max. Which is not a lot.

So what you are saying is sadly true!


If you are lying then i think it is only fair for me to say this.

Mr R stay away from Alpha. I am stuck here, please do not join me

And Strato i cannot leave. Why? because my ground school exams are not recognized by any flying school outside Alpha. That means i lose another year and need to pay more money to do my ground school again. I have asked this to many flight schools. :(

honestpilot why do you want to quit AAG ? any reasons ? have you failed the ground school ? why dont you explain your issues ?

No RP i scored 90%+

Since i did MPL ground school no one will recognize it.

I jsut do not like how alpha is run. They say they are trying to improve but that to me seems like lies

if you score 90%+ and soon you will be a successfully pilot with ABY in reality you have no issues with AAG.
There are people who are upset the way Emirates and British airways is run.. if you have a real issue raise the problem to the AAG management.

Don't worry honestpilot you can go to any Disneyland with your AAG MPL and they will let you get on any of the rides. It's a mickey mouse licence after all.

vfenext.. so the 2 largest airlines BA & LH also must be wrong to run the MPL programme.

British Airways Pilot Training | Future Pilot Programme | Airline Pilot Training | CTC Wings

Lufthansa Pilot - Lufthansa Flight Training

pls sir do your research before making random statements.

AAG are not offering any guarantee so just give it a wide berth and stay away. If LH and BA are offering an MPL then you might consider that route but certainly not from a half assed outfit offering a possibility of a job with a low cost carrier. Remember the same amount of money will get you a REAL license with a proper school which will be accepted worldwide. Unless of course you fancy a career at Disneyland working with Mickey Mouse

rp please do not mention those MPL airlines in the same bracket as AAG MPL.

As u can see from the post GulfStream made the BA MPL is FREE for the students. So as a result they will only pick the best students. They will also go through procedures quickly and properly as after all it their money that is being spent.

And thanks Vfenext. I will apply to Disneyland! I hope to think that Disneyland in Florida will accept my MPL. :D

Finance | British Airways Pilot Training | Future Pilot Programme | CTC Wings
once again get your facts right.. the course is NOT FREE...



Traditionally raising the money for flight training has proven to be one of the greatest hurdles to becoming an airline pilot. As a result many people have been prevented or deterred from applying.

To ensure an even playing field enabling all those with the talent to join BA’s future team, British Airways will where necessary provide a guarantee to enable a successful FPP applicant to secure a bank loan for the funds required. Each successful applicant will also be issued with a conditional offer of employment. This is a unique feature of the Future Pilot Programme making pilot training more accessible to a wider range of people.

not sure the fascination with Disney here ?

honestpilot.. you have no real issues and soon you will be a pilot ... so whats the issue here..

pls note the word is conditional offer of employment no airline in the world offers anything more than that.. if you perform well you get the job.

5 Cents
 

Strato

If what you say is true, that you are a mere sales man providing spare parts to AAG , and I say again "IF", because almost everything you have mentioned here is pure BS and your best rebuttal to the truth and what has and is still going on is .
Then all I can do is wish you all the best of success with your future endeavors with AAG. It is clear to everyone that you and AAG are made to work together as both you and AAG share the same level of professionalism when it comes to aviation.
But again "IF" what you said is true about yourself and your true intentions with AAG, then you should take a lot of what has been said here with a little caution. Maybe you should make sure that the contracts and agreements you have or will be signing with AAG for your services are well defined and you are protected. If you recall Risk's post not to long ago :
We wouldn't want you later on to be chanting bad things about AAG when things go sour your way, would be now. Of course not.:}
By now, if you haven't also, you should be asking yourself why Clark Av/AAg could never sustain a proper maintenance company also. You don't seriously think your the first are you. Are you sure you have all the details of what transpired with their previous maintenance contracts. Or like everything you have ever mentioned might have been what they wanted you to know. Again "IF " what you say is true. lol:E.
If so then you will know that more than once students would go to the flight line to fly, only to find out that their flights were cancelled because AAG hadn't paid for the fuel, That AAG's bills were running in the tens of thousands of US dollar's to companies providing the same services you claim that you will be doing also.
Instead of been so negative and trying to put the wool over peoples eyes, you should take what is said here and implement it to yourself and your future success. :ugh:
But again, its a big "IF" because not much truth has ever come out of your posts. Where you come out saying that there is only one unemployed MPL cadet, no one knows. Again one can only think that its what AAG would want you to know, or that, that's what you want the aviation community to know. FYI there is more than one unemployed cadet still at Clark Av.
But even if it was just one, remember It only takes one to bring a mountain down. You have to ask yourself why AAG hasn't been able to get those cadets a job yet.
You have people like RPC 000 telling Honestpilot that he shouldn't be worried or hes class mates because soon he will be a first officer with ABY, while in fact there's MPL cadets with licence's in hand who are not employed. What has happened can and will happen again.
No one here will deny the fact that AAG would like to turn the page. But a simple re-branding is not enough. And treating the cadets who are still waiting with an "out of sight is out of mind" attitude is also not the way a company who states its a world class organisation should be run.
TARAS B is correct about everything so far, I for one,am and will always be grateful for Capt Garcia. If not for him I and many probably wouldn't be employed right now. What we had to endure to get to where we are I would never wish this on my worst enemy ( not even you Strato ), but to have to sit down with those who are still in the grasps of AAG over coffee, saddens my heart, listening to them loosing all their hopes and dreams.
I caution anyone and everyone when it comes to AAG, Including any company that will be doing business with them.

Call me stupid but has anyone else noticed that all the marketing posts and updates of what is going on in Clark Philippines ( the facebook pictures of the new sim ) is all been posted here in the Middle East forum and not in the South East Asian forum. It might be presumptuous for me to say, but could it be that AAG, Stato, RPC000, would prefer that the Clark Av forum be forgotten. Again "out of sight, is out of mind" correct. Wouldn't it make sense to post the updates their also...:ugh::ugh:
Just my 5 cents on that matter.

So RP, do your ALL your trainees get this conditional letter of employment issued by the AIRLINE?, and is it genuine?,and is it presented to the trainee prior to them paying for the course signed by the AIRLINE? or printed in the local print shop?

once again rp u REFUSE to read what i type

That is what I wrote. Not just

Do research on that website. Any company would do research on their rivals but I guess that is everyone apart from Alpha.

So let me do it for u

The Multi-crew Pilots License (MPL) | FTEJerez

read that website and so that u do not make a mistake again I will quote the important section.

So as u can see the airline PAYS for it. That is what a sponsorship is right?

I have problems on the promises u guys have broken, how it is k for u guys to break the contracts but not for us. When we first joined Shj we were told that our flying would be done in Shj. Suddenly because AAG could not maintain a flying line, sent us to Aus. Fine Aus is a good experience but I am talking about they way the business is handled.

I do not like how the contracts were made to sign late by several students. 7 months after they joined from what I have been told.

Finally I do not like how after these mistakes occur instead of apologizing u guys say '' liar liar'' or '' u are so full of s**t''

FInally Ironbutt

No they do not make u sign a contract with the airline before u join. Only after u have completed the MPL. Now what IF Air Arabia decides to pull out after u joined? Air Arabia are under NO obligation to take u. If they want they can just stop taking more students from AAG or just make them wait for a few months.

Just do not bother with AAG Ironbutt. Look at the number of unhappy students. Past or present. We are not ALL liars. I am a student and whatever has been said here is true. I not not unsure about anything. Instead of AAG correcting their past mistakes they are calling us all liars.

Which i hate. And yes, even after IF i get a job at AAG I will be here warning students about the risk of joining AAG unless i get the feeling that things are actually improving AND all the problems with the past students have been solved with. Hopefully I will have time to write such posts. :(

ironbutt57..nothing is made on a local shop... here is the proof of the relationship of AAG & ABY

Group | Air Arabia

Alpha Aviation Academy | Air Arabia

honestpilot.. really would be nice to see you soon in the ABY FO uniform.. then you can tell everyone what a waste the MPL course was for you. :=

once AGAIN RP u REFUSE to READ what has been asked! And, then u wonder why I get upset. U just refused to answer the questions.

That is what he asked. He was not asking if it is true that AAG and Air Arabia have ties or not. He is asking about the contracts?! How does ur link answer that question. It does not.

And you have not really commented on my post! Why!? Cause what I am saying is right and as usual u avoid commenting on it!

Lastly yes even IF i get the job at Air Arabia I will mention that AAG is not good and very risky to do an MPL with them!

RP, it astounds me how stupid you are. You keep coming back here to defend the indefensible. The MPL that AAG is offering is a pile of poo and the dogs in the street know it. If you just stopped BS'ing the threads would just go away, but your constant attempts to say your piece means it goes on and on. You are doing more damage than good and with all the irate people at AAG this will never go away...until you do!! You have well and truly lost the debate so give up.

vfenext.. very nice choice of words.. personally attacking people on the forum. :=:ugh:

You just can't give up can you. If you stop coming back then the threads will go away. The management of AAG must really love your version of PR.

RP u are the onewho personally attacks people. U and strato basically call us all liars

@honestpilot

Regardless of the screw ups in the beginning with AAG. Isn't the end result still the same? You are going to complete your line training with Air Arabia and most likely get a job given the current demand.

MPL is new and there are going to be mistakes made but it is the future of training.

I dont doubt the fact that AAG needs to get there act together and stop thinking about more than just their bottom line but at the end of the day you are going to get on an A320 faster than any CPL/IR/ME holder who will have to wait years before he/she gets on the right sight of a jet.

yes agreed but why hide these mistakes. They deny them and call us all liars.

Then they do not want to rectify those mistakes! Is it fair that people here are saying that some students have been hard done by? yes, some may not have been that good but it is easier just to blame the students for any failures than to look at ways where AAG made mistakes.

That is what i do not like!

The compass test is a bit of a joke, i agree and more due diligence must be done on the behalf of management to ensure that the selection process is stringent but none of this changes the fact that results have been accomplished through the program candidates have finished their line training and are now employed with Air Arabia.

Being a former flight instructor and examiner my self I realize that students learn at a different pace but sometimes you just have to make the call that someone is not cut out for this sort of program (that cant always be foreseen in a compass/psychometric test).

Focus on your type rating and line training material, dont occupy your mind with what happened in the past. This is aviation. Operators/Flight Training Units/Regulators all have major screw ups, we learn, laugh and eventually move on trying to make a positive change. Constant complaining about it doesn't it solve the problem.

If compass tests cannot tell if u will do well in flight school what is the point in them?!

I heard that someone scored less than 15 in his compass exam and was passed to enter the flying school!

15!! out of 35?!

come on anyone can say that this student will struggle! Not a laughing matter. That student has lost a ton of money and 2 years of his life after his flying was stopped.

If that happened to you or ur son I do not think u would find it funny!

pfvspnf

Perhaps you don't know that there are MPL pilots from AAG Clark that are still unemployed, contrary to all the promises made to them.

Enrolled in 2007, paid in full for the training, went through ALL the delays and management changes and are presently in limbo, without any interest shown by AAG to resolve the situations.

If AAG cannot fulfill their obligations, then the right thing to do is to reimburse and pay compensation to those people. Why don't they?

This thread is not about the merits or demerits of the MPL but rather about the AAG attitude towards those who have lost everything chasing a dream.

@honestpilot

I have worked with students who have struggled initially but have become world class airline pilots in time. I dont agree with compass testing and a score they give you out of 35 is not relavant if the student has the right attitude and is willing to put in the work to learn the material. It comes down to personality too, training is a two way street.

Im not defending alpha and the way the situation was handled but I do feel a single test shouldn't make or brake someones aspirations, that can only determined once training has started. MPL is no cake walk, regardless of your initial score it takes effort on the part of the cadet to excel.

@trav

What is the reason for them being unemployed? Did they not meet the standard?

From my understanding the partner airline is doing its best to indoctrinate all cadets that have completed the program successfully.

pfvspnf

Those pilots are from AAG Clark in the Philippines. AAG only placed some Indian MPL pilots in Air Arabia because they had a protecting clause in their contracts.

AAG doesn't care about the others. Why don't they manage to influence AA to accept the remaining guys for line training? They sure meet all the requirements.

Pure incompetence from AAG.

Im not sure what went down in the Philippines but I can think of a few reasons why AA cannot accept those cadets at this moment in time :

- There is already a back log of cadets from the AAG Sharjah that need to complete Line Training

- The Clark cadets might have been trained under a slightly different SOP and might need to be retrained in the sim.

- Their currency would have definitely lapsed and would require retraining, flying is all about currency, if im out of it for a month , we all get completely useless.

- A Foreign MPL might not be recognized under the UAE Civil Aviation Authority . (You would have to look up the Civil Aviation Regulations for that)

- The Memorandum of Understanding was probably between AA and AAG Sharjah and it might not be easy to get cadets from other countries.

These are just guesses but I do hope that those cadets find a solution. I would most certainly like to know what exactly happened.

pfvspnf
Well the cadet scored 12 out of 35 in his compass scores when Epst recommends minimum of 24 out of 35. This cadet was well below the limit and actually failed the screening test but was instead issued a letter that he successfully completed the pilot assessment test. He got a score of 1 out of 7 in two sections which strongly indicated that he will face problems in his core flying and even if he put in his best effort he will not be able to complete his core flying in 70 hours.
Compass scores are relevant because the cadet did do well in his ground school but could not fly as predicted by compass and thus wasted 2 years and DH 300,000 ++ Alpha did play with this cadets time and cheated him of his money. Would you like to be in his shoes. He did not lack motivation or the right attitude and was better than his mates in ground school but lacked the physical skills or the aptitude to become a pilot which came across clearly in his compass scores. Alpha should not have taken him but they did not care since they just were interested in getting his money. If he was aware of his compass score do you think he would have joined Alpha. He came to know about his pathetic compass score after one year when he had finished his ground school and started his core flying.
Alpha not only enrolled him but indicated by issuing the letter that he had the ability to become a pilot contrary to his scores. This is misleading and incorrect since you cannot expect the candidate or his parents to understand the pilot selection system. Cadets should be able to trust the advice of the flying school and for sure i warn cadets not to make the mistake of joining Alpha and trusting Alpha. Why have a sham selection process just take in anyone who walks through your door.
Infact i will go a step further and say compass tool which is used successfully around the world is unethically being used by Alpha.

I have done the compass test before;

- Flying the flight directors and the heading indicator along with the speed tape for a couple of minutes cant tell you much about a persons abilities.

If Alpha did change the results, that is not ethical.

What were the issues that came up in the core flying stage? If he did well in the groundschool he would have had his instrument procedures down before he got in the airplane. Was it the basic handling? Circuits? Radio Work? - All of these things can usually be fixed , especially if a person has the ground knowledge covered.

From what i heard he struggled in multi tasking. For example if he was asked to fly at 5000ft he would be able to do it. If he was then asked to fly at 5000ft and maintain N he would struggle a bit. The plane was also not in balance and he flew one wing down most of the time.

When he came to the circuits he struggled as a result. He would not be able to do more than 2 tasks at a time.

He also scored poorly in the multi tasking part of the compass exams. In his ground school he was good. I was with him for 3 months and he did well in all his exams. He scored about 89% avg and he did not learn the question bank.

If u say that the compass is not important then why is it that compass companies have a recommended pass mark of 24? He apparently scored 11? And he failed at flying. Does that not tell us that we should heed what the compass companies recommend?

pfvspnf
Well his compass scores were kept confidential and not revealed to him but he was instead issued a letter saying he had successfully completed his pilot assessment which mislead him to believe that he had the aptitude to become a pilot which he lacked. You dont learn at you own pace in Alpha since this cadet was removed after 23 hours of flying and on the request of his parents given another 10 hours a total of only 33 hours when he had payed for 70 hours of flying and Alpha decided to keep rest of his money. Alpha continues to make mistakes but will not compensate cadets for the mistakes made by them. If in two sections of compass he had got 1 out of 7 how could he complete his core flying in the required 70 hours. Before he joined he should have been told about his pathetic compass scores so that he could have made an informed decision. Cadets with low compass scores are high risk cadets and should not be taken and no other flying school will do it but Alpha is unique. I can assure you there will be many cadets with low compass scores sitting in Alpha who will not be hired in the end by Air Arabia for no fault of theirs and they stand to lose huge amount of money.
Alpha makes the mistakes and gets away easily having made naive cadets sign a one sided contract which was handed down to cadets 5 months into their training when the cadets were left with no other option but to sign. In my batch of 9 two have already been removed and who benefits with their entrenchments is Alpha.