EK to Decommission 50%+ of Airbus A380, Axe 1/2 of Pilots & Cabin Crew
year at many airlines!
Join Date: May 2011
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That's the point. If you need a job, you need a job.
It has disappointed me somewhat how few of our over 60's have been able to retire gracefully. In my opinion, you put yourself into a position financially to retire at 60 and then if you get a few bonus years then good for you. But in the case of a pandemic like this, just have the integrity to hang up your boots if you're 60+.
It has disappointed me somewhat how few of our over 60's have been able to retire gracefully. In my opinion, you put yourself into a position financially to retire at 60 and then if you get a few bonus years then good for you. But in the case of a pandemic like this, just have the integrity to hang up your boots if you're 60+.
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Integrity: Strong Moral and ethical principles and values
I stand by what I said.
Pilots are generally an intelligent group and that includes smart financial planning. Everyone who has had a career as an Airline Pilot should insure that they're in a position to retire by 60. Whilst in normal circumstances we all have every right to continue our careers to 65, these unfortunately are not normal circumstances. It is evident that there is a significant oversupply of Pilots during the Pandemic, this will last from start to finish around 4 years.
Whilst Cadets and the very Junior element should suffer the brunt of these unfortunate circumstances. I also think that the over 60's shouldn't be hanging in there hoping to be called back from furlough or unpaid leave. I believe that those guy's should retire gracefully and with integrity.
I stand by what I said.
Pilots are generally an intelligent group and that includes smart financial planning. Everyone who has had a career as an Airline Pilot should insure that they're in a position to retire by 60. Whilst in normal circumstances we all have every right to continue our careers to 65, these unfortunately are not normal circumstances. It is evident that there is a significant oversupply of Pilots during the Pandemic, this will last from start to finish around 4 years.
Whilst Cadets and the very Junior element should suffer the brunt of these unfortunate circumstances. I also think that the over 60's shouldn't be hanging in there hoping to be called back from furlough or unpaid leave. I believe that those guy's should retire gracefully and with integrity.
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That's a poor excuse. The 45 year old guy with a family has more moral right to a job than the 63 year old that has made poor decisions. If you're a career Airline Pilot and you're not ready to retire in your early 60's you've screwed up badly somewhere. These guys try to make the 45 year old pay, they have seniority, they take the first call back to work.
As I said in the first place, I'm disappointed with the lack of integrity amongst some of the over 60's during this pandemic. Call it a day, hang up your boots. There isn't a job for everyone over the coming couple of years.
As I said in the first place, I'm disappointed with the lack of integrity amongst some of the over 60's during this pandemic. Call it a day, hang up your boots. There isn't a job for everyone over the coming couple of years.
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what an outrageous statement. It’s not how the world works and certainly not how aviation works. Obviously you’d feel differently if you were nearing 60 surely. Don’t say you wouldn’t, and you would be better prepared. Bluddy how many guys in that age group had their entire pension cannibalized after 9/11. It’s not a stable industry full stop. How you do has a lot to do with timing as well.
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I absolutely would not feel differently. I don't think it's an outrageous statement at all. I think it's much more outrageous that a 60+ guy, that should have planned better, is now making his 45 year old colleague pay for his incompetence.
I've had as rocky a career as anyone. I've always managed to put enough into a pension scheme to be able to retire at 60. For most of my career 60 has been the retirement age.
I'm saying that I know that there are guys that need to work beyond 60 and there are those that just want to cling on to the job for whatever reason. I'm disappointed by how many there are and how few are willing to just gracefully retire under the current circumstances. By my count, it's about 80% that cling on.
I've had as rocky a career as anyone. I've always managed to put enough into a pension scheme to be able to retire at 60. For most of my career 60 has been the retirement age.
I'm saying that I know that there are guys that need to work beyond 60 and there are those that just want to cling on to the job for whatever reason. I'm disappointed by how many there are and how few are willing to just gracefully retire under the current circumstances. By my count, it's about 80% that cling on.
Last edited by kungfu panda; 28th Mar 2021 at 05:09.
KUNFU PANDA-
Sooooo - You planned for SARS, the GFC, COVD19. You are a prescient genius. FFS. You are immune from Divorce, or some sort of financial calamity?
My cousin, not in aviation, but a farmer, 60, had is family house burn down just before Christmas. Then in Feb 21, a cyclone destroyed all of his banana crop. By YOUR reckoning he should just chuck it all away, move aside and let a younger bloke take ov
You can't possibly know, the circumstances of your elders, and for you to just say, Nahhh, you should retire at 60 or you are selfish, is probably the most idiotic thing I have ever heard on here.
Why stop at 60, I reckon you are being a selfish bloke by stopping all those 21 year olds flying in an airline, I reckon you should just leave the industry and let a younger person take your spot.
I think it's much more outrageous that a 60+ guy, that should have planned better
Sooooo - You planned for SARS, the GFC, COVD19. You are a prescient genius. FFS. You are immune from Divorce, or some sort of financial calamity?
My cousin, not in aviation, but a farmer, 60, had is family house burn down just before Christmas. Then in Feb 21, a cyclone destroyed all of his banana crop. By YOUR reckoning he should just chuck it all away, move aside and let a younger bloke take ov
You can't possibly know, the circumstances of your elders, and for you to just say, Nahhh, you should retire at 60 or you are selfish, is probably the most idiotic thing I have ever heard on here.
Why stop at 60, I reckon you are being a selfish bloke by stopping all those 21 year olds flying in an airline, I reckon you should just leave the industry and let a younger person take your spot.
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kungfu panda
So now you need an excuse to keep bringing on to the table a whole life of skills, experience, and wisdom? My god...
I'm one of those 45.years old pilots with a family to feed and, if nothing improves in the coming months, I'll be going under the wheels myself, which means financial obliteration. I'm certainly not the first and won't be the last case to suffer it in this pandemic, c'est la vie. But it hasn't crossed my mind that someone in his/her sixties should quit just to make room for me. Those old guys made aviation what it is today, trained me, and made me the professional I am. Granted, there is always the odd bitter old fart (not looking at anyone here), but apart from that, everyone I know who is about to retire contributes to aviation way more than I do through the factors stated above, and I hope I can do the same when my time comes.
It is just plain sad that you don't see yourself as having more added value, I feel sorry for you.
So now you need an excuse to keep bringing on to the table a whole life of skills, experience, and wisdom? My god...
I'm one of those 45.years old pilots with a family to feed and, if nothing improves in the coming months, I'll be going under the wheels myself, which means financial obliteration. I'm certainly not the first and won't be the last case to suffer it in this pandemic, c'est la vie. But it hasn't crossed my mind that someone in his/her sixties should quit just to make room for me. Those old guys made aviation what it is today, trained me, and made me the professional I am. Granted, there is always the odd bitter old fart (not looking at anyone here), but apart from that, everyone I know who is about to retire contributes to aviation way more than I do through the factors stated above, and I hope I can do the same when my time comes.
It is just plain sad that you don't see yourself as having more added value, I feel sorry for you.
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Well I guess those over 60's will be happy to hear that you consider their career as more important than your own.
To other post. I wasn't talking about farmers.
Look this will last 4 years. Therefore a 61 year old at the start of the Pandemic is really surplus to requirements for his remaining career time but because of seniority we throw a 45 year old under the bus, who should have at least 16 more useful years and who probably is not in as healthy a financial position to leave his job. As somebody said, this is the way aviation works but to me it's madness. That career time from 60 to 65 needs to be "subject to requirement". Seniority should end when you turn 60. That would be reasonable.
To other post. I wasn't talking about farmers.
Look this will last 4 years. Therefore a 61 year old at the start of the Pandemic is really surplus to requirements for his remaining career time but because of seniority we throw a 45 year old under the bus, who should have at least 16 more useful years and who probably is not in as healthy a financial position to leave his job. As somebody said, this is the way aviation works but to me it's madness. That career time from 60 to 65 needs to be "subject to requirement". Seniority should end when you turn 60. That would be reasonable.
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Kungfu, in all seriousness, do you breathe the same air as the rest of us humans?
why do you feel the moral superiority to say who has the right, or lack of, to continue his career to the end? Integrity? Integrity is what you seem to be lacking. People are free, we all play by the same rules (kinda), but wanting people to move aside and let YOU continue the fight it is not only ridiculous, but just makes you look like a spoiled kid.
do us a favor and stop posting BS
why do you feel the moral superiority to say who has the right, or lack of, to continue his career to the end? Integrity? Integrity is what you seem to be lacking. People are free, we all play by the same rules (kinda), but wanting people to move aside and let YOU continue the fight it is not only ridiculous, but just makes you look like a spoiled kid.
do us a favor and stop posting BS
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and what about the people who only started their flying career in their 30's or 40's? Should they have precedence over their more experienced colleagues simply based on age? No. Stop feeding this troll, he's an idiot.
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eimin
There's a lot of people that agree with my view. In fact the opponents posting on this thread are in the minority.
I have been disappointed that so many guys with such little time left have failed to have the integrity just to call it a day.
I don't need anyone to move out of the way for me.
Your post is making it tit for tat. The selfish spoiled kids are the opponents to this view, obviously.
Do us a favour. Don't tell people who can or can't post their opinions.
There's a lot of people that agree with my view. In fact the opponents posting on this thread are in the minority.
I have been disappointed that so many guys with such little time left have failed to have the integrity just to call it a day.
I don't need anyone to move out of the way for me.
Your post is making it tit for tat. The selfish spoiled kids are the opponents to this view, obviously.
Do us a favour. Don't tell people who can or can't post their opinions.