EK 380s
Glofish,
At least you are honest. But as you don't know what the promised specs were, you can't really argue its under performing.
Your argument re yeild of 380 vs 777 is also flawed. What amount of available zero fuel weight is required to be filled for the 777 to make a profit? Is this hampered when it needs to be restricted to carry extra fuel on longer sectors? You and I do not have the facts required to work this one out. But Timbo did state that EK was losing $US20mil per month due to the Boeing taking 380 sectors while the wing gets sorted. So maybe the fleet planning department have the mix right.
You can argue that the whole wing debacle is being extremely poorly handled by Airbus. And on this one you would be right.
The Don
At least you are honest. But as you don't know what the promised specs were, you can't really argue its under performing.
Your argument re yeild of 380 vs 777 is also flawed. What amount of available zero fuel weight is required to be filled for the 777 to make a profit? Is this hampered when it needs to be restricted to carry extra fuel on longer sectors? You and I do not have the facts required to work this one out. But Timbo did state that EK was losing $US20mil per month due to the Boeing taking 380 sectors while the wing gets sorted. So maybe the fleet planning department have the mix right.
You can argue that the whole wing debacle is being extremely poorly handled by Airbus. And on this one you would be right.
The Don
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Almost agree on the last two contributions.
apart from:
It will also be greatly answered by AB with their penalty payments and therefore distorted as to the down to earth economics.
No one of us will know exactly how much they will have to shove over.
My two cents for the future are on a maximum of about 40 units, and that would be a clear verdict.
But I agree, and have stipulated that very early on on other threads, time will tell.
apart from:
The second question, on the economics will be answered by Emirates themselves.
No one of us will know exactly how much they will have to shove over.
My two cents for the future are on a maximum of about 40 units, and that would be a clear verdict.
But I agree, and have stipulated that very early on on other threads, time will tell.
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The Three Captains
If you guys want so hear what you sound like just listen to the rather nauseating
puerile dialogue on ICE at the moment called " The Three Captains"
Chief Pilot A380 vs Chief Pilot Boeing having a conversation worthy of a Punch and Judy show with TCAS in the middle nervously not trying to take sides and piss of the locals as usual.
When I first heard it I was dead-heading in uniform. I seriously considered asking the FG1s for a pair of F class pajamas to wear to leave the aircraft without anyone thinking I was in any way associate with EK flight crew. Just in case anyone on board had listened to it too and thought it representative of what EK as a whole.
Embarrassing for any professional however the willy waving and juvenile sniping demonstrated in this thread shows that some of our crew take their lead from those above.
Sad
puerile dialogue on ICE at the moment called " The Three Captains"Chief Pilot A380 vs Chief Pilot Boeing having a conversation worthy of a Punch and Judy show with TCAS in the middle nervously not trying to take sides and piss of the locals as usual.
When I first heard it I was dead-heading in uniform. I seriously considered asking the FG1s for a pair of F class pajamas to wear to leave the aircraft without anyone thinking I was in any way associate with EK flight crew. Just in case anyone on board had listened to it too and thought it representative of what EK as a whole.
Embarrassing for any professional however the willy waving and juvenile sniping demonstrated in this thread shows that some of our crew take their lead from those above.
Sad
Apologies for butting in here, but question- TC has more than once responded to the question about 2-class A380 in EK saying that they have no plans and have not asked AB for it... is that article quoting him directly, or are they just speculating?
I recall back a couple years they were saying it was not viable to have 2 variants in the fleet and they weren't needed... is it because of the imminent re-shuffle of flying between 'fleets' on the CC side that they're now considering it, or just another rumour?
When you say 'regional' I'm assuming we're talking Asia/subcontinent where perhaps the F loads aren't that high and it's not needed... however I can't see much use for a 2 class going to the likes of JED... it's always crammed... unless of course they use a 2 class and replace the T7 or the 330 flights intra-gulf during peak periods. Can't see them needing more than a few 2 class though if that's the plan.... unless of course they know something we don't about India...?
I recall back a couple years they were saying it was not viable to have 2 variants in the fleet and they weren't needed... is it because of the imminent re-shuffle of flying between 'fleets' on the CC side that they're now considering it, or just another rumour?
When you say 'regional' I'm assuming we're talking Asia/subcontinent where perhaps the F loads aren't that high and it's not needed... however I can't see much use for a 2 class going to the likes of JED... it's always crammed... unless of course they use a 2 class and replace the T7 or the 330 flights intra-gulf during peak periods. Can't see them needing more than a few 2 class though if that's the plan.... unless of course they know something we don't about India...?
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When it comes to yield (which would not cover the above presumption, but we'll take it as this covers the profit and you know I like profit!!) I have to rely on what the station managers say (off the record naturally), that is the 380 only generates profits if almost full and with full fare premium passengers.
These would be the same station managers that sing Airbus praises and bemoan the Boeing crews to us when we are there and 3 hours later sing Boeing praises and bemoan the Airbus crew when you guys are there.
Look up the word gullibility, and while your at it, on your next flight, ask your most junior Grade 2 which aircraft she thinks is better. I've got a pretty good idea what her answer will be. I know what her answer will be when I ask here the same question on my flight.
Last edited by three eighty; 27th May 2012 at 08:48.
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Seeing some posts on the EK 2nd Daily to LAX thread about 380 training cranking up again in the near future so I wanted to address it here.
Put simply, lay off the hallucinogenic mushrooms.
The wing crack problem is real. Emirates has really cancelled 380 pilot classes 2 or 3 times already in the past few months. Emirates really is spending loads of money training 380 cabin crew on the 777. Sound like it’s turning around to you?
Airbus themselves have already estimated a 2013 or 2014 timeframe. EK Airbus cheerleaders will shout about the big 380 training boom that will happen then.
Wrong.
By 2014 the European economy will be in full recession. Obama will be sitting there across the pond staring at the NO LIGHTOFF master caution for the 6th year in a row wondering why the US economy won’t recover. China will probably be OK but that will keep training going at places like China Southern, not Emirates.
Face it ladies. The Airbus side of EK is screwed for a long time to come. Lots of tedious all-night turnarounds to India, Muscat, Dammam, etc for many years to come on the Airbus side of the house. 777 still doing great. Remember all you wannabees out there. . . if you take the airbus. . . you’ll be s-o-r-r-r-r-r-r-y ! !
Put simply, lay off the hallucinogenic mushrooms.
The wing crack problem is real. Emirates has really cancelled 380 pilot classes 2 or 3 times already in the past few months. Emirates really is spending loads of money training 380 cabin crew on the 777. Sound like it’s turning around to you?
Airbus themselves have already estimated a 2013 or 2014 timeframe. EK Airbus cheerleaders will shout about the big 380 training boom that will happen then.
Wrong.
By 2014 the European economy will be in full recession. Obama will be sitting there across the pond staring at the NO LIGHTOFF master caution for the 6th year in a row wondering why the US economy won’t recover. China will probably be OK but that will keep training going at places like China Southern, not Emirates.
Face it ladies. The Airbus side of EK is screwed for a long time to come. Lots of tedious all-night turnarounds to India, Muscat, Dammam, etc for many years to come on the Airbus side of the house. 777 still doing great. Remember all you wannabees out there. . . if you take the airbus. . . you’ll be s-o-r-r-r-r-r-r-y ! !
You forget that not everyone wants to do layovers and long trips. For some, turnarounds mean time at home with the family. It's all in your perspective.
I do find it amusing though when people describe certain aspects of EK in this forum as 'slave labour'. Look around- while the schedule may be tough pilots and CC are most certainly not slave labour, those guys are the ones doing the real tough work in Dubai...
HamFan, that is true re: cruise comment. I guess they are just seeing the writing on the wall like everyone else and changing ops to suit....
I do find it amusing though when people describe certain aspects of EK in this forum as 'slave labour'. Look around- while the schedule may be tough pilots and CC are most certainly not slave labour, those guys are the ones doing the real tough work in Dubai...
HamFan, that is true re: cruise comment. I guess they are just seeing the writing on the wall like everyone else and changing ops to suit....
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But why not hold out for the 777 and just bid turnarounds? That way you have the option to do long-haul international flying and see the world if you decide later that you want to.
Many of us when asked in the interview why we wanted to come to Emirates answered that we want to be long haul pilots, yet still we were offered the airbus. Now we’re stuck with a handful of crap layovers in Africa, some bad timings to a few so-so European layovers, and tons & tons of turnarounds in the middle of the night. Now the wing cracks have our only viable reprieve on hold indefinitely.
From my chair, anyone joining this company should just flat out refuse the airbus and hold out for a 777 slot. EK needs the pilots so I think they’ll offer them the T7 instead.
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Totally agree with MC. Do not come to EK on the mini Bus. It will kill you. A slow death but it will still kill you.
Just because you are flying Low Cost in europe it really isnt any better in the sand. Demand the B777. You will be sorry if you accept the Bus
Just because you are flying Low Cost in europe it really isnt any better in the sand. Demand the B777. You will be sorry if you accept the Bus
Yes, that's great for those who have the option to choose and 'hold out' for a 777 job... some do not. So, the choice is theirs and it's great that (some of) the posters here are trying to give a more accurate picture than the glossy PR would have you believe.
I just really don't get the hostility that comes when people get talking about fleets- some have had no choice but to take the job they are offered even if it might not be what they hoped for- they've made the best out of what they've been given and suddenly the label 'management stooge' starts doing the rounds. Believe it or nto some people are actually happy with their lot in life because it doesn't do your health any favours to dwell otherwise... instead of bagging their choice why can't we recognise that for some it might have been a very hard decision and quite disappointing if they wanted something else...?
/Thread creep over
For those predicting 'dooooooooooom!' to the 380 I think the company will do whatever they can to make it work, what exactly that is of course remains to be seen... though I agree with the comment on the other thread, the Beluga is hardly 'dead'....
I just really don't get the hostility that comes when people get talking about fleets- some have had no choice but to take the job they are offered even if it might not be what they hoped for- they've made the best out of what they've been given and suddenly the label 'management stooge' starts doing the rounds. Believe it or nto some people are actually happy with their lot in life because it doesn't do your health any favours to dwell otherwise... instead of bagging their choice why can't we recognise that for some it might have been a very hard decision and quite disappointing if they wanted something else...?
/Thread creep over
For those predicting 'dooooooooooom!' to the 380 I think the company will do whatever they can to make it work, what exactly that is of course remains to be seen... though I agree with the comment on the other thread, the Beluga is hardly 'dead'....
Last edited by givemewings; 29th May 2012 at 23:02. Reason: woeful typos
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What about your health and favors flying so many hours on the back side of the clock? How is that going to work out for your long term health? Plus with living in the sand we are not going to make age 65.
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Dear Magic Carpet,
As I am obviously not thinking clearly, could you explain why pilots have been getting e mails today for 380 courses starting in July? Even if they get cancelled again, as of today the manpower department think there is a requirement for more pilots on the A380. They must base that on something?
The point I was making on the LAX thread was that if no more deliveries were coming and 11 380's were going back to Airbus, why would we be training more pilots. We're not exactly undercrewed!
With regard to the 380 cabin crew being retrained, rather than costing the company thousands, I suspect it will save them money in the long run in reduced recruitment. All the crew being retrained have flown the T7 before. They will just have a refresher course. They have been advised that their primary role will still be operating the 380. The worry from their side of course is that they will be cover to operate the night turns and not any ULR flights.
As I am obviously not thinking clearly, could you explain why pilots have been getting e mails today for 380 courses starting in July? Even if they get cancelled again, as of today the manpower department think there is a requirement for more pilots on the A380. They must base that on something?
The point I was making on the LAX thread was that if no more deliveries were coming and 11 380's were going back to Airbus, why would we be training more pilots. We're not exactly undercrewed!
With regard to the 380 cabin crew being retrained, rather than costing the company thousands, I suspect it will save them money in the long run in reduced recruitment. All the crew being retrained have flown the T7 before. They will just have a refresher course. They have been advised that their primary role will still be operating the 380. The worry from their side of course is that they will be cover to operate the night turns and not any ULR flights.
Oh, pass me the popcorn!!! 
You seriously fell for that?!
Whatever you guys like to think, it can't be denied that a majority (sure, not all) of pax are very disappointed when told their plane was switched out from 380 to777. Arguing here aside, the pax do and will continue to love the A380 on the long flights. I've had comments to the effect that if EK get rid of the J class bar they are never flying with EK again (can't blame them really, must be awful to go back to 'normal' J class
)
You seriously fell for that?!
Whatever you guys like to think, it can't be denied that a majority (sure, not all) of pax are very disappointed when told their plane was switched out from 380 to777. Arguing here aside, the pax do and will continue to love the A380 on the long flights. I've had comments to the effect that if EK get rid of the J class bar they are never flying with EK again (can't blame them really, must be awful to go back to 'normal' J class
)
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None if you are a 340 qualified f.o. No joke, I can confirm this as I am affected 
Funny, my entire roster is 330 flying this month. As our friends on the ramp would say "What to do" At least courses are, as of today, running in July. Its a step in the right direction. By the way, in the mine is better than yours discussion, WHO CARES!!! I would rather fly (passenger) on either the 777 or 380 compared the 330/340. Let EK decided how much money each makes for them!
Funny, my entire roster is 330 flying this month. As our friends on the ramp would say "What to do" At least courses are, as of today, running in July. Its a step in the right direction. By the way, in the mine is better than yours discussion, WHO CARES!!! I would rather fly (passenger) on either the 777 or 380 compared the 330/340. Let EK decided how much money each makes for them!
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But EK, after all the four high-level 777 Capts failed the A380 transition send them back to fly their John Deere. In any other airline that would have been it.
Luckily MM is trying to improve things and is already making great progress.