NZ X man

Fat Clemenza

I think you have gotten a bit off subject, which it seems a lot of people have in relationship to PJ. There is enough info on this and other web sites, that anybody who would entertain the idea of signing up with PJ would have enough information to make their OWN DECISION about the company. I knew they were having problems when I did a short contract this yea,r for PJ. but I wanted to see it first hand. There are guys who are perhaps trying to make the best of what they have with PJ, whilst they look for something better, and I have to applaud this gesture. PJ is not easy to work for, and the owners and some management staff are to blame for this.

CHeers

EX TERMINATOR

Dear KC130DESERTFLYER, Fat Clemenza and the rest,
I do agree that there is a drift from the core issue, being the truth about PJ and what the existing employment conditions are like there. After all, our aim is to let the truth be known to those who do not know it or perhaps know a part of it. This is only fair whether it is for the purpose of those attempting to work for PJ, or those still being cheated by the management. I happen to personally know Fat Clemenza and KC130Desretflyer. Both are typical foreign employees who have been seeking better opporunities for themselves, and in pusuing this they have both been working hard. It is OK to have different points of view, and even argue, but I hate to lose any of them in the pursuit of the main course of our core issue. You both have valuable information. Please. let us use it to save the rest. It is for valuable inputs in this forum that we have succeeded in seeing less of the low class comments and misleading information by the Deeb's. Haven't you noticed that Faris Deeb (DUBAI981) and his middle brother Ihsan Deeb have been made speechless and been swallowing their tongues for quite sometime? Truth must have been rather painful for them. This, together with the fact that they had no arguments or points to use in order to defend their collapsing empire, made others advise them not to show themselves up by trying to respond to the numerous well delivered inputs by professionals and caring individuals.
I do hope that the individual, who is still seeking information as he contemplates joining PJ, will read the various relevant threads carefully and do his research well before making any decision.
Finally, I do agree with Fat Clemenza that the "White Knight" would only be able to save this company by getting rid of the Deeb's. Then, and only then would there be hope for a better future for the decent and honest employees who deserve better chances.
Finally, honesty and decency shall live and prevail even if after a long struggle with the evil.

hptcc

The fact of the matter is that the aircraft are still flying and indeed the employees are still getting paid albeit a few weeks late. Lets take a look at the facts - PJ is still the biggest operator in the Middle East. Fact is that they have not laid off any staff (something they could do with a drop of a hat as there is a lot of 'dead wood' in the company). Fact is that they are restructuring. Fact is that they do look after the loyal ones who have stayed with them through these desperare times. Fact is that there will always be disgrunteted staff who dont have the balls to voice their opinion to senior management, but rather take the cowardly act of sounding really macho on a public forum - wimps. Quite simply if you dont like it at PJ then leave! You will not be missed. To the defence of senior management they, just like the rest of us, are trying to push the airline through a pretty bitter economic downturn - they/we will march on regardless.....watch this space. To those bitter sweet critiques - big brother is watching. If you dont like it here then FOXTROT OSCAR...!!!

TRITAR500

AOc renew on hold! no aircrafts cannot fly, company on hold

EX TERMINATOR

This is a bit surprising!! I wonder why the "WASTA" is not working this time! or may be it will, to save the Deebs just one more time yet!!

v1abort

pj is basically the same as any other operator in the gulf. just bigger and draws more attention.
where do you work that will run to your plane and fix any problem when you are out of base or near a mx center. depending on what equipment you fly there probably isn't a mx center available anywhere close. why gnd a perfectly flyable plane so everyone can do some paperwork.
this is on demand corporate aviation and the goal is to get the pax where they want to go. and this is the ME forum so if you have worked here for any length of time you will know things don't work the same as other regions. it doesn't make it right but its a fact. and all us expats are here at our own doing for our own reasons.
i worked there and yes it wasn't the smoothest operation at times but i got all the money they owed me. had all my permits and airline tickets home for time off. and never had a gun to my head to do anything unsafe or illigal. any competant pilot will do what is safe and right.
if the authorities don't enforce the rules then i am sure any operator will exploit to the fullest to keep flying and making money. times are tough (Dubai?).
sorry if things didn't work out for some of you at PJ but like it has been said on the thread - if you don't like it then stay away. look to the local authorities to do the needful. beyond that have faith that the pilot group will fly responsibly. realistically what more can we do?

EX TERMINATOR

Dear V1 ABORT,
You have written "this is on demand corporate aviation and the goal is to get the pax where they want to go" I would add: "safely" which I am sure you consider as a given rule so it goes without saying! But the fact of the matter is that even the best pilots at PJ would never find out the real truth about what the maintenance crew had been up to. It is only natural for a pilot to report defects upon arrival to the maintenance crew. Beyond this point, all what the flight crew would be interested in, is to see their plane "ready" and "clear" to fly. The details of what has been going on in the hanagar or on the ramp (even at the home base) should be a cause of utmost concern (eg: Unqualified, and unauthorized maint. personnel with no type rating trying to fix flight control defects). Yet this is one area of concern regarding the safety violations. There are lots of other real examples. The whole point is that the senior management is aware of these safety violations, and it has not been a real issue to be concerned about like timeliness for instance, where the Deebs (senior management) treated as a top priority issue.
What remains is for us is to hope that things would improve somehow so that your flying is safe!

hptcc

Dear Ex-Terminator, I have had a good look through the previous pages in this thread and it now seems painfully obvious to me that your vendeta is against the top management of the company and the only you can get them back is by attacking the company in which ever way you can. OK so what if PJ did get their AOC by way of the 'wasta', so what, who cares. I have worked around the world and I have seen AOC's granted to Operators because of bribes, because of friends who are in high places, because the applicant shaggeg the decision maker in the relevant CAA. This is no different than having the 'wasta'. Now on your heartfelt subject of maintenance - it is inherant in the Coperate Jet industry worldwide for maintenance practices and procedures to be stretched to the limits. The fact is that PJ do indeed send their aircraft to very very reputable maintenance providers in Europe (UK, Germany, France etc etc) for their scheduled checks. If any kind of one-off approval is required than the local authorities have been more than helpful, not because of the 'wasta' as you like to believe but because they (the authorities) are genuinelly trying to help us. From what I can gather you do seem to be a bitter, disgrunteled employee who either has a current problem with the top management or once did.

NZ X man

Hay what ever happened to Tayar? Dry up and blow away?

v1abort

EX - point well taken and yes the safety part goes without saying. personally for me if there was something more than a cabin defect i would insist the plane be taken to the service center or call an AOG. true, easier said than done. while i was there i never had a hard break that pj techs could get their hands on. and yes, i did see some crafty paperwork, but nothing that was too scary. fixing mistakes and what not.
guess there is no simple solution other than spend the money to fix the planes correctly. maybe if they didn't low ball the competition they would have more cash to spend.
at the end of the day if you don't like the mx then don't go. it will mean a rash of , but maybe they will get a clue.
between a rock in a hard place. damned if you do and damned if you dont.

but i do have to say, PJ isn't the only one pulling this . but again they are bigger and more people are watching.
good luck with it, i have faith that the good people that are there can eventually make some changes for the better....maybe

EX TERMINATOR

hptcc,
I am sorry, but I am not going to be dragged into a path of personal issues. Let's concentrate on facts as I have always been doing. But it is very interesting to find someone accept/condone "Wasta" so openly in this industry in particular with the very critical margin of safety!! It is OK to try defending the senior management for some reason or another, but I advise you not to get confused between what is acceptable and what is not, or indeed what is right and what is wrong. It is also OK for authorities to try and help an operator. This is RIGHT. But it is not OK for them to turn black to white or vice versa. This is WASTA. It is WRONG!!

AEUENG

It is rumoured locally in abu Dhabi that PJ has lost it's AOC. Does anyone have any further information to confirm this? It came from a reliable source but not from within PJ.

Fat Clemenza

It HAS been revoked, it's a secret to one.

asdf1234

Which AOC has been revoked? They have more than one. Faris Deeb talked recently abut their European AOC via Flylink and their Qatar AOC (number 003!). I assume if they lose one they can still use the others?

Hate to bang on about it but what happened to the "white knight"? Is anyone prepared to say if talks are ongoing with an outside investor? If the guys on the inside don't know about this then it seems that the rumour is unfounded and maybe PJ will go to the wall. Shame but at least this thread will give a warning before wages go unpaid again.

Fat Clemenza

They lost their UAE AOC and only got 1 CJ3 on the Qatari one. As for the spanish one, I won't speculate much but how useful would it be if the company has not even enough cash to pay its pilots, let along its suppliers...

EX TERMINATOR

People from within are talking about "something really bad" going on. They do not know exactly what it is, but they called it "disastrous". There were serious incidents in the past that happened (eg. when 3-4 managers including one of the Deebs were jailed because of smuggling people, money and substances into the UAE in April 2008 on board one of their aircraft) but the management succeeded then in keeping the details unknown to most of the employees. They will surely do their best this time to hide the news from as many people as possible. Still, the truth will come out sooner or later!!

asdf1234

Monsiuer HPTCC,

Not true, surely?

You were defending your employer and I think for good reason - can you dispel the AOC rumour or is it true?

EX TERMINATOR

Dear ASDF1234,
If it is true.. then my only explanation is that the White Knight lost his way in a Dark Night and never made it to PJ!!

EX TERMINATOR

Somebody closely following Dubai's current real estate crisis sent me a PM. He/she said that well informed sources reported that the owner of PJ has for quite sometime been focusing on his real estate business in Dubai which has naturally been affected by the current crisis. This answered the questions that many of us had as to the reason why the owner had not intervened efficiently in an attempt to take a remedial action on his ailing aviation business (PJ) with its uneducated, inexperienced, unethical and corrupt management team. So the owner must have re directed the White Knight's course to his businesses in Dubai as a matter of priority. From the looks of it, a whole Chivalry of white knights would be needed with no guarantees that this would make any difference!!

hptcc

Oh Ex-Terminator, yee of little faith...a journey of a 1000 miles usually starts with a few stumbles, the odd blood nose and of course a few broken bones not to doubt a few wrong turns and the necessity for a compass swing to re-allign the IRS's - this is basically PJ. Indeed they are in need of a premature D-Check to remove all of the corrosion in their system, replenish their oil (as the engines are almost dry!!), conduct a 3-shot-plot to get rid of that nasty vibration, administer a full avionics upgrade and calibrate the heading needle as its currently clearly not pointing in the right direction. Hopefully after that you will see the new streamlined, shiny, glorious, prestegious, dont f**k with me, super aerodynamic, stealth VVIP Aircraft Operator that the Company should actually be. Let's just hope and pray that soon money gets spent wisely not woefully, decisions get made smartly not stupidly, managers listen to the right people and not trust the wrong ones and finally the PJ Top Management act Professionally not Pathetically. VIVA PRESTIGE JET