Turkish Airlines - THY Recruitment (Merged)
Join Date: Jul 2014
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I just wonder with all the recruitment going on everywhere how can't you find another job dear Lolo. Emirates Qatar Etihad Ryanair Easy Jet and many other operators are looking for pilots..desperately.
If you compare the package of other ME operator THY does not really seems to be in anyway attractive.
Gulf Airline X VS Turkish Airlines
Salary 8000 USD VS 6000 USD
Benefits Housing, Education End of service VS NIL
Leave 42 VS 20
Upgrade Seniority from day 1 VS playing games
Commute business VS no commute economy
block days off
Rostering acceptable to good VS disaster on NB getting such on WB
I think the point is THY is not a an Airline for expatriate. The "ideology" behind make it just a short time stepping stone to somewhere else. On the other end they send email asking pilot to tell their friends to join. I really don't think so.
If you compare the package of other ME operator THY does not really seems to be in anyway attractive.
Gulf Airline X VS Turkish Airlines
Salary 8000 USD VS 6000 USD
Benefits Housing, Education End of service VS NIL
Leave 42 VS 20
Upgrade Seniority from day 1 VS playing games
Commute business VS no commute economy
block days off
Rostering acceptable to good VS disaster on NB getting such on WB
I think the point is THY is not a an Airline for expatriate. The "ideology" behind make it just a short time stepping stone to somewhere else. On the other end they send email asking pilot to tell their friends to join. I really don't think so.
My priority now is to find a job the closest as possible from my home. So I even didnt try to attempt the gulf sisters. Moreover the upgrade time is hazardous as far as I heard. Nobody has the same answer at this question.
Remaining the companies in Europe. At the moment only the lowcost are a good deal if I consider the compromise between europe location and upgrade time. I am at the stage that I dont card the salary anymore. The quality of life is much more important.
And finally, I didnt say that I couldn't find anything. I am indeed in the pool for 2 companies.
so wait and see. If it doesnt work I will stay in THY.
Last edited by Lolo75020; 31st Oct 2018 at 13:03.
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I think the point isTHY is not a an Airline for expatriate. The "ideology" behind make it just a short time stepping stone to somewhere else. On the other end they send email asking pilot to tell their friends to join. I really don't think so.
Last edited by ExDubai; 20th Nov 2015 at 09:01.
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Am I right in thinking expats are much cheaper than locals to the company, because Turkish companies pay the same NET (after tax) pay to both expats and locals -
BUT the TAX they pay on behalf of the local pilot is much much higher (about 5%-10% for the expat, 30-40% for the local)? - So the GROSS cost of the local is much higher.
In most countries, pilots are paid the same GROSS salary, (not the same Net salary). If Turkish paid the same gross pay to expats, as they do to locals, it would be more competitive. It is disingenuous of the locals to complain that expats get a better deal, because the opposite is true - In reality the expat's pre-tax pay is far lower.
As an retiring expat, just try and claim your Turkish state pension for example, and see how far you get!
BUT the TAX they pay on behalf of the local pilot is much much higher (about 5%-10% for the expat, 30-40% for the local)? - So the GROSS cost of the local is much higher.
In most countries, pilots are paid the same GROSS salary, (not the same Net salary). If Turkish paid the same gross pay to expats, as they do to locals, it would be more competitive. It is disingenuous of the locals to complain that expats get a better deal, because the opposite is true - In reality the expat's pre-tax pay is far lower.
As an retiring expat, just try and claim your Turkish state pension for example, and see how far you get!
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lol. If the CEO had asked me for lunch and given me the chance to say what is wrong I think I could have thought of a few much more serious issues than not commuting in business. I may have told him to work his model plane up his ass at the same time. When I was in the process of being dismissed and they would not give me a reason or respond to me, out of desperation I emailed him to try get an answer but he did not respond either, just like all the other managers I emailed and tried to see. I think it must be their policy to not communicate. To make matters worse they now want me to pay €9000 for training costs after I already paid nearly €25000 getting myself rated on type. The few sim sessions I had with them were conducted by some 70 year old guy that had never even flown B777 and he did not even know their latest procedures. Still no reason why my contract was terminated and good luck to them getting a cent out of me.
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But the money the company pays to the government is much higher on behalf of the local (~35%), than for the expat (~5%)
Reclaiming your pension fund is a pretty easy thing to pull off. If you've worked for a couple of years in Turkey, you might be able to reclaim quite a nice little sum of money.
And for the people crying for an upgrade on a flag carrier as if it was something they were entitled to automatically after only a few years in the company, I'm speechless. The market is relatively good at the moment for experienced pilots and will by the looks of it turn down soon. Vote with your feet or be a man and suck it up.
It's business after all and not about babypowdering bums just because you have a license. Remember that a teacher, engineer, doctor, technician, crew planner etc in Turkey typically makes less than 15-20% of what a first officer at THY makes. The business ticket is something that the union managed to get through against the will of the management.
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TypeIV..I think there is an underlying misunderstanding.
THY should have offered a deal the like of Korean a temporary contract clearly stating that there was no upgrade options for FO but paying a substantially higher salary and offering the same Koran perks ( hotel, commuting etc). Up to the market to accept it or not.They did not. Now if you offer me a local contract I deserve the same opportunity and If you hired me "permanently" without a degree you cannot ask for one for upgrade or I might think you are just playing around to save some cash. Nobody I think is crying for the upgrade itself.. but when you see others upgrading junior to you than you are entitled to be rightfully pissed off. You see air force guy bypassing everybody upgrading after two years. This is crazy. Even American Airlines ex air force pilots join a common seniority and wait 15 years to become captains Flying a modern commercial airlines has nothing to do with guts, but more with common sense, critical attitude CRM, language and technical skills which are often an oxymoron of military mentality ( and may be even more in Turkey) which is more blind obedience, guts, mission oriented and viewed with some form of ideological imprinting. The results are evident but nothing has changed so far.
Furthermore I don't really think anybody cares what the salaries of other profession are in Turkey as we tend to look at other airlines to compare our treatment not to the social dynamics of Turkey which are not really of our interest.
THY should have offered a deal the like of Korean a temporary contract clearly stating that there was no upgrade options for FO but paying a substantially higher salary and offering the same Koran perks ( hotel, commuting etc). Up to the market to accept it or not.They did not. Now if you offer me a local contract I deserve the same opportunity and If you hired me "permanently" without a degree you cannot ask for one for upgrade or I might think you are just playing around to save some cash. Nobody I think is crying for the upgrade itself.. but when you see others upgrading junior to you than you are entitled to be rightfully pissed off. You see air force guy bypassing everybody upgrading after two years. This is crazy. Even American Airlines ex air force pilots join a common seniority and wait 15 years to become captains Flying a modern commercial airlines has nothing to do with guts, but more with common sense, critical attitude CRM, language and technical skills which are often an oxymoron of military mentality ( and may be even more in Turkey) which is more blind obedience, guts, mission oriented and viewed with some form of ideological imprinting. The results are evident but nothing has changed so far.
Furthermore I don't really think anybody cares what the salaries of other profession are in Turkey as we tend to look at other airlines to compare our treatment not to the social dynamics of Turkey which are not really of our interest.
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It has been obvious since the beginning that the recruitment of expats only is a quick fix. The CEO has publicly apologized for having to recruit yobancis and said that he is forced to do so due to demand and inabilty to find locals. Some agencies have made some promises, but if you are able to get the big picture (which is essential for a leader, like a captain) you knew from day one that an upgrade most probably wouldn't be a reality unless miracles happen.
The locals are in Turkish for a long term career while we yobancis use it as a stepping stone to put food on the table and to see our families three days a month, not caring about what is happening in the country as you say.
Therefor I understand that they rather invest in their locals when possible rather than investing in someone who won't be seen once the 1500 hours are in the book, or once the market in their home country picks up.
With the CRM and culture, I do agree but with the newer generation, I feel that there's an overall change taking place towards more modern and sensible attitudes.
My point is that: Even though we might see it as unfair, the rules were very clear before joining and we'll have to vote with our feet or suck it up. As I mentioned, an FO in THY makes five times of what hard working academics do, for this reason whining and moaning won't gain any sympathy.
The locals are in Turkish for a long term career while we yobancis use it as a stepping stone to put food on the table and to see our families three days a month, not caring about what is happening in the country as you say.
Therefor I understand that they rather invest in their locals when possible rather than investing in someone who won't be seen once the 1500 hours are in the book, or once the market in their home country picks up.
With the CRM and culture, I do agree but with the newer generation, I feel that there's an overall change taking place towards more modern and sensible attitudes.
My point is that: Even though we might see it as unfair, the rules were very clear before joining and we'll have to vote with our feet or suck it up. As I mentioned, an FO in THY makes five times of what hard working academics do, for this reason whining and moaning won't gain any sympathy.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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It has been obvious since the beginning that the recruitment of expats only is a quick fix. The CEO has publicly apologized for having to recruit yobancis and said that he is forced to do so due to demand and inabilty to find locals. Some agencies have made some promises, but if you are able to get the big picture (which is essential for a leader, like a captain) you knew from day one that an upgrade most probably wouldn't be a reality unless miracles happen.
The locals are in Turkish for a long term career while we yobancis use it as a stepping stone to put food on the table and to see our families three days a month, not caring about what is happening in the country as you say.
Therefor I understand that they rather invest in their locals when possible rather than investing in someone who won't be seen once the 1500 hours are in the book, or once the market in their home country picks up.
With the CRM and culture, I do agree but with the newer generation, I feel that there's an overall change taking place towards more modern and sensible attitudes.
My point is that: Even though we might see it as unfair, the rules were very clear before joining and we'll have to vote with our feet or suck it up. As I mentioned, an FO in THY makes five times of what hard working academics do, for this reason whining and moaning won't gain any sympathy.
The locals are in Turkish for a long term career while we yobancis use it as a stepping stone to put food on the table and to see our families three days a month, not caring about what is happening in the country as you say.
Therefor I understand that they rather invest in their locals when possible rather than investing in someone who won't be seen once the 1500 hours are in the book, or once the market in their home country picks up.
With the CRM and culture, I do agree but with the newer generation, I feel that there's an overall change taking place towards more modern and sensible attitudes.
My point is that: Even though we might see it as unfair, the rules were very clear before joining and we'll have to vote with our feet or suck it up. As I mentioned, an FO in THY makes five times of what hard working academics do, for this reason whining and moaning won't gain any sympathy.
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I did a interview once with them, must be 2 years ago. Did not like it an refused.
Got recently an email from some Muhammed(seriously) to send them again an application.
Prefer to stay in real europe. There is no way me moving down(again).
BUT - for anyone who cares, they "streamlined" the recruiting process now(at least the email says that).
Before it was longer, now it is down to 3 days:
Day1: Welcome Briefing, Group Assessment(i am soooo tired of this BS), ICAO English Assessment, Document Check and Sim Brief(good, they changed that now, the old Sim Brief was crap and was more or less - ok, lets fly)
Day2: Sim, Panel Interview
Day3: Medical
Good Luck! If you are single or do not plan to bring the family(from Europe, from somewhere else it might be maybe an upgrade, don't know) it might be ok.
Got recently an email from some Muhammed(seriously) to send them again an application.
Prefer to stay in real europe. There is no way me moving down(again).
BUT - for anyone who cares, they "streamlined" the recruiting process now(at least the email says that).
Before it was longer, now it is down to 3 days:
Day1: Welcome Briefing, Group Assessment(i am soooo tired of this BS), ICAO English Assessment, Document Check and Sim Brief(good, they changed that now, the old Sim Brief was crap and was more or less - ok, lets fly)
Day2: Sim, Panel Interview
Day3: Medical
Good Luck! If you are single or do not plan to bring the family(from Europe, from somewhere else it might be maybe an upgrade, don't know) it might be ok.
Just to throw a little more oil on the kebab, word is coming through (employment agencies) that there is a total ban by the Chinese government on employment of any pilot (foreign or Turkish) currently flying with any Turkish airline. Air China , China Southern, China Eastern ect. will be off limits to any pilot wanting to get out of Turkey and work in China. No idea what has triggered this or how it can be resolved?
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Fluke, correct.
Makes no sense at all, but must be Politics at the upper level. Turkish Airlines must be happy that they'll never lose any pilots to any high paying jobs in China!
Makes no sense at all, but must be Politics at the upper level. Turkish Airlines must be happy that they'll never lose any pilots to any high paying jobs in China!
Join Date: Mar 2010
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pilot recruitment rules
I think Turkish Airlines has renewed its pilot recruitment rules.They made a newannouncement for captains and first officers
THY KOKPİTTE YENİ KRİTERLER
Turkish Airlines - Announcement - turkishairlines.com
THY KOKPİTTE YENİ KRİTERLER
Turkish Airlines - Announcement - turkishairlines.com
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Capt..2019 to be fully compliant but it will happen gradually. EASA license was already a requirement before and in fact they terminated people for not having one few years ago. Than they dropped it for lack of applicants but soon to will back in force