Ayla Aaa Jordan
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PPRuNe is a rumours network, and may be misused by people with an axe to grind
Allot of your students & employees had high hopes for Ayla Aviation. It was an exciting time for all to be involved in a new project with squeaky clean aircraft and facilities. However over time, the cracks began the show and there was a slow and noticeable disintegration of the way things were being done.
It was the human element that started letting the school down, more specifically it's Management. Your employees & students naturally have vested interest in how well the school performs, and when things go wrong, we offered constructive feedback with the hope that you'd take that onboard and make positive changes out of it.
Everybody from students to instructors have questioned your suitability to the job of running an FTO. You used to run an investment firm in Texas then jumped straight into the deep end with running an FTO to which you bring no previous operational background or experience to the table. Your not an ex-airline pilot, you've never run an FTO before, your not ex-RAF pilot, and your not an ex-flight instructor. Your an industry outsider by all accounts!
Your a self proclaimed private pilot running a "commercial" flight school. That means you have never been a customer of your own product.
It's no secret that Ayla Aviation is a sinking ship and allot of people think there is only one way to save it. The day you take a back seat role, and the words 'Under New Management' are proudly displayed on your main website will be the day that people will take new found interest in Ayla Aviation.
PS. Everything from your directors compensation with NEST, to the thousands of dollars you donated to George Bush's campaign, to your court cases in Texas is public information!
Last edited by Mike.Park; 29th Dec 2008 at 16:09.
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Thank you all for your feedback.
As I said, I would like to keep this objective and not get drawn into an argument.
Indeed, many mistakes were made along the way, which is quite normal for a new business. One of our mistakes was the choice of aircraft, but we fixed that very quickly. We also took some wrong hiring decisions, and relied on people that could not deliver. Again, I take the blame as CEO. However, we learnt from those mistakes, and corrected them, and I can proudly say we have an extremely capable and dedicated team of ground and flight instructors at the academy. Anyone who wishes to see their bios can contact me by e-mail and I will be happy to share them.
One minor correction – it is true that Ayla is only two years old (young), but AFT has been in business over 10 years.
With regards to my aviation background, I do not believe you need to be a commercial pilot to run a flight school, just like you don’t need to be a pilot to run an airline. In fact, I find my being an outsider a positive. Needless to say, if anyone knows anyone that is more capable, please submit their resume. I assure you I would be delighted to hand over some of my work load.
With regards to my track record, I ran an investment company in Houston for 15 years. We bought and sold companies, one of which I ran myself, and some of which we still own. Like most people in business, lawsuits are inevitable, and we have had our share; some as plaintiffs, and some as defendants. As correctly pointed out, this is public information, and nothing to be ashamed off. To the best of my knowledge, there are no current pending cases.
I did donate to the George Bush campaign some years ago, and I donated to the Barack Obama campaign recently. I am a US citizen, and I consider it a privilege to be able to contribute and to vote.
Back to Ayla. We are very proud of our track record, albeit only two years old. We are proud to have Royal Jordanian as a customer. We are proud of being approved by Gulf Air, and Oman Air (Bridge Course only for Oman Air – abinitio program still pending). We are proud to have arranged and hosted the first MPL conference in the region, and to have phase I of our MPL program approved.
We have some bold plans for 2009, and I am confident that we will achieve them with our team of dedicated instructors and staff.
Marwan
As I said, I would like to keep this objective and not get drawn into an argument.
Indeed, many mistakes were made along the way, which is quite normal for a new business. One of our mistakes was the choice of aircraft, but we fixed that very quickly. We also took some wrong hiring decisions, and relied on people that could not deliver. Again, I take the blame as CEO. However, we learnt from those mistakes, and corrected them, and I can proudly say we have an extremely capable and dedicated team of ground and flight instructors at the academy. Anyone who wishes to see their bios can contact me by e-mail and I will be happy to share them.
One minor correction – it is true that Ayla is only two years old (young), but AFT has been in business over 10 years.
With regards to my aviation background, I do not believe you need to be a commercial pilot to run a flight school, just like you don’t need to be a pilot to run an airline. In fact, I find my being an outsider a positive. Needless to say, if anyone knows anyone that is more capable, please submit their resume. I assure you I would be delighted to hand over some of my work load.
With regards to my track record, I ran an investment company in Houston for 15 years. We bought and sold companies, one of which I ran myself, and some of which we still own. Like most people in business, lawsuits are inevitable, and we have had our share; some as plaintiffs, and some as defendants. As correctly pointed out, this is public information, and nothing to be ashamed off. To the best of my knowledge, there are no current pending cases.
I did donate to the George Bush campaign some years ago, and I donated to the Barack Obama campaign recently. I am a US citizen, and I consider it a privilege to be able to contribute and to vote.
Back to Ayla. We are very proud of our track record, albeit only two years old. We are proud to have Royal Jordanian as a customer. We are proud of being approved by Gulf Air, and Oman Air (Bridge Course only for Oman Air – abinitio program still pending). We are proud to have arranged and hosted the first MPL conference in the region, and to have phase I of our MPL program approved.
We have some bold plans for 2009, and I am confident that we will achieve them with our team of dedicated instructors and staff.
Marwan
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We also took some wrong hiring decisions, and relied on people that could not deliver
hmm..I wonder about some really good people that you have let go!
it is true that Ayla is only two years old (young), but AFT has been in business over 10 years.
What's the actual credit that you have gained from AFT?!! you are the one who runs AAA..only!
I do not believe you need to be a commercial pilot to run a flight school
We have some bold plans for 2009
Thank you
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Like most people in business, lawsuits are inevitable, and we have had our share
( i ) Copyright infringement - Did Ayla Aviation acquire permission and pay royalties to Jive Records to use R Kelly's soundtrack on your promotional video?
( ii ) Misrepresentation - Most of the video promotes flight training in an aircraft that Ayla no longer operates.
I smell an incoming cease & desist letter.
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Scorpion,
I see you still have your crayons, any chance of losing the colour as it really distracts from anything you have to say.
It was me who complained about your previous post that was subsequently removed. You do nothing for the case of debate about Ayla Aviation Academy with posts which involve libel and sexual innuendo, in fact it distracts from people taking this thread seriously.
Mr Atalla must be delighted every time you post!
I see you still have your crayons, any chance of losing the colour as it really distracts from anything you have to say.
It was me who complained about your previous post that was subsequently removed. You do nothing for the case of debate about Ayla Aviation Academy with posts which involve libel and sexual innuendo, in fact it distracts from people taking this thread seriously.
Mr Atalla must be delighted every time you post!
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Track Record?
I think Klubman, Gilderoy, Goneeast and I have spoken most eloquently to AAA's track record - see previous posts - and there is no need to reiterate the poor executive decision-making that has led directly to the emotive nature of this forum (nice summary tho' Mike.Park, #341). 
As to the "extremely capable and dedicated team of ground and flight instructors at the academy", one only asks... but for how long?
How long is it before the next macho rush-of-blood initiates the next round of firings of the next group of the purportedly unsuitable? In fact, now being on the receiving side of cv's and requests for advice, I know several members of this team are looking for jobs elsewhere - worry not, I don't blame you and I will not name you!
As to the "extremely capable and dedicated team of ground and flight instructors at the academy", one only asks... but for how long?
How long is it before the next macho rush-of-blood initiates the next round of firings of the next group of the purportedly unsuitable? In fact, now being on the receiving side of cv's and requests for advice, I know several members of this team are looking for jobs elsewhere - worry not, I don't blame you and I will not name you!
Last edited by mafemukh; 30th Dec 2008 at 06:17.
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Mr.Marwan
Mr. Matalla may I now why you are not giving back the 2nd payment to the students who left Ayla with a PPL only ?
You have promised them infront of everybody and your staff and we have the prove and maybe GF that you will not charge them for the extra hours and especially the Conversion hours from DA40 to C172, which was due to your mistake ( as you mentioned ).
1> Why you are charging your students for your mistakes?? ANSWER IT PLS
2> Why you are not returning back their money ?? ANSWER IT PLS
You have promised them infront of everybody and your staff and we have the prove and maybe GF that you will not charge them for the extra hours and especially the Conversion hours from DA40 to C172, which was due to your mistake ( as you mentioned ).
1> Why you are charging your students for your mistakes?? ANSWER IT PLS
2> Why you are not returning back their money ?? ANSWER IT PLS
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mmatalla
How many Flight Instructors, and how many Ground Instructors are currently employed at AAA?
Of those numbers, how many were employed at AAA 12 months ago?
Or, to put it another way, what has been the instructor turnover in 2008?
Thank you.
Of those numbers, how many were employed at AAA 12 months ago?
Or, to put it another way, what has been the instructor turnover in 2008?
Thank you.
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Dear EHBH;
The PPL flying phase is 45 hours. if a cadet takes 50 or 60 then he/she is charged for the difference. I am not sure what you mean by "you are responsible". Our responsibility to to make sure he/she is ready for the PPL check ride, and the Flight Instructor and the CFI decide when a cadet is ready for the check ride, not me. So if a cadet takes longer than the syllabus, then we do charge them for the difference, just like all other FTO's. This is customary and standard practice across the industry.
Obviously, it owuld not be appropriate for me to discuss with you specific financial charges between a particular cadet and the academy without his/her permission. However, if anyone has an issue, please have them contact me or accounting and they will be given a complete and detailed summary of their account. This is their legal right and our obligation.
I hope this helps.
Marwan
The PPL flying phase is 45 hours. if a cadet takes 50 or 60 then he/she is charged for the difference. I am not sure what you mean by "you are responsible". Our responsibility to to make sure he/she is ready for the PPL check ride, and the Flight Instructor and the CFI decide when a cadet is ready for the check ride, not me. So if a cadet takes longer than the syllabus, then we do charge them for the difference, just like all other FTO's. This is customary and standard practice across the industry.
Obviously, it owuld not be appropriate for me to discuss with you specific financial charges between a particular cadet and the academy without his/her permission. However, if anyone has an issue, please have them contact me or accounting and they will be given a complete and detailed summary of their account. This is their legal right and our obligation.
I hope this helps.
Marwan
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Dear klubman;
we have 14 flight instructors and 8 ground instructors. some have been with us for two years, some for a few months.
our turnover is expected and not unusual in this industry, specialy as a relatively new operation that is growing fast and continuously raising it's standards.
Marwan
we have 14 flight instructors and 8 ground instructors. some have been with us for two years, some for a few months.
our turnover is expected and not unusual in this industry, specialy as a relatively new operation that is growing fast and continuously raising it's standards.
Marwan
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Dear SilveR5;
You are absoluetly correct. A good CEO must suround himself with people with solid aviation bakgrounds. I am proud of our CFI and our CGI, as well as every single employee at Ayla.
I cannot share our 2009 plan with you, but keep an eye on the news section of our web site.
Thank you for your other comments but i guess that remains to be seen.
Marwan
You are absoluetly correct. A good CEO must suround himself with people with solid aviation bakgrounds. I am proud of our CFI and our CGI, as well as every single employee at Ayla.
I cannot share our 2009 plan with you, but keep an eye on the news section of our web site.
Thank you for your other comments but i guess that remains to be seen.
Marwan
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mmatalla,
You do not seem to have answered Klubmans question in full about turnover of staff. How do you know what the industry norm is, is there some published data on this you would care to share?
Also EHBH raises the issue of extra hours flown by the student due to you having to change fleet, surely you allowed some hours at Ayla's expense for this.
You promised some data on how many non sponsored students have gained employment, any update?
You do not seem to have answered Klubmans question in full about turnover of staff. How do you know what the industry norm is, is there some published data on this you would care to share?
Also EHBH raises the issue of extra hours flown by the student due to you having to change fleet, surely you allowed some hours at Ayla's expense for this.
You promised some data on how many non sponsored students have gained employment, any update?
Last edited by Ayla; 30th Dec 2008 at 15:47.
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Thank you, Ayla.
Some clarification please, mmatalla. A simple question. Of the 14 Flight Instructors and 8 Ground Instructors, how many have been employed at AAA for less than 12 months?
Some clarification please, mmatalla. A simple question. Of the 14 Flight Instructors and 8 Ground Instructors, how many have been employed at AAA for less than 12 months?
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!!!!!
matalla doesn’t have answer for my questions too.
To all wannabe pilots who might plan to join Ayla,
You will be currently trained on C172, if the management decides to change the fleet all the sudden, don't be happy, because you will be charged 1000z of $.
MARWAN don't forget what you said '' we never asked anyone to pay for the conversions hours ''
Guys that’s how Ayla makes money!!!!
: Charging the cadets the conversion and extra hours caused by managerial level mistakes.
Charging the cadets huge and massive amounts of fake electricity bills.
Charging the cadets for having a cup of tea or coffee
Imagine you pay 100 000 $ and they charge you for coffee.
Anyway Mr., We will contact Accounts and if we face anything negative or different than what you said here in the forum ( as usual )
We will go to the locations you've visited in Bahrain and show them all what we have. ( THink ) will they beleive YOU the stranger the businessman who's after a complete profit, or US their relatives!!
Don't play with fire it might burn you.
Believe that everything is documented.
A successful manager should try his /her best to gain his customers and not to make them enemies.
BTW to all posters and viewers all information mentioned in this thread regarding AYLA are 100% correct, Info are obtained from Staff, Cadets Current and Ex.
Marwan I think you know me very well and how factual person I am, I was the 1st guy who left your business, and after 2 weeks 10 cadets left as well, they are my best friends, Now I am in AUS I paid here almost half what I had to pay you, they offered me better package than you too, I am trying my best to convince the remaining E to join my academy, some are leaving soon.
To all wannabe pilots who might plan to join Ayla,
You will be currently trained on C172, if the management decides to change the fleet all the sudden, don't be happy, because you will be charged 1000z of $.
MARWAN don't forget what you said '' we never asked anyone to pay for the conversions hours ''
Guys that’s how Ayla makes money!!!!
: Charging the cadets the conversion and extra hours caused by managerial level mistakes.
Charging the cadets huge and massive amounts of fake electricity bills.
Charging the cadets for having a cup of tea or coffee
Imagine you pay 100 000 $ and they charge you for coffee.
Anyway Mr., We will contact Accounts and if we face anything negative or different than what you said here in the forum ( as usual )
We will go to the locations you've visited in Bahrain and show them all what we have. ( THink ) will they beleive YOU the stranger the businessman who's after a complete profit, or US their relatives!!
Don't play with fire it might burn you.
Believe that everything is documented.
A successful manager should try his /her best to gain his customers and not to make them enemies.
BTW to all posters and viewers all information mentioned in this thread regarding AYLA are 100% correct, Info are obtained from Staff, Cadets Current and Ex.
Marwan I think you know me very well and how factual person I am, I was the 1st guy who left your business, and after 2 weeks 10 cadets left as well, they are my best friends, Now I am in AUS I paid here almost half what I had to pay you, they offered me better package than you too, I am trying my best to convince the remaining E to join my academy, some are leaving soon.
Last edited by EHBH; 30th Dec 2008 at 16:33.
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klubman
klubman
Instructors, Staff and Cadets are leaving on monthly bases
most of them are kicked out.
If you want to contact them, I can provide you with their emails and contact numbers.
Instructors, Staff and Cadets are leaving on monthly bases
most of them are kicked out.
If you want to contact them, I can provide you with their emails and contact numbers.
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While it's question time for mmatalla:
Is it true you have told students you will track down any posters on PPRuNe?
Is it true you claimed you would simply offer us huge amounts of money and would get the information from PPRuNe?
Your answers to these questions are eagerly awaited by all.
Rob
Is it true you have told students you will track down any posters on PPRuNe?
Is it true you claimed you would simply offer us huge amounts of money and would get the information from PPRuNe?
Your answers to these questions are eagerly awaited by all.
Rob
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"But i can assure you they fly more than any other academy in the region due to the fact that we are located in a very quiet airport"
Firstly, welcome to the forums Mr.Atalla after a very long time. I hope that you're doing well.
Regarding the earlier post that I have outlined in red, I would like to comment on it as a statement that is not true. Possibly the news that you got was falsely pledged to you because when I left Ayla I had 62hours in my log book and now I have around 80+ which I have gained in 1 week and 2 days which also includes the extreme heavy traffic.
I would like to congratulate Ebrahime for his decision and his license. How I wish I went to Scotland or wherever.
Regarding the whole Gulf Air approval issue that you have brought up, from which official did you get that information from if I may ask, I would understand if it is calssified information. There is a lot of contradicting from Ayla and Gulf Air's side, each company is saying something else.
Well, I can't add up more to what my buddy Mike has stated earlier in all of his posts
"it is NOT JAA approved, but JAA based which was clearly stated in our marketing material and our web site."
Your marketing people had a lack of communication skills when it came to this issue because a sum of people who did not have a proper background were pulled into believing stuff that were not true. I am pretty sure that this issue is well done from it as your ex-marketing manager is no longer part of AAA.
"except for class delta which was delayed due to a major fleet change"
All of us know that this is not the only reason, Mr. Atallah.
"(something every safe pilot should understand), we do our best to cope, so long as it does not compromise safety or quality of training."
It's comforting that you brought up the safety issue. It's true but we used to have SPLs and we had FI next to us. FIs are qualified to fly planes that operate normally but could suddenly catch a flame but I would really to thank you for what you have done when you made the fleet change decision but what really leaves me in a dilemma is that even after all of that has happened you allowed class Charlie to fly the same planes that suffered from the same problems to fly solo with their PPL only while the FI has a lot more.
"Building issue"
There is no denial in what Mr. Atallah has done for us when we were attacked by 14kids with knives, stones and wrenches at 2:00am + they demloished our colleagues scooter. Mr. Atallah came to us the next day and hired a couple of body guards for us 24hours a day and has allocated us into a new building within 94hours.
"I believe it is a combination of anger and frustration. perhaps some x-employees who are disgruntled, perhaps some x-cadets who were delayed and decided to leave (contrary to their sponsor airlines' advice)"
Your thoughts could be wrong regarding this matter. You know me Mr. Atallah and I was possibly the most quiet person in the Academy and I never used to address much and when I did, I did it in a very brief manner. You even gave me that watch after we've helped you. You were good with me, the academy was good with me and I started to be good with my surrounding environment but after things were not going straight and "transparent", every other person started saying something else. We were not the only ones who got frustrated, you did as well when we came back to Aqaba and you didn't let us get into the hangar and then made people follow us all around and were embarrassed infront of our colleagues. So, you see it is a mutual frustration at SOME point LATER.
"Ayla's moto is "Pilots Empowered", and our basic premise is that we train captains, not just pilots."
Regarding this point I will attach it to the previous point, That's a very nice moto but you didn't treat us as captain nor as pilots when the things started to go rough.
"The PPL flying phase is 45 hours. if a cadet takes 50 or 60 then he/she is charged for the difference. I am not sure what you mean by "you are responsible". Our responsibility to to make sure he/she is ready for the PPL check ride, and the Flight Instructor and the CFI decide when a cadet is ready for the check ride, not me. So if a cadet takes longer than the syllabus, then we do charge them for the difference, just like all other FTO's. This is customary and standard practice across the industry."
Mr. Atallah, I know and you know what the truth is when it comes to Delta. Most of class Delta are capable flyers and most of them were ready for their check-rides after they have done their pre-check such as me and my other colleagues but after a silly managerial decision we were put back to flying solo for at least 15hours and we got back to doing a pre-check all over again. Whose fault is it?.
How many times did our checkride got delayed? We got one amazing reply "all of the hotels are fully booked" since when Aqaba got to be Southern France?
As we were taught once by the best instructor in the academy Mr. Mark Murphy "Once you mess up, you're going to mess up in everything else and as we call it in the aviation industry Chain of Errors". This is what you are suffering from Mr. Atallah, as a fellow human to another human I would suggest that you change everyone in your management and have a new start.
Firstly, welcome to the forums Mr.Atalla after a very long time. I hope that you're doing well.
Regarding the earlier post that I have outlined in red, I would like to comment on it as a statement that is not true. Possibly the news that you got was falsely pledged to you because when I left Ayla I had 62hours in my log book and now I have around 80+ which I have gained in 1 week and 2 days which also includes the extreme heavy traffic.
I would like to congratulate Ebrahime for his decision and his license. How I wish I went to Scotland or wherever.
Regarding the whole Gulf Air approval issue that you have brought up, from which official did you get that information from if I may ask, I would understand if it is calssified information. There is a lot of contradicting from Ayla and Gulf Air's side, each company is saying something else.
Well, I can't add up more to what my buddy Mike has stated earlier in all of his posts
"it is NOT JAA approved, but JAA based which was clearly stated in our marketing material and our web site."
Your marketing people had a lack of communication skills when it came to this issue because a sum of people who did not have a proper background were pulled into believing stuff that were not true. I am pretty sure that this issue is well done from it as your ex-marketing manager is no longer part of AAA.
"except for class delta which was delayed due to a major fleet change"
All of us know that this is not the only reason, Mr. Atallah.
"(something every safe pilot should understand), we do our best to cope, so long as it does not compromise safety or quality of training."
It's comforting that you brought up the safety issue. It's true but we used to have SPLs and we had FI next to us. FIs are qualified to fly planes that operate normally but could suddenly catch a flame but I would really to thank you for what you have done when you made the fleet change decision but what really leaves me in a dilemma is that even after all of that has happened you allowed class Charlie to fly the same planes that suffered from the same problems to fly solo with their PPL only while the FI has a lot more.
"Building issue"
There is no denial in what Mr. Atallah has done for us when we were attacked by 14kids with knives, stones and wrenches at 2:00am + they demloished our colleagues scooter. Mr. Atallah came to us the next day and hired a couple of body guards for us 24hours a day and has allocated us into a new building within 94hours.
"I believe it is a combination of anger and frustration. perhaps some x-employees who are disgruntled, perhaps some x-cadets who were delayed and decided to leave (contrary to their sponsor airlines' advice)"
Your thoughts could be wrong regarding this matter. You know me Mr. Atallah and I was possibly the most quiet person in the Academy and I never used to address much and when I did, I did it in a very brief manner. You even gave me that watch after we've helped you. You were good with me, the academy was good with me and I started to be good with my surrounding environment but after things were not going straight and "transparent", every other person started saying something else. We were not the only ones who got frustrated, you did as well when we came back to Aqaba and you didn't let us get into the hangar and then made people follow us all around and were embarrassed infront of our colleagues. So, you see it is a mutual frustration at SOME point LATER.
"Ayla's moto is "Pilots Empowered", and our basic premise is that we train captains, not just pilots."
Regarding this point I will attach it to the previous point, That's a very nice moto but you didn't treat us as captain nor as pilots when the things started to go rough.
"The PPL flying phase is 45 hours. if a cadet takes 50 or 60 then he/she is charged for the difference. I am not sure what you mean by "you are responsible". Our responsibility to to make sure he/she is ready for the PPL check ride, and the Flight Instructor and the CFI decide when a cadet is ready for the check ride, not me. So if a cadet takes longer than the syllabus, then we do charge them for the difference, just like all other FTO's. This is customary and standard practice across the industry."
Mr. Atallah, I know and you know what the truth is when it comes to Delta. Most of class Delta are capable flyers and most of them were ready for their check-rides after they have done their pre-check such as me and my other colleagues but after a silly managerial decision we were put back to flying solo for at least 15hours and we got back to doing a pre-check all over again. Whose fault is it?.
How many times did our checkride got delayed? We got one amazing reply "all of the hotels are fully booked" since when Aqaba got to be Southern France?
As we were taught once by the best instructor in the academy Mr. Mark Murphy "Once you mess up, you're going to mess up in everything else and as we call it in the aviation industry Chain of Errors". This is what you are suffering from Mr. Atallah, as a fellow human to another human I would suggest that you change everyone in your management and have a new start.
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EHBH - The majority have left the academy, it's only a minority that were kicked out in the academy.
Paying to find IP addresses, hmmm that's quite interesting, it's not nice!! Who gave you that idea?
Paying to find IP addresses, hmmm that's quite interesting, it's not nice!! Who gave you that idea?
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Striker54
Majority of the Staff were kicked out and Minority of the Cadets left as personal decision, I have documented statistics.
Tracking IP addresses: PPRUNE is not AYLA, this is a professional forum moderated by professional people, and that thing will never happen.
Tracking IP addresses: PPRUNE is not AYLA, this is a professional forum moderated by professional people, and that thing will never happen.