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Ayla Aaa Jordan

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Old 30th Dec 2008, 19:13
  #361 (permalink)  
 
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Well said EHBH this is a very professional forum... I used to run a forum once and that sort of stuff never used to happen.

One more advice for Mr. Atallah as you said earlier that you train captains and not pilots. How do you expect to train captains when your SOP does not have any spin exercise as the whole of Jordan.
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Old 30th Dec 2008, 20:47
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My colleague Scorpion777 was a bit overwhelmed with rage, please do excuse him.

Anyhow, there is a student that left the academy with only 22hours and did not initiate his solo flights in other words he did not do his first solo...So, all of his hours are considered as Dual but yet he did not receive a refund of the amount he paid of 18,000USD if not more. Would you like to explain why, Mr. Atallah? and when will the student receive his money back?

Last edited by Striker54; 31st Dec 2008 at 00:33.
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Old 30th Dec 2008, 22:35
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Hogwash

"our turnover is expected and not unusual in this industry, specialy as a relatively new operation that is growing fast and continuously raising it's standards."

I have never heard so much BS in all my born days!!!

"our turnover is expected and not unusual in this industry" - 1 x HT, 2 x CFI, 4 x CGI (1 acting), 2 x QM, 3 x Maint. Mgr and this is just the managers!! I have NEVER heard of turnover anywhere in my 2 decades of aviation training that even comes close to this rate! Please edit the phrase to "our turnover is excessive and unprecedented in this industry"

"specialy as a relatively new operation that is growing fast" - if 14FI's and 8GI's are the sum of the instructional staff, then there has been no real growth in student numbers, certainly if standards are to be at least maintained. The airspace and airport were maxed out when I left, especially with the detachments of aircraft from the Amman schools to Aqaba. Edit "specialy as a relatively new operation that has plateau'ed"

"and continuously raising its standards" - here is, I suspect the biggest misrepresentation of them all. It was my experience that standards were constantly being eroded, when syllabi would be changed without generating the necessary documentation, certification of instructors ignored, teaching limitations viewed as an annoyance. Edit "and continuously sacrificing its standards"

In conclusion:
"our turnover is excessive and unprecedented in this industry, specialy as a relatively new operation that has plateau'ed and continuously sacrificed it's standards."
Yeah, that's about right, the operation is relatively new!

Last edited by mafemukh; 30th Dec 2008 at 22:45.
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Old 31st Dec 2008, 00:42
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Well posted mafemukh.

Here is another extra post regarding the whole excessive change when it comes to the SOP. I went to my check-ride and the examiner told me that all of my speeds for the manuevers were wrong and I gave him my SOP and they were all correct and added up to that I did all of my training on the SOP that I had with my instructor; the funny part is they already changed the SOP AGAIN and no one alerted me regarding that matter. Thankfully, it wasn't my fault that no one told me about the new SOP and I alerted the other students to go collect the new SOPs.
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Old 31st Dec 2008, 06:15
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The collective concerns raised on this Thread about AAA as a ‘fit-for-purpose’ Air Academy should not be addressed to its CEO but to CARC. This aviation regulatory commission certified AAA (AAC No P.S.C. 05) and, as a result, CARC remains duty bound to ensure that AAA operates safely within the scope of its own certification requirements.

However, CARC, in its present form, is not in a position to do so. Just a quick look at its web site will show that it’s riddled with inconsistencies; the Commission attempts to make regulatory references within its own documents that then do not exist. Furthermore, a quick search will show that the mainstay of CARC’s regulations have been ‘cut and pasted’ from FAA regulatory manuals - which become inconclusive in their cross-referencing when CARC attempts to apply these regulations for its own purpose. This is not an unusual practice in Jordan – so, until this is resolved, CARC will remain a commission that has no effective regulatory powers within State.

Not surprising then that when a CARC representative visits one of its certified training establishments to conduct an audit, its certification is not withdrawn when the academy breaches standing regulatory requirements that would normally apply to FAA and JAA approved flight schools. To do so, would expose all of CARC’s shortcomings as a National Aviation Regulatory body.

Once CARC achieves its goal, it will be better placed to audit academies like Ayla, which in turn will serve to realise the expectations of those students who have invested time and money to become commercial pilots.

CARC’S Goal: To achieve world’s best practice in aviation safety, security, environmental, and aviation economic regulation, independently enforcing civil aviation regulations but doing so in ways that are consistent, fair and transparent, and that show flexibility, good judgment and accountability. The CARC additionally aspires to be a leading aviation regulator within the Region.


GF
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Old 31st Dec 2008, 07:00
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Gulf Flyers summation of CARC is spot on, the Regulatory Authorities and Airlines in the Gulf States as well as elsewhere, seem to view it the same way.

The best advice I would give potential students, is to train at an establishment which gives you a licence that is better regarded and with an authority that gives you protection, by regulating flying training establishments properly.

Last edited by Ayla; 31st Dec 2008 at 07:14.
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Old 31st Dec 2008, 14:56
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Greetings all. There are a number of important questions, but i am unable to answer them because of the holidays. I will do my best to get to them when i am back in Aqaba.

I am not sure who asked, but i assure you we did not offer any money to PPRUNE for any names. It is obvious who is doing the postings, and why they are doing it. All i can say is thank you for making me even more determined and motivated to make Ayla succesful.

Happy 2009 to all, and do keep an eye on our news section.

Marwan
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Old 31st Dec 2008, 16:32
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We knew the answer to question 2 as well.

We are far more interested in question 1.

Rob
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Old 31st Dec 2008, 17:10
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Happy New Year

I am not sure who asked, but i assure you we did not offer any money to PPRuNe for any names. It is obvious who is doing the postings, and why they are doing it.

Happy new year to all

I just would like to add that if you have a look at the beginning of the thread this was suppose to be an aid for Captain Lin... to come back to ayla.

After sending group emails, threads we still knew should would never come back but "if you don't try you will never know"

There was so much more peace and hapiness when she was CFI and always there to listen and help you !!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway if Mr Atalla wants JAA better think of putting JAA CREWs *


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Old 2nd Jan 2009, 21:52
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Steppin' Out

A Prosperous New Year to All!!
I have said all I am going to say on this forum; I feel that now, not only have I made my point - several times it seems - but also my information is rapidly becoming outdated. I am sure it won't be long before we here from Classes B/C, etc. after they graduate, or even the next wave of unsuitable managers/instructors, so the "good stuff" should be available from them.
Best of Luck,
Mark
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Old 3rd Jan 2009, 00:11
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I think that any concerns to be discussed here with Mr. Atalla will not lead to significant outcomes..except for one little thing, as Mr. Atalla must have become more aware of an academy with a reputation on the verge (optimistic view!!). Probably that explains why he decided to "give it a go" over here.

Some other flight schools in the region are also aware of the weaknesses at AAA...You know it very well Mr. Atalla that marketing games might be very nasty sometimes....certainly these schools are going to utilize everything "from fact to fiction" to create an opportunity and market themselves around, imposing a serious threat to your business. Broadly speaking, flight schools business in this area of the world is relatively new, and competition will soon get tougher (only if airliners can withstand it financially nowadays!!)...small mistakes will cost massive market share losses for a given FTO...so expect some sharp forks and knives to come after your piece of steak!!

Only time will tell if AAA realizes that things should swiftly improve on each and every scale with a genuine desire to providing long-term quality service.....before it's already too late.

Mr. Atalla, I hope that you don't really disagree with this because I assume that an experienced CEO like you should have prepared himself for the worst scenario anyway..but I hope it's not really far worse than that!!!
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Old 3rd Jan 2009, 02:56
  #372 (permalink)  
 
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Dear All;
Of our 14 FI’s, 5 have been with us longer that 18 months (3 JAA, one FAA and one Air Transport Canada). The other 9 have been with us between 4 and 9 months.
Of course, as in all statistics, one can argue forever. I maintain the view that for a two year old academy, in Aqaba (admittedly Aqaba is not for everyone), that has such high goals & standards, is not unusual. Nevertheless, that is subjective, so I will not spend more time arguing it.
Dear Striker. I assure you the reason for your delay was the fleet change. I know you had some unusually bad weather for a couple of weeks, and some unplanned military exercises as well, but the fleet change was definitely the largest factor. Although you asked me to, and although it would have been more profitable for the academy, and although there was nothing to stop us from doing so technically, we still chose NOT to take any chances with you guys and we grounded the fleet for safety reasons. I am very proud of the decision we took (by vote of all Flight Instructors) and I would do the exact same thing again, despite the cost of having lost 10 cadets.
You then came and asked me for a guaranteed graduation date. I said no. I don’t believe any self-respecting academy can ever give you a guaranteed graduation date because by definition that is an unsafe thing to do. You found one, and I wish you the best of luck. I hope the watch I gave you will make you remember your good times at Ayla, and rest assured you and your colleagues are welcome back here anytime.
Dear Ice cream pilot. I am sorry but I cannot comment on Lena’s departure as it was her decision, for personal reasons, and I wish her the best of luck.
With regards to your comments about JAA, we are only using JAA for our Ground School, not our flight school. Our ATPL Ground Instructors all have JAA backgrounds, and I would be happy to send you their bios if you e-mail me.
Dear Ayla. I beg to differ. CARC does not guarantee quality of training. CARC is a regulator, and like any regulator, they set minimum standards. Just like there are good schools, and not so good schools in Europe, the US and all over the world, the same applies to any country. It is the Academy that sets the standard, not the regulator.
At the risk of sounding repetitive, I urge all interested cadets to do their homework. Research, visit, talk to the CFI and CGI, talk to the CEO, and do whatever you can to learn about the academies you are considering before taking this very important decision.
Marwan
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Old 3rd Jan 2009, 04:36
  #373 (permalink)  
 
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mmatalla

Thank you for the answer to my question regarding flight instructors.

However, you still haven't answered my question about the turnover of ground instructors.

So, once again, how many of the 8 ground instructors have been employed at AAA for less than 12 months?
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Old 3rd Jan 2009, 04:50
  #374 (permalink)  
 
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mmatalla,

You are right about a regulator setting minimum standards. The JAA/EASA do enforce mininmum standards which are set pretty high! You will find this if you go for JAA/EASA acreditation.

Good authorities will enforce these "high" minimum standards and will take action if those standards are ignored or allowed to slip.

Flying Training minimum standards have to be high and enforced, because of the consequences of not doing so.

Does CARC set high minimum standards and does it enforce them?

Could you name me some "not so good schools" in the UK that meet JAA requirements? There may be some poor school in some developing countries, because high minimum standards are not enforced!

In short having high minimum standards, which are enforced gives the student protection against Flying Schools doing what they please!

Last edited by Ayla; 3rd Jan 2009 at 05:05.
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Old 3rd Jan 2009, 05:14
  #375 (permalink)  
 
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Dear Klubman;

My oversight. We have 8 GI's. One has been with us 16 months, five for 9 months, and two for 3 months.

All but two are JAA instructors, and we are currently looking for one more (JAA). More details on our web site.

Marwan
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Old 3rd Jan 2009, 05:26
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Dear Ayla;

I agree with you, and i believe CARC is doing its best to impose high standards, and they are improving by the day. they are not perfect, but the good news is that they recognize that, and have taken steps towards improving themselves. in fact, they recently took the decison to adopt JAA standards, which is a huge step forward.

i would not try to name schools because i don't think it's appropriate for me to pass judgement. but i would like to restate my sentence for clarificaton to say "some are good and some are not as good". again, it's a subjective issue, but management and leadership are a major part in determining quality.

Marwan
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Old 3rd Jan 2009, 05:30
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Dear Striker5.

no, of course i would not like to discuss a students' case with you online. this is not proper.

like i said, ever person is entitled to a full statement of account detailing his/her charges. please feel free to e-mail me at any time.

Marwan
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Old 3rd Jan 2009, 05:33
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Dear Striker5.

Spins are not permitted under CARC regulations.

Marwan
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Old 3rd Jan 2009, 10:39
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CARC

Mr Atalla,

I must agree with Striker54 about the spins and some other maneuvers that you say are not permitted under CARC regulations

You never know while doing stalls you might enter a spin and it will be a shame for the school that "a student died because he entered a spin and he couldn't recover"

Forwardslip has also been removed why ?

CARC have lot's of improvement to make...In their regulations (as an example) it says that a X-country flight must be a minimum straight line leg of 50 NM from Dep.


Is this requirement respected ? No !

All this is just on the CFIs mood and arragement here and there, and i must say many many people are not happy with his decisions and way of dealing with students!
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Old 4th Jan 2009, 21:26
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Mr. Atallah, It's quite true about what you stated when it comes to the delay but you forgot one essential point which would be our delay for giving priority to class Alpha and I nearly stayed at home with a couple of colleagues of mine for over a month just to catch a flight and then the whole Delta A and Delta B plan that worked out in an outrageous way - just setting things right up straight in this issue. It's true about the fleet change but what puzzles me the most is the decision of us not flying the Diamonds with a certified instructor while class Charlie used to fly solo in the Diamonds later on, how come the FIs changed their minds?.

Believe me, Mr. Atallah I was only there as a listener and I haven't spoken a word with the Golf course nor the separate meeting for us, I had a few minor brief questions to ask but it didn't work out well since both sides were provoked extremely. A lot of acadmies give out at least a month in which the course would graduate in and a lot of them are located in Florida not only in the academy that I have enrolled in.

You're a person of interest and I am a person of interest, both of us take and give. It's the same, imagine as if you were back in Houston - when you don't like something operating you just let it go and go else where to fill in your best interest. It's nothing personal and I hope you did not take it personally, you're as human as I am and there is always a room for fault and error but as your respective management as the whole of Ayla instructors + cadets agree upon when it comes to manupilating the system itself, you have to collect the different point of views and work on them accordingly. Face the problems that your academy is encountering and solve it when the whole majority agree on. It's your academy and it is ours as we were taught in it, it would be sad to see it corrupt through mischievious individuals. Don't trust anyone with your business, trust yourself and trust your decisions. Unfortunately, the one man that could have worked correctly is Mr. Murphy.

One more advice from a concerned human is don't overload yourself with more courses.

Just my 2cents!!

I will appreciate it you Private Message me with the e-mail that you are using so I can be in further contact with you regarding the student's financial problems.

Regards.
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