Ayla Aaa Jordan
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bahrain
Age: 35
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One more point Mr. Atallah, if you train captains and not just pilots you should work on the side with CARC to allow the spins in the whole of Jordan. It's a really terrible way to die in.
Think of it this way, a guy goes to Dubai and rents a Cessna 172 and starts fiddling around with it, goes into an inverted spin and dies. People start talking, the Cessna recovers by itself how did this guy die, another man pops up and says well he studied in Ayla and they don't train on spins and as I have heard that the CARC doesn't allow spins.
How do you expect to graduate a fully capable pilot while he can't recover from a spin, Thankfully some instructors feel guilty and actually show us how to recover from spins because they do not wish to have this person flying around with them signing on their recommendation and dieing over a small tiny maneuver.
Forward Slip is banned now? haha! That's hilarious, I sort of know who came up with this idea as one of the instructor's that I flew with told me that SHE doesn't like to do this manuever because she thought it was dangerous and I NEVER did it with her!! Fortunately, I learnt it from another instructor and I actually used it once when I was on final or I would have collided with another plane in sight.
Flying is not about pitch up and pitch down, it's about controlling it when it enters into an unusual attitude.
Think of it this way, a guy goes to Dubai and rents a Cessna 172 and starts fiddling around with it, goes into an inverted spin and dies. People start talking, the Cessna recovers by itself how did this guy die, another man pops up and says well he studied in Ayla and they don't train on spins and as I have heard that the CARC doesn't allow spins.
How do you expect to graduate a fully capable pilot while he can't recover from a spin, Thankfully some instructors feel guilty and actually show us how to recover from spins because they do not wish to have this person flying around with them signing on their recommendation and dieing over a small tiny maneuver.
Forward Slip is banned now? haha! That's hilarious, I sort of know who came up with this idea as one of the instructor's that I flew with told me that SHE doesn't like to do this manuever because she thought it was dangerous and I NEVER did it with her!! Fortunately, I learnt it from another instructor and I actually used it once when I was on final or I would have collided with another plane in sight.
Flying is not about pitch up and pitch down, it's about controlling it when it enters into an unusual attitude.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: space
Age: 41
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well flying goes into unusual attitude when a pilot flys it carelessly. Anyway bro about spin what i think is not mandatory by alot of CAA's around the world. I remember where i got my pilot license from spin was optional but only Japanese students used to do spin because it was mandatory for them. Anyway all of you Bahraini guys just work hard and be strong..... Best of luck to every aviator
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bahrain
Age: 47
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Usually I ignore thing that I don’t like, or things that I consider hopeless, but I just couldn’t hep my self when I read the following:
This, of course, is in addition to the fact that we provide free laptops & wireless internet access throughout our facilities.
Now that was indeed the funniest thing I read in this whole thread.
Apparently, cadet are being charged almost dbl market price for that scrap (laptop) which I have given to my niece (2 years old) when I went back to Bahrain. I think you need to give what u have said a second thought...
BTW, since we are talking money here, how much does per flying hour cost in AAA???!!!. It’s very confusing due to fluctuation in money paid by different cadets running away from your academy. I have been told that it cost $450/H
, another cadet who left to Florida was charged a different price, and the latest cadet leaving your academy was charged more than $19,000 and left with 20 hours (which makes it very hard to guess the price/Hour he was charged.
2. I hope the watch I gave you will make you remember your good times at Ayla, and rest assured you and your colleagues are welcome back here anytime.
Mmmm, sounds like an emotional blackmail to me.
This, of course, is in addition to the fact that we provide free laptops & wireless internet access throughout our facilities.
Now that was indeed the funniest thing I read in this whole thread.
Apparently, cadet are being charged almost dbl market price for that scrap (laptop) which I have given to my niece (2 years old) when I went back to Bahrain. I think you need to give what u have said a second thought...BTW, since we are talking money here, how much does per flying hour cost in AAA???!!!. It’s very confusing due to fluctuation in money paid by different cadets running away from your academy. I have been told that it cost $450/H
, another cadet who left to Florida was charged a different price, and the latest cadet leaving your academy was charged more than $19,000 and left with 20 hours (which makes it very hard to guess the price/Hour he was charged.2. I hope the watch I gave you will make you remember your good times at Ayla, and rest assured you and your colleagues are welcome back here anytime.
Mmmm, sounds like an emotional blackmail to me.
Last edited by ebrahime; 10th Jan 2009 at 03:00.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bahrain
Age: 35
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not sure about the other CAAs in the world but for me as a pilot I would much more rather have spins involved in my training and as Ayla goes with the moto "Pilots Empowered" as well.
Regardless, it was just an opinion; nothing more and nothing less.
Regardless, it was just an opinion; nothing more and nothing less.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A fully developed spin is an aerobatic maneuver!!
Before anyone goes out and digs themselves an early grave, there's a few things to consider & question before you carry out spins of any sort.
- Regulation. Is it permitted or prohibited by your national aviation authority?
Are there any special rules that apply?
- Is your aircraft certified for spin training? Intentionally spinning a non-certified aircraft is outright dangerous. You nor the plane will be covered by insurance when you do so thus making your flight illegal.
- Owner's permission. It's important to remember that your flying an aircraft owned by someone other than yourself. You therefor play by their rules. If they don't permit spin training in their training aircraft, doing so gives them the grounds to kick you off the course.
In the UK, spinning was dropped as a PPL syllabus requirement back in the 90s as an unfortunate number of students (and instructors) were killing themselves in the process.
Spin avoidance is now where the emphasis is placed and it forms part of the current JAA-PPL syllabus. Rather than learning to recover from a fully developed spin, you are taught to recognize the early onset of a spin and recover before it even develops. You should never need to demonstrate how to carry out a developed spin or a stall for your instructor as it does you no favours.
What you should be demonstrating is how you recover from the earliest sign of an approaching stall or spin both of which should be induced by your instructor - not yourself!
Some flight schools still value spin & upset training and include it as part of their courses which takes place in addition to meeting the minimum licecence requirements. This is usually carried out in an aerobatic aircraft with a flight instructor who's got an aerobatic endorsement.
Remember: Stalls & Spins are aerobatic maneuvers - HASELL checks!!
Before anyone goes out and digs themselves an early grave, there's a few things to consider & question before you carry out spins of any sort.
- Regulation. Is it permitted or prohibited by your national aviation authority?
Are there any special rules that apply?
- Is your aircraft certified for spin training? Intentionally spinning a non-certified aircraft is outright dangerous. You nor the plane will be covered by insurance when you do so thus making your flight illegal.
- Owner's permission. It's important to remember that your flying an aircraft owned by someone other than yourself. You therefor play by their rules. If they don't permit spin training in their training aircraft, doing so gives them the grounds to kick you off the course.
In the UK, spinning was dropped as a PPL syllabus requirement back in the 90s as an unfortunate number of students (and instructors) were killing themselves in the process.
Spin avoidance is now where the emphasis is placed and it forms part of the current JAA-PPL syllabus. Rather than learning to recover from a fully developed spin, you are taught to recognize the early onset of a spin and recover before it even develops. You should never need to demonstrate how to carry out a developed spin or a stall for your instructor as it does you no favours.
What you should be demonstrating is how you recover from the earliest sign of an approaching stall or spin both of which should be induced by your instructor - not yourself!
Some flight schools still value spin & upset training and include it as part of their courses which takes place in addition to meeting the minimum licecence requirements. This is usually carried out in an aerobatic aircraft with a flight instructor who's got an aerobatic endorsement.
Remember: Stalls & Spins are aerobatic maneuvers - HASELL checks!!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aqaba, Jordan
Age: 60
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Striker5;
Our system does involve priority. That is the only way it would work. Airlines adopt a similar seniority structure internally with pilots. So Alpha has priority over Bravo, Bravo over Charlie. And of course, Delta had priority over Echo. It makes more sense to do it that way because the faster the previous course can finish, the more instructors and aircraft are available for the next course. But if a class has priority, it does not mean the other class does not fly at all. In fact, we almost always have overlap in the flight line, and the priority system seems to be working well.
In your particular case, we were going through a fleet change, and we had only one or two aircraft at the time, so when we gave Alpha priority, you were essentially grounded for a few weeks. I make no apology for this and I still believe it was the right thing to do.
With regards to Charlie flying the Diamonds, please remember that Charlie cadets were PPL holders, and we felt that having them fly the DA40’s, IN THE CIRCUIT ONLY, was an acceptable risk. Again, every hour they flew, was an hour that class Delta did not have to wait.
Faced with the same situation, I would have done the exact same thing. As tough a period as it as it was, I never felt such dedication, commitment and loyalty from the Ayla staff, and the vast majority of our cadets.
I wish you luck in your training and your future career.
Marwan
Our system does involve priority. That is the only way it would work. Airlines adopt a similar seniority structure internally with pilots. So Alpha has priority over Bravo, Bravo over Charlie. And of course, Delta had priority over Echo. It makes more sense to do it that way because the faster the previous course can finish, the more instructors and aircraft are available for the next course. But if a class has priority, it does not mean the other class does not fly at all. In fact, we almost always have overlap in the flight line, and the priority system seems to be working well.
In your particular case, we were going through a fleet change, and we had only one or two aircraft at the time, so when we gave Alpha priority, you were essentially grounded for a few weeks. I make no apology for this and I still believe it was the right thing to do.
With regards to Charlie flying the Diamonds, please remember that Charlie cadets were PPL holders, and we felt that having them fly the DA40’s, IN THE CIRCUIT ONLY, was an acceptable risk. Again, every hour they flew, was an hour that class Delta did not have to wait.
Faced with the same situation, I would have done the exact same thing. As tough a period as it as it was, I never felt such dedication, commitment and loyalty from the Ayla staff, and the vast majority of our cadets.
I wish you luck in your training and your future career.
Marwan
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you were essentially grounded for a few weeks. I make no apology for this and I still believe it was the right thing to do.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: wherever I can fly for money!
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In your particular case, we were going through a fleet change, and we had only one or two aircraft at the time, so when we gave Alpha priority, you were essentially grounded for a few weeks. I make no apology for this and I still believe it was the right thing to do.
1) Why you had to change the fleet? Did you find it not coping enough? All of a sudden?!
2) Was your plan for a fleet change just as simple as this??? get rid of the original fleet, bring the replacement fleet, delay cadets for weeks or months, and hell I don't wanna hear anybody complaining coz I did nothing wrong!!! What a plan!!
3) Who should be held responsible for the consequences of fleet changes in the middle of a scheduled training course?
4) After completing the fleet changes, and in terms of "PRIORITY", How did you manage to compensate for the delayed cadets and let them catch back the normal progress?
5) Even if you are not to be blamed for the whole thing, didn't you see youself in a position where you should have ethically offered an apology on the behalf of Mr. Unknown?! Not even now within these discussions?!!!!
6) A naive business owner knows about primitive words like "customers are always right"..You didn't even translate the situation in such way, did you?!
Guys, can anyone help me with few words to best describe a person who has overlooked the above and continued doing whatever he was up to??
YEAH...I CAN HEAR YOU ALL SAYING IT AT ONCE...
INCAPACITATED SMUG!
Thanks Mr. Atalla. You have made it easy for us this time to reach a conclusion!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aqaba, Jordan
Age: 60
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Mike.Park;
I make no apology for grounding the fleet. Paying customers or not paying customers, I will simply not put anyone's life in danger no matter how much they pay or how much delay it causes. Safety is number one and it will always be number one.
Thank you
Marwan Atalla
I make no apology for grounding the fleet. Paying customers or not paying customers, I will simply not put anyone's life in danger no matter how much they pay or how much delay it causes. Safety is number one and it will always be number one.
Thank you
Marwan Atalla
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: land of whiteness.....
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What the news? it's been long time since we hear any news here.... i hear that ayla will be purchased by some Gulf companies...is that right? anyway keep us updated.....
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aqaba, Jordan
Age: 60
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Daddy-long-legs;
All is well thank you for asking. We just started our second Class of Royal Jordanian Cadets (Couse Golf).
No truth to the Gulf rumour. Ayla is not for sale. But we did sign a Joint Venture agreement with Gestair in Europe to share information and best practices.
Marwan Atalla
All is well thank you for asking. We just started our second Class of Royal Jordanian Cadets (Couse Golf).
No truth to the Gulf rumour. Ayla is not for sale. But we did sign a Joint Venture agreement with Gestair in Europe to share information and best practices.
Marwan Atalla
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ayla in Bahrain to drum up business
A "spin session" was held by Ayla Academy @ the Radisson SAS in Bahrain. Make what you will of the article in Bahrain's GDN newspaper.
Females account for less than 5% of Ayla's student body - is that anything to be proud of?
Anyhow, Rebecca Torr at the GDN is more than happy to hear from any of the Bahraini pilots at Ayla and she can reached on [email protected]
Females account for less than 5% of Ayla's student body - is that anything to be proud of?
Anyhow, Rebecca Torr at the GDN is more than happy to hear from any of the Bahraini pilots at Ayla and she can reached on [email protected]
Join Date: May 2007
Location: UAE
Age: 58
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ms Sarrage is quoted in the article saying "that due to Gulf Air's expansion they will need 70-80 pilots".
Perhaps someone from within Gulf Air could give a rough percentage of how many of these vacancies will be filled with BDB sponsored CPL/IR holders, who all need type ratings?
Perhaps someone from within Gulf Air could give a rough percentage of how many of these vacancies will be filled with BDB sponsored CPL/IR holders, who all need type ratings?
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think GF made a sort of plan/schedule for the BDB students
I heard from couple of guyz that they planned Sim slots in June
I heard from couple of guyz that they planned Sim slots in June