Ayla Aaa Jordan
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ok..but I would be so much glad to have more generous information...what is it happening there nowadays that could be linked to AAA becoming JAA approved FTO?
This is a bit big piece of news, if it's really REALLY true! & that's why I ask about the little facts
This is a bit big piece of news, if it's really REALLY true! & that's why I ask about the little facts
Last edited by SilveR5; 12th Dec 2008 at 01:27. Reason: spelling mistakes coz I was thrilled by the subject!
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JAA Approval is Possible
Hi Silver,
Owing to the fact that AAA has links with AFT in Coventry, a JAA-approved organisation, AFT can seek JAA approval for AAA as a satellite operation. This process can approve some or all of the CPL/IR course at AAA, ie., it may be purely a groundschool approval that is sought, or it may be the whole course.
There are sufficient differences in the FAA (CARC) and JAA flight syllabi that full approval will probably be left for the future, ie., when CARC goes JAA as it has indicated it wishes to do so. However, there is the ability to approve the groundschool alone and this would not be very difficult to achieve, albeit relatively expensive owing to the requirements for site inspection.
As to pilotio's comments about GI certification, I would be very surprised if any of them have yet achieved the Instrument Ground Instructor rating. This is the hardest rating and the only 2 GI's who had the rating no longer work there, ie. "A the B" and me!
Owing to the fact that AAA has links with AFT in Coventry, a JAA-approved organisation, AFT can seek JAA approval for AAA as a satellite operation. This process can approve some or all of the CPL/IR course at AAA, ie., it may be purely a groundschool approval that is sought, or it may be the whole course.
There are sufficient differences in the FAA (CARC) and JAA flight syllabi that full approval will probably be left for the future, ie., when CARC goes JAA as it has indicated it wishes to do so. However, there is the ability to approve the groundschool alone and this would not be very difficult to achieve, albeit relatively expensive owing to the requirements for site inspection.
As to pilotio's comments about GI certification, I would be very surprised if any of them have yet achieved the Instrument Ground Instructor rating. This is the hardest rating and the only 2 GI's who had the rating no longer work there, ie. "A the B" and me!
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GI Licences at AAA
In fact CARC Team carried out an inspection of AAA from November 22 to November 25, 2008 to audit it, particularly the licences. Following facts were revealed:-
1. AAA is imparting training to simple CPL/IR licence holders to convert them to the status of CFIs, however AAA is not certified to do so. Moreover these under-training CPL/IR licence holders have not gone solo even after flying 40:00 Hours on the average.
2. Maintenence Director does not possess a licence to supervise maintenence activities.
3. One Simulator installed in Ground School has never been approved for its air wothiness by any agency.
4. Only two, out of six, Ground Instructors were licenced. CGI claims to be possessing AMEL but he could never show it. One of the Deputy CGIs is above 65 years of age caliming to possess an ATPL but physically he does not possess it, so he was absent on the day of Ground School audit. Standardization Manager possesses an ATPL which has expired in September 2002 and thence never renewed, however he gave tough time to CARC team while cross questioning them on their authority. One more newly inducted GI was not having any licence and he has already attained the superannuation age i.e. he is above 65 years of age. The fourth GI is having an engineering degree which enables him to instruct as per his own interpretation of Rules of CARC. CGI is attaining the age of 69 years which is well above the superannuation age of 65 years.
5. The Ground School is without CARC approved CGI for more than 60 days and as per CARC rule 141.187 the funtioning of Ground School can be stopped or AAA licence must be revoked. Strangely CARC feels helpless to take any action against AAA, why? Only God knows.
6. mafemukh can throw some light on these points.
1. AAA is imparting training to simple CPL/IR licence holders to convert them to the status of CFIs, however AAA is not certified to do so. Moreover these under-training CPL/IR licence holders have not gone solo even after flying 40:00 Hours on the average.
2. Maintenence Director does not possess a licence to supervise maintenence activities.
3. One Simulator installed in Ground School has never been approved for its air wothiness by any agency.
4. Only two, out of six, Ground Instructors were licenced. CGI claims to be possessing AMEL but he could never show it. One of the Deputy CGIs is above 65 years of age caliming to possess an ATPL but physically he does not possess it, so he was absent on the day of Ground School audit. Standardization Manager possesses an ATPL which has expired in September 2002 and thence never renewed, however he gave tough time to CARC team while cross questioning them on their authority. One more newly inducted GI was not having any licence and he has already attained the superannuation age i.e. he is above 65 years of age. The fourth GI is having an engineering degree which enables him to instruct as per his own interpretation of Rules of CARC. CGI is attaining the age of 69 years which is well above the superannuation age of 65 years.
5. The Ground School is without CARC approved CGI for more than 60 days and as per CARC rule 141.187 the funtioning of Ground School can be stopped or AAA licence must be revoked. Strangely CARC feels helpless to take any action against AAA, why? Only God knows.
6. mafemukh can throw some light on these points.
Last edited by Truthful; 12th Dec 2008 at 19:51.
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Ayla will soon be a JAA approved facility
In fact this theory was put forward by an un-licenced Deputy CGI who convinced CEO that he would get him JAA approval under the umbrella of AFT Coventory. CEO has given him the date of December 31, 2008 to finalise all arrangements for this approval. So far that DCGI has not been able to finalise the JAA syllabus even of the subjects which he instructs in AAA. They even failed to hold internal CARC examinations for Foxtrot Course before sending them for actual CARC PPL Exam. In fact only one such test was taken of this Course which included only the first two chapters of Gleim. By spreading this rumours, in fact AAA want to attract students and simlutaneously block the outflow of students from here. Now with the onset of non-flying season for well over three months, the frustration of students will grow manifolds. So to preempt this, this rumour of JAA has been propagated among the students presently stranded at AAA.
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mafemukh
Thanks for the clarification. I would regard the process you have explained as the way that should be followed by any FTO to become JAA approved. Theoretically AAA can do it utilizing the links with AFT as you have said. But let's consider one thing about AAA.
In 2007, they have promised that the year 2008 is going to be the "MPL Year". They have gathered respectful people from every place around globe to the MPL symposium in Aqaba. In my knowledge, Gulf Air was even more excited about AAA because of the potential introduction of the MPL course. AAA has vertually done everything to bring around everybody to MPL, saying that AAA and MPL are such a "perfect fit"!! Now where are we with MPL at AAA? absolutely nothing! or hopefully this is gonna be the Xmas surprise!
What I'm trying to say is, unless serious steps forward are initiated and declared by AAA, how could we possibly believe their claims of becoming JAA approved FTO?!
Truthful
part of what you have said is consistent with news I've heard recently.
It's all about integrity gents
Thanks for the clarification. I would regard the process you have explained as the way that should be followed by any FTO to become JAA approved. Theoretically AAA can do it utilizing the links with AFT as you have said. But let's consider one thing about AAA.
In 2007, they have promised that the year 2008 is going to be the "MPL Year". They have gathered respectful people from every place around globe to the MPL symposium in Aqaba. In my knowledge, Gulf Air was even more excited about AAA because of the potential introduction of the MPL course. AAA has vertually done everything to bring around everybody to MPL, saying that AAA and MPL are such a "perfect fit"!! Now where are we with MPL at AAA? absolutely nothing! or hopefully this is gonna be the Xmas surprise!
What I'm trying to say is, unless serious steps forward are initiated and declared by AAA, how could we possibly believe their claims of becoming JAA approved FTO?!
Truthful
part of what you have said is consistent with news I've heard recently.
It's all about integrity gents
Last edited by SilveR5; 13th Dec 2008 at 02:07.
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It would seem slightly pointless for just JAA Acreditation of the Groundschool and not the rest of the course. The student would want to graduate with a full JAA licence. It may make licence conversion easier at a later date perhaps.
To get full JAA acreditation has got to increase the course price significantly especialy as some elements would have to be done at AFT in Coventry.
What has made the CEO change his mind. when the school started with the AFT folks in charge JAA acreditation was always an aim, but was dismissed by the CEO and his supporters who favoured the FAA approach.
To get full JAA acreditation has got to increase the course price significantly especialy as some elements would have to be done at AFT in Coventry.
What has made the CEO change his mind. when the school started with the AFT folks in charge JAA acreditation was always an aim, but was dismissed by the CEO and his supporters who favoured the FAA approach.
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Out of the Loop
I wish I could help you with some of your questions regarding who is and who isn't licensed or aged at the groundschool but there appears to have been major changes there and I've no idea who has been brought in or who has left. The situation was, when I left it:
Acting CGI: British, no CARC certification
Longstanding Jordanian GI: GI cert + AGI/IGI ratings - apparently now gone
Iraqi GI: GI cert + AGI rating - definately now gone
Pakistani GI: GI cert + AGI rating
3 x former MEA Jordanian GI's: GI cert + AGI rating
Freelance GI: for Bridge courses only, British, no CARC certification
With regard to JAA Licensing:
1. Generally, the FTO should have its "Principal Place of Business" in a JAA State. This means that AAA would normally have to be based in Europe; however, it can be used as a satellite by AFT and, as such, operate under AFT's approval. AAA could apply to a JAA state for its own approval; however, there is no obligation for any other JAA state to recognize the license.
2. No Middle East country is a JAA State, although some - Qatar, Kuwait, Oman - have adopted the JAR-FCL system; however, this does not make them a JAA State nor does it make the licenses they issue JAA ones. I had expected the JAA to survive EASA and become a worldwide licensing system but this does not seem to be the case.
3. JAA certification of the groundschool alone is not a bad idea, it allows all of the work up to the last 5 hours of CPL and 10 hours IR to be completed at Ayla before the completion of the CPL/IR + MCC at AFT. The standards in the ground school were acceptable for certification; however, the flight school was in a bit of a mess and whether it could produce a candidate who could pass the CPL and MEIR after the 5/10 hours respectively would be a matter of debate. In addition, the CARC course would have to be modified such that a number of its VFR X-country hours became IFR X-C.
MPL:
See previous posts - I wrote the approved Core and had just finished the Basic for approval when the project was postponed, based on the opinions, albeit well-intentioned, of 2 marketers and 1 low-time FI.
One of the major reasons for postponement was that competency-based assessment documentation had not been produced. Despite my vast experience in writing manuals, it was deemed by those without any curriculum writing experience that this stuff could be easily produced for Core - B***S***, there are too many competencies, which are too varied, and where the learning curve is at its steepest!! Writing the competency-based assessment documentation would have been a huge project that would have cost much and benefitted NOTHING to this phase of training! The documentation would be eminently suitable and easy to produce for the Basic phase and this could have been done while the Core phase was running. However, I was overruled again.
All-in-all MPL could and should have been running at AAA but owing to poor decision-making it is not.
I have not heard about what has happened to this project but my guess is NOTHING - it is exactly the right method for this part of the world, ie. regions without a large General Aviation segment, but it requires vision and clarity, both of which seem to be in short supply in Aqaba!
As to the apparent inactivity towards AAA's certification problems - why am I not surprised!
Acting CGI: British, no CARC certification
Longstanding Jordanian GI: GI cert + AGI/IGI ratings - apparently now gone
Iraqi GI: GI cert + AGI rating - definately now gone
Pakistani GI: GI cert + AGI rating
3 x former MEA Jordanian GI's: GI cert + AGI rating
Freelance GI: for Bridge courses only, British, no CARC certification
With regard to JAA Licensing:
1. Generally, the FTO should have its "Principal Place of Business" in a JAA State. This means that AAA would normally have to be based in Europe; however, it can be used as a satellite by AFT and, as such, operate under AFT's approval. AAA could apply to a JAA state for its own approval; however, there is no obligation for any other JAA state to recognize the license.
2. No Middle East country is a JAA State, although some - Qatar, Kuwait, Oman - have adopted the JAR-FCL system; however, this does not make them a JAA State nor does it make the licenses they issue JAA ones. I had expected the JAA to survive EASA and become a worldwide licensing system but this does not seem to be the case.
3. JAA certification of the groundschool alone is not a bad idea, it allows all of the work up to the last 5 hours of CPL and 10 hours IR to be completed at Ayla before the completion of the CPL/IR + MCC at AFT. The standards in the ground school were acceptable for certification; however, the flight school was in a bit of a mess and whether it could produce a candidate who could pass the CPL and MEIR after the 5/10 hours respectively would be a matter of debate. In addition, the CARC course would have to be modified such that a number of its VFR X-country hours became IFR X-C.
MPL:
See previous posts - I wrote the approved Core and had just finished the Basic for approval when the project was postponed, based on the opinions, albeit well-intentioned, of 2 marketers and 1 low-time FI.
One of the major reasons for postponement was that competency-based assessment documentation had not been produced. Despite my vast experience in writing manuals, it was deemed by those without any curriculum writing experience that this stuff could be easily produced for Core - B***S***, there are too many competencies, which are too varied, and where the learning curve is at its steepest!! Writing the competency-based assessment documentation would have been a huge project that would have cost much and benefitted NOTHING to this phase of training! The documentation would be eminently suitable and easy to produce for the Basic phase and this could have been done while the Core phase was running. However, I was overruled again.
All-in-all MPL could and should have been running at AAA but owing to poor decision-making it is not.
I have not heard about what has happened to this project but my guess is NOTHING - it is exactly the right method for this part of the world, ie. regions without a large General Aviation segment, but it requires vision and clarity, both of which seem to be in short supply in Aqaba!
As to the apparent inactivity towards AAA's certification problems - why am I not surprised!
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JAA approval
As mafemukh outlined, JAA approval is theoretically possible. Whether or not this materializes is another question. If AAA are struggling to comply with local CARC legislation as Truthful detailed in a previous post, how on earth are they to meet the requirements of JAR-FCL? I was just reading through the UK CAA's guidance notes [pdf] for the approval of overseas JAA-PPL training and there are so many areas AAA wouldn't satisfy in it's present state - and those are just PPL requirements!
The easiest route to approval would be for AAA to act as overseas satellite operation to AFT. They share the same parent company so I cannot see why this could not happen if it made good business sense.
Mafemukh, I'm assuming both AAA and AFT are operated independently of one another. Is there any 'gene flow' between the two outfits?
The easiest route to approval would be for AAA to act as overseas satellite operation to AFT. They share the same parent company so I cannot see why this could not happen if it made good business sense.
Mafemukh, I'm assuming both AAA and AFT are operated independently of one another. Is there any 'gene flow' between the two outfits?
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Pilitio
PILITIO
If you want me to believe that Ayla is STILL under GF, BA and BDB approval and consideration, then kindly list the names of the new Bahraini cadets supported by one of the companies above to join Ayla, and I will confirm it with any of them.
mafemukh
What would happen to the students -such as Pilitio- who had their training on the uncertified simulator and under supervision of uncertified instructors? Do they have to go over it again?
Thank you
If you want me to believe that Ayla is STILL under GF, BA and BDB approval and consideration, then kindly list the names of the new Bahraini cadets supported by one of the companies above to join Ayla, and I will confirm it with any of them.
mafemukh
What would happen to the students -such as Pilitio- who had their training on the uncertified simulator and under supervision of uncertified instructors? Do they have to go over it again?
Thank you
Last edited by EHBH; 13th Dec 2008 at 20:33. Reason: font
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Well my dear friend if you want to discuss this:
1- Neither GF or BDB recommend a training facility for the students. They open a free choice to everyone to choose wherever they want and If you want to believe me I can prove to you in Black and White that GF recommends AAA but I dont think I am forced to do so by end of the day its my personal openion and I am staying here.
2- I guess there were some expats who adviced us not to visit PPRUNE and discuss anything about AAA because all what its being said is not more than rumours but I guess things have changed now.
Anyways, I just came here to post my reply just to clarify few things not to get into deep arguements and I have more things to worry about in my training rather than talking about the academy which I belong to. Keep bringin your academy down by your rumours and by end of the day look who will trust you being in his company if this is what you do to your academy. So I guess people better think positively and try to be constructive members by giving good feedback rather complaining for nothing. If you really want the best for yourself then work for it otherwise just simply leave nothing is stopping you my friend !! Many others did and they are happy.
1- Neither GF or BDB recommend a training facility for the students. They open a free choice to everyone to choose wherever they want and If you want to believe me I can prove to you in Black and White that GF recommends AAA but I dont think I am forced to do so by end of the day its my personal openion and I am staying here.
2- I guess there were some expats who adviced us not to visit PPRUNE and discuss anything about AAA because all what its being said is not more than rumours but I guess things have changed now.
Anyways, I just came here to post my reply just to clarify few things not to get into deep arguements and I have more things to worry about in my training rather than talking about the academy which I belong to. Keep bringin your academy down by your rumours and by end of the day look who will trust you being in his company if this is what you do to your academy. So I guess people better think positively and try to be constructive members by giving good feedback rather complaining for nothing. If you really want the best for yourself then work for it otherwise just simply leave nothing is stopping you my friend !! Many others did and they are happy.
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Rumours
I guess there were some expats who adviced us not to visit PPRuNe and discuss anything about AAA
This is after all a rumour network as the title suggests. Not all rumours turn out to be false or inaccurate!
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EHBH
People say its a rumour network, yes its true but honest to GOD speaking each and every word of my post # 244 & 245 is correct. I challenge everybody to porve my these posts to be wrong and thence I shall quit this Forum.
For mafemukh
Please note that even one of the three Jordanian GIs is also un-licenced while he is not willing to take the CARC knowledge and oral test for GI licence as he thinks an an engineer does not require this licence to instruct under-training pilots. One more newly inducted Met Instructor, a Jordanian, is also un-licenced.
JAA approval
As per JAA rules only the acedmies of JAA member states can be approved for JAA Syllabus. Furhtermore, presently none of the GIs is a JAA licenced or approved instructor & only two CFIs are holding these licences, I suppose for these CFIs but I am not sure. Also read JAA Rule-141 for Instructor qualifications, Rule-143 and 145 for maintenence and then you will come to know that this JAA conversion of AAA is all nothing but a drama staged just to hold in the present students.
For mafemukh
Please note that even one of the three Jordanian GIs is also un-licenced while he is not willing to take the CARC knowledge and oral test for GI licence as he thinks an an engineer does not require this licence to instruct under-training pilots. One more newly inducted Met Instructor, a Jordanian, is also un-licenced.
JAA approval
As per JAA rules only the acedmies of JAA member states can be approved for JAA Syllabus. Furhtermore, presently none of the GIs is a JAA licenced or approved instructor & only two CFIs are holding these licences, I suppose for these CFIs but I am not sure. Also read JAA Rule-141 for Instructor qualifications, Rule-143 and 145 for maintenence and then you will come to know that this JAA conversion of AAA is all nothing but a drama staged just to hold in the present students.
Last edited by Truthful; 14th Dec 2008 at 18:51.
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(Next will be outsiders writing here not to post, trust me they will soon approach them. )
How do they do it? Moneybag? not much left
Shares ? we all know now it is going back
SO how the f
# they /He/She will do it
How do they do it? Moneybag? not much left
Shares ? we all know now it is going back
SO how the f
# they /He/She will do it
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Aim Hi
Yes may be through the use of Feloos and identification of poster through use of certain software. Although AAA itself is running into great loss but still they have money because money has never been a problem here. If a superannuated unlicenced GI can be given a salary of 5000 JoD and a house worth 650 JoD per month, a lady can be given a gift of over 3000 JoD on her birth day and joy rides in AAA aircraft; then money is not a problem.
, and one of them was Ayla Diamond 42 AC.