ashcroft79

A buddy of mine txted me saying he saw an article in aviation week that stated that they think NAS will be out of business within a couple of years. Anybody see this article? I'm not trying to start a rumor going I'm just trying to get more info.

Crianza 1970

do you have a link for this news?

Crianza 1970

still would like to know how the nas pilots think about the company? good or not so good?

ShinjukuHustler

Nas on the verge of going the same way as Sama did last year.

Massive losses to date, a new management team being brought in now.

2011 was suppposed to be make or break for them. The rumour goes, if they don't break even by end of 2011 then it's curtains.

Airlines don't go out of business 'in a couple of years'. The process leading up to it can be lengthy I will admit, mismanagement and such but when it happens it does so quickly and the employees will not know until the very moment it happens. Until that day comes they will continue as normal, selling tickets, hiring etc etc and give the impression of normaility until the music stops. Alot of you have been through it before.

The tipped losers were in the Gulf region were Sama, Wataniya, Nas and Bahrain Air. 2 are gone, the other 2 are likely to follow..

Cair117

Gentleman, A couple of questions that I would appreciate answered. I have been going threw this thread trying to gather some information about NAS. Its been and up and down type of thread and I am kind of confused.

For the commuting contract, is your flight home garanteed every 6 weeks to and from your home country?

What is the living conditions like in riyadh and jeddah? Are you on a compound? if so, how are the ammenities?

Are the trips multi-day trips away from base...overnighting in different countries/cities? Or are they just turns?

What are the crews like? Multi national crews? Americans? Europeans? Asians? Middle Easterners?

from what Im reading, there seems to be a change in management there and it may be getting better as far as moral. Is this accurate? How do you see the future of Nas playing out.

I was offered to go for an interview in June in Istanbul Turkey, but may not go because $$ is light and I cant but the ticket. It seems like they wont reimburse the expense from what Ive been reading.

I live in the United States now, I am currently a Captain flying the E-175/190. I am ready for a change, its either Nas or Tainjin in China...

any Advice is Extremely apprerciated.

Thanks in Advance.

Rich

cameltoad

I flew at NAS for a year and a half before coming to China, as long as your in good health, and I mean better than FAA 1st class, truly no problems at all, do yourself a favor and go to China

legion319

Hi,
Could you give me more infos about the schedule, and how the pilots are treated, I am a captain on the bus in the states.
cheers
jc

cameltoad

Do u want to know about NAS or China?

Cair117

I am looking for info on both. I have not made a decision on where to go yet. Tainjin airlines is hiring for 190 captains but I need a restriction taken off my FAA ATPL first before an interview is offered. What's the advantage of working in china opposed to working in the middle east? The money seems better at NAS and they pay for my flight home every 6 weeks, I don't think there is a carrier in china that offers that. Opinions..

legion319

both would be nice and which airline in china
cheers

cameltoad

As far as how the Airline treats you I have had better treatment in China, there is a lot of BS and quasi lying when it comes to NAS. It's a pretty screwed up place, perpetually burning through tons of cash mainly from internal fraud and piss poor business practices. The NAS management is a constant revolving door of mainly SABB bank managers who have no idea what they are doing. I'm sure you guys have read the threads from a year or so ago, all the mud slinging between the western pilot's and the Arab ones, This is a product of the upper management bring in westerners, usually brits, to try to get the operation running like it should. This ultimately leads to them pissing off the rank and file of the Arab pilots and Flt. Ops. types which leads to them running to the Arab upper management whining about how "the foreigners are ruining our company, we should take care of ourselves" so then they clean house, put a bunch of arabs from the region with dubious qualifications to do things like D.O. or Trng. manager and they promptly run it back into the ground.
And as far as lifestyle there is absolutely no comparison, the fact of the matter is unless you are Arab and Muslim you are going to feel really out of place. Do not kid yourself, this is a very different, closed society. I am not making judgments but if you are from the west it is a huge adjustment. Everything closes 5 times a day for prayer, you will never ever see a female in public much less have ANY hope of meeting one unless you live on a compound and the million-to-one chance of a single expat woman lives there (I'll be blunt, that is not going to happen.) There is no alcohol, you might come across home brew if the compound you live on is making their own, but the main thing is there is just nothing to do. Arab society in the Kingdom revolves around family and prayer and little else, and by the way 6 months of the year it is so unbelievably hot you don't want to do anything anyway.
As far as China goes how you are treated by the airline would depend on which airline you fly for, any of you guys want to P.M. me I'll tell you who I fly for and yes I like them just fine. The tough part about China is if your from the states it is truly the far side of the world and on paper, and I emphasis on paper, the Saudi deal is better due to the fact that they give you tickets home and I don't think any Chinese carrier does that. I am full time here but I know plenty of guys who commute and it runs them about a grand on average year round per round trip ticket from where we are.
The tough part of flying in China is mainly dealing with the CAAC. Taking the Chinese written, the lengthy time for all paperwork, licenses, work visa, ramp pass to get processed. The fact that you have to get the circling restriction removed from your license only to find out that they don't do them either! But the worst is the dreaded Chinese medical. I am again not going to sugar coat it, it's tough, it's unreasonable, and change in China is measured by centuries. We all live in constant fear of, fatty liver, gall stones, kidney stones, any thing less than a perfect heart, blood pressure, a weird treadmill stress test, etc. etc. The first medical is nothing short of NASA 1959. Most of these problems they will let you get sorted out but it's just anoying that anywhere else in the world no one would not care about 90% of the crap that here is disqualifying.
The actual flying can have it's challenges. Personally I can understand the Chinese speaking English a lot better than the Arab accent. On the downside, the Chinese speak Chinese to their indigenous crews. Unlike the Middle East which has only 2 kinds of weather, CAVOK or 50 meters in a sand storm, China has a lot of weather but nothing any airline guy from Europe or the US hasn't seen before, but your on your own in dealing with it. Also the Chinese fly using meters, it's a pain in the butt, you carry a little laminated card with the conversions and of course your Chinese F/O loves to constantly show you that he has it memorized and doesn't need a card.
For all that life in China is very good, I brought an American wife and a 10 and 13 year old son with me and they all have had a great time here. The Chinese are a very gracious and gentle group of people and after 18 months in Saudi it was very refreshing to not be in a society so controlled and restricted. Any activity that you may have enjoyed in the west, except for anything involving a firearm, you can do here as well. Nightlife is in abundance as well as a never ending supply of very beautiful Chinese girls who are fascinated by western men.
Sorry for the lengthy thread and I know it fairly broad spectrum but hopefully this answers most of your questions if you leave me an email or skype in a pm I'll do my best to answer anything else more detailed oriented.

MOHFADL330

can any one tell me about salary of captain a320 in deitals

Rice or Sand

This may apear to be a strange question. If you were at a Chinese airline making 12k a month would you leave and take a job with NAS which with the current pay and hours is 16k-18k a month? I was already offered the job. The airline I work for will be here for a long time but not sure about the future of NAS.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. And of coarse I expect some of you to make dumb comments. Seems there are those people that just have nothing else to do but ruin this forum.

Appalachian

I would look at Cameltoad's post again. It's a honest comparison. But it is whatever a guy can live with in the end. Good luck with your decision. Cheers

cameltoad

I've worked at both and I would not do it, first off I was at NAS and they will find a way to screw you so unless the contract is for a hard and fast 16k a month don't believe it. Second I would be concerned about NAS's future going forward, it has never come close to braking even much less a profit and how long a future the place has is truly a mystery. If you are in China and coming close to finishing your current contract Tianjin is offering about the same money.
In the end every guy is different, if your an absolute whore for the money and nothing else matters then I guess that is your choice, I personally would not trust the Saudi's, and this is based on MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, they may offer the moon but my guess is they will find some way to weasel it down. I have watched them do it to too many guys.

Crianza 1970

it's always nice to read different point of views. the 16.5k/mth full time is based on 65hrs. and the 14.3k/mth commute is based on same hrs.

the question will be for folks is, do the nas pilots actually do a min of 65hrs? the feedback i get is they do between 70 and 85 hrs/mth. so, in theory the quoted amounts should be the min paid.

but as many people have said before, can u really trust an arab? for those of us who have been offered employment and actually decide to take the gig, time will tell.

good luck fellas.

and thanks ct for your continued inputs to this post. good info.

Rice or Sand

Thank you all for your posts...

I have to tell you I have been screwed twice in China so I am considering the SAND. I have talked to a few pilots there now and they are indeed taking home 18k a month. And if anyone has gone through a divorce and pays a crapload to an EX, than you may understand how important every dollar is. After all.... don't I deserve to have a life too... ha ha.

I look forward to any more replies. I would love to here from someone flying there now about living conditions.

speedbird1969

Its all true about the pay increase and pay scale. Living here isn't bad at all..its what you make of it..Riyadh base..more conservative. Jeddah..more open minded..dinning, beach, etc.. .Must respect the laws of the land, fly your schedule and get payed.

Rice or Sand

This backs up what I have been hearing. The Tianjin interview "well there is no interview" was so unorganized and they just put you through everything... med, sim, written. If you pass everything you have a job. The NAS interview starts off with a powerpoint presentation by the COO and talks about NAS old and new. The difference at least visually is extreme. NAS looks much more professional. I was told by NAS that I would be reimbursed for my ticket to the interview "max 500 euros" within 30 days... got paid in 25. Tianjin took 2 months and was paid in RMB. NAS looks like a good choice for me.

Crianza 1970

hi rice

can you tell me a little more about tianjin. eg, do they pay on time? how many ex-pat pilots do they have right now? which broker do you recommend?

I'm considering applying, but already got job offer from NAS, its a toss up for me. Saudi/China, its about finding a balance I guess.