LookingSouth

Good Day. Does anyone know of when CTC will be offering another round of FO interviews?

Thanks

NGrat

Hi Guys,

Does anyone have any facts regarding the repatriation tickets mentioned in the FZ contract??
I heard that some guys was denied the tickets because they were joining a nother like Emirates or Etihad??
I believe the contract clearly states that FZ will provide repatriation tickets after completion of contract, and nothing is mentioned about leaving or staying in UAE!!
Does anyone know if its mentioned in UAE labour law??

Cheers

NG

NewBird

Hello Ngrat,

I dunno about FZ contracts - but my company gives a ticket only when one is moving out of UAE permanently. Few of my friends who have moved over to other companies in the UAE - were not given a ticket. From what limited knowledge i have on UAE labor law -unfortunately - one is entitled to get a ticket only if you move permanently out of UAE

Bodacia

Hi,

I am a recent ex 767 captain, and a four year ex 737 captain, is it worth applying to Fly Dubai in the hope of getting a fairly rapid command? I have been reading some of the posts here, is it that bad or are these things being over stated? Is it easy to get back and forth to London with staff travel? I have spoken to a friend in Emirates who says that the pay of a Fly Dubai captain is about the same as an Emirates First Officer when the perks of the companies are taken into consideration, is this the general perception in Fly Dubai? One last question, I hear that Definately Emirates and possibly Etihad received about a months salary as a bonus last year, was this also the case with Fly Dubai.

Apologies for all the questions, but I have applications in progress for Emirates and Etihad, I don't want to miss out on a chance of a quick command with Fly Dubai should I blow the Emirates interview for DEC next month.

Elephant flyer

Bodacia - Go for the Emirtaes DEC - it's a no brainer. Conditions are far superior. As you know there are no DEC positions in Fludubai now and all promotions are upgrades. Flydubai have reduced the remaining number of 737s on order and this year there will only be a net gain of approx 3 or 4 aircraft. So no point in joining as an FO with a hope of quick upgrade as it is done on seniority. There won't be that many upgrades this year which is going to upset a lot of FOs. The company has held an emergency meeting to discuss the large amount of pilot resignations. Don't know what was reviewed, but there's been no mention of any pay increase this year, and there's been no increase in transport allowance, education allowance or housing allowance for a number of years.
Now pilots feel trapped in the company. Bad enough a $24,000 bond for three years (even for type rated pilots), although every pilot accepted this when starting, but now they have an agreement with Emirates to stop pilots joining ER until they've been at FZ for three years.
They must be so scared about pilots wanting to leave.

Maybe the "grown up way" and professional way would be to consider the conditions and improve them. Though some things won't change.

Make your decision, but I wouldn't cancel that interview with ER!

ABBOT

This is getting increasingly difficult to use, now you have to fill in a form, have it approved, get a number from Emirates and then drag off to the travel office for the issue of a low priority ticket.

You then turn up at the airport and try to get a flight, the chances of getting on can be very slim. Now, if bumped off, you used to be able to call the Emirates travel centre and get re-listed, then have a shot at another flight.

That situation is no more, according to the latest plan, you have to e-mail Emirates and get another number to allow you to re-list. I have not tried it yet, but I think it will make being bumped from the 08:00 LGW, then resisting by phone onto the 08:05 BHX and then sprinting for the gate a little difficult.

Flydubai's in house travel is easier, all on line with six discounted firm seats per aircraft up for grabs. Can be a little pricey, but they are firm.

Hope this helps with your plans.

biggle99

Hello Guys

What exactly are they looking for as First Officer regarding hours and experience. I just received an email from Flydubai.

Thank you for your application to flydubai.

Following a careful review of your completed application, we regret to advise you that your application has not been successful on this occasion. Unfortunately, we are unable to provide any feedback on the reasons for our decision at this time.

Currently flying Q400 as command and have over 7000 hours of which 4000 multi pic. Also hold a B737 rating

Also can I reapply again in the future ? it doesn't show anywhere.

Cheers

Fly26

Recieved the same email........Im 2600 hours on type, Have FD stopped recruiting FO's now? thanks all.

Boeing Europe

Hi all just curious as to some people saying emirates FO'S make the same as fly dubai captains as advertised on the ek website emirates FO's are on 29k aed basic while on flydubai website it says Fo's can expect to earn approx 39k aed thats like 6800 euros and from what i have been told by other friends working in dubai (non aviation) they said you can live extremely confortable on that after your rent is paid etc even with private pension paid insurance etc,talking about a single guy n my case no spouse / kids

Iver

Sorry to be a bit negative, but maybe you gents who received the bad news from Flydubai should see this as a "sign." Why not add to your experience and hours and then apply to Emirates and Qatar once you are more competitive instead? Both are growing fast... QR is adding 750 pilots this year according to a recent article. Just a suggestion...

Flat Cap

@BE

It's more complicated to compare than you might guess. EK get fringe benefits like paid housing inc. utilities and a chauffeur car to and from the airport these are not included in the 29k, all of this is included in a FZ FO's 39k.

But to give you a board comparison the total package if you factor this in for an EK FO would be 29k basic&flight pay, 13k housing, and oh say 1.5k for transport and 1.5k for utilities.

So FZ Fo = 39k (36k is closer to the truth), EK FO. approx 45k, FZ Capt. 52k

hope this helps.

F-C

VaniosLenos

Recently the company was hiring first officers with no experience on type, straight out of ATRs and Jetstreams etc, to fly the NG, probably in an effort to man the agressive expansion. By the time these pilots, together with the cadetts, gain experience on type, along with the internal upgrades, will have as a result, the overall drop of the level of experience of the company's pilots. And on a busy 4 sector day or when things start to look...complicated then its not a good recipe. I would like to hope that rostering is aware of this and is not pairing new upgrades with new, inexperienced on type, hires.
Also there is a possibility that the company has realized this particular issue and they are now looking 'more carefully' (through CTC) for pilots experienced on type, taking into consideration the fact that only 3 or 4 new aircraft are arriving this year.

RandyBMC

The upgrade requirements are "vigorous", with the average flight time of an upgrade candidate being around 7000 hours (some a lot more, some less). The minimum requirement to upgrade is 4000 total, 1000 B737 and 500 flydubai. There are then several checkpoints to reach the upgrade, including a panel interview with the Chief Pilot and Head of Training. Not really seeing the drop in experience you are mentioning.

That said, I don't disagree that our environment is challenging, and it takes a good crew to make it work!

FZckntkawrap

Hi VL,

While I agree that the overall level of NG experience may have decreased in recent months, I honestly think the overall standard of pilot has increased in the right seat. Personally I would rather have a 4,000 hour former turboprop skipper backing me up in the right seat than a 2,000 hour 737NG only pilot who went through a cadet program. It's not meant as a slam against cadets, but sitting in the LEFT seat of ANY aircraft making decisions makes you a much better FO if you have to sit right seat once again to eventually advance your career. It really is strange all of this attitude about "oh god, we've hired a bunch of turboprop pilots". Most of the recent hires won't see upgrade for at least a good solid 3 years, just ask the guys that have already been waiting 2+ years.......

As for rostering, if it's legal, they will schedule it

Dan 98

I have just had the PFO didn't even make the paper sift!! TR 737 with 1600hrs on type.
I obviously didn't tick one of the boxes....they don't tell you which one though.

NGrat

Thanks... Guess ill wait a few month with my resignation. And of course ill be leaving the country...
Just heard a few Captains got denied DEC with EK even though they have been with FZ more than 3 years, and had the received thumbs up by EK, can anyone confirm that?? If thats the case i think FZ really is stretching the boundry here... they might as well hire slaves and take away their passports!!

NG

Alaska737

It was inevitable that they would create some kind of permanent ban to stop anyone leaving FD to go to EK. How can you trust a company that has successively each year implemented a new ban! There is no respect anymore, the word "slave" is very real at FD.

tothepoint

Randy,
Vigorous - doesn't really spring to mind. Those on furlough with a decision between 3 deferrals and up to 10 years to make their mind up should consider themselves fortunate to be hired relatively early on in the piece to be given the opportunity to upgrade. Especially when the old CP was accepting F/O office workers and extra curricular activities as a carrot.

I'm of the opinion that 4 sims and some line training to command isn't vigorous compared to the majority of other airlines around the world. And I've flown with some that would have not made it through a vigorous process! So the line experience of a newly upgraded 1000hr 737NG capt rostered to go to OAKB on their first roster is probably stretching it and leaving the door open to some indiscretions. Learn on the job with basic upgrade training is where FZ is at, great if you have the seniority but unless capt move on there are many with much more than the minimum that won't get the chance for a while.

In relation to the DEC at EK, that is by far the biggest threat. - those that have completed the initial 3 year contract that were accepted and then denied are having their livelihood dictated by management that are inept and borderline unconscious to what is happening around them. (or very conscious to what's happening and resort to this kind of behaviour).

On another note Mogadishu hasn't happened as yet - still waiting.

Rostering is still a farce and if you are a night owl and enjoy living in the night rather than the day then this is the job for you!!

For those that have missed out on being recruited consider it a good thing.
Many are there are hoping that Europe and the US will pick up economically so they can return - not many in for the long term.

Not to say that I don't enjoy the variety of flying but discussions at pilot meetings to fix things such as pay structures and rosters to make FZ attractive and keep people here are useless until there is some action taken.

RandyBMC

Vigorous is certainly what I consider the interview to be, considering there isn't one in the US, at any carrier. It is seniority based. I can't argue with you when you say you have flown with some that would not have made it through a "real" vigorous process, as it was your experience and not mine; I just hope you aren't referring to me!

I do consider myself lucky to have been hired at flydubai when I was. Just like I consider myself to be unlucky to be at UAL when I was to endure two furloughs and have to rebuild my career twice. I am always thankful for any opportunity I am given in aviation - something I think I have learned over a, well, not short career. I am no spring chicken anymore (not that I'm old!).

I have worked in the office on a couple of special projects. One of those is the current issue of pilot morale - which I am trying to use to better the conditions. I certainly wouldn't have tried to make a difference if I thought everything was perfect here. Take a look back at my posts and I think I have been pretty honest and realistic about flydubai, good and bad. Most, if not all, of the things I have worked "in the office" on have been to better the pilot group's conditions. More like union work (an illegal term here, which is why it is office work).

Ok, so all of that said, I agree that we fly to some very challenging places, even for experienced folks - circle to lands in KTM and KBL are good examples. I have been thankful for the excellent help I've encountered from both seats. I was merely saying in my above post that I don't necessarily see any difference in the quality of the upgrades to the DECs. Thought that to be a fair statement to rebut.

Feel free to shoot me an email if you have anything else you would like to discuss. I'd be happy to buy a round while we talk it over.

Randy

tothepoint

Not a dig at you R, BMC more so on the word vigorous, I think that the process here is a little less vigorous than others and the process could be a little better.

I think it leaves alot of guys learning out on the line which ain't so good for the new upgrades considering where we fly, they just have the advantage of seeing it for a year or 2 before the change seats.

my shout on the beers - no offence was intended personally.