jimmyg

Does that mean what has been posted is not true?

Flat Cap

It means that XL is reporting what a friend at Fly Dubai has told him, not his direct experience.

So like most every other post here at pprune, it contains elements of fact, elements of speculation, and elements of what ever slant the orginal source chose to give it.

Some will spin a dark picture, other others a bright one. The truth lies all across the spectrum between the two.

Cheers
F-C

PS. XL was a uk charter airline that fell victim to the economic collapse in 2008.

BurDubaiBob

I am a pilot in flydubai and imho ex-XLs report is right on!

For a long time I have been advising friends not to come here and will continue to do so. Many of my colleagues are similarly advising their friends. This place is not as advertised. It is populated by one of the worst management & administrative cultures that it has ever been my displeasure to work with, one which is either blind, or ignorant, or arrogant to the damage they have caused and continue to cause to crew morale & T&C's. Our senior cabin crew are resigning in droves and the vast majority of pilots are p!ssed off to the back teeth with how things work around here. Southwest Airlines of the Middle East it is NOT!

Fata Morgana 909

Anyone who knows how the Flydubai leave policy is? Can you for example take three times 14 days a year, or do you have to take 30 days in a row like in Ryan?

Also it is paid, anything else you need to know regarding leave?


Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Be well

NGFellow

What are the neighborhoods (family) that would be suitable for a FlyDubai pilot? It would have to be relatively close to the airport (30 mins) since one probably would be working 5ON/2OFF or 6 ON/1OFF. Also fairly close to major international schools and somewhat within the Captain allowance of AED 160,000 (Villa or Apr 3 bedrooms or bigger).

mikehagen

What is the policy at FD regarding hiring guys on leave from current employers?

NGFellow

I would guess that they would not care as you are required to sign a 3 year/24K bond. If you leave before that then you owe them the amount which is prorated. Based on the write-ups it does not seem to be a career airline, and more of a contract position. After three years of abuse, people just go elsewhere.

NGFellow

My preliminary research is indicating that the allowances offered simply defer the costs but don't actually cover them in entirety. For example the school allowance is AED 30,000. Most schools will run between AED 40,000-60,000. Housing is AED 160,000. A nice 3-4 bedroom will run between 180,000-240,000. You also have to buy health insurance for your family as they are not covered. So while you might be making more money at FD on paper, your out of pocket expenses will be significant.
Add to that the fact that you are bonded for 3 years/24K. Stuck even if you hate it.

For those of you currently there, am I pretty close on my estimation or off base?

skysod

Ok, I can't resist any longer......and just to show it's not all bad........I'm an F/O here at Flydubai, just into my second year........I love it here, wife loves it too and I'm far better off financially (even after paying all the bills) than I was as a Captain in my previous job!

dcsagcs

Guys think less about money! As a pilot you can still have fun flying your bird, but it`s not a place to take your family...

Flat Cap

Your a bit over on housing costs, NG-F, it does depends where you live. But the usual pilot ghetto's are Arabian Ranches, 3bed+Study+maids+familyplayroom with a lake view 3000sq ft is about Dh 150,000. Similar in Emirates Living-Meadows/Springs. Go to Victory Heights you could easily get 4/5 bed almost 5000 sq ft. for the same sort of price. Prices still falling as well, so you should be able to remain in pocket on housing.

Lots of useful info on housing and living in dubai here:
Dubai Expat Forum for Expats Living in Dubai - Expat Forum For Expats, For Moving Overseas And For Jobs Abroad

Dubai does have a chronic under supply of school places, so prices are high, and waiting lists long for the most popular schools. It's not unusual for people to have to supplement school fee's, so you will probably be out of pocket there.

The bond is 24k amortising over 3 yrs, you will do a 738 conversion course whatever so there is no weaseling out of it. There are however more expensive bonds in the world over longer periods too.

Keep in mind flydubai is not I repeat not a western airline, if you come you need your eyes wide open, and your wits about you, and beyond taking the money expect nothing. Guys like BurDubaiBob don't get that pissed off for good no reason, it is a long long way from perfect, that said and at risk of getting flamed I will stick my neck out and say there are quite a few worse airlines to work for in the Middle and Far East.

Up side: the money is not bad for a 737 gig, pay is regular. 42 days a year leave. Your in Dubai probably the city of choice in this neck of the woods. The aircrews are all pretty good, with the odd loose cannon thrown in to keep you on your toes. Brand new top spec aircraft.

Down Side: Dodgy destinations, Kabul and Erbil in Iraq probably most notable. Lots of flying to airfields in the moutains with an NDB at 1 end and CbTs on the other. US Airforce management techniques can be....interesting, so be good and don't cock up; you will be asked to consider you employment options if you do. Leave not notified until 2 months before so planning is a pain, currently on a straight seniority basis. Pay and terms and condition predicated on the pilot market, economic down turn resulted in a 10% paycut. Not yet reversed and nothing on the horizon. The schedule/roster can be a real horror, deep night reports 02:00 or so for a 4 sector night duty finishing at 10am next morning, within 10mins of min. rest before you got to darkest Africa on the evening of the same day. It's legal but not pretty.

Tried to be reasonably even handed, I'm sure other may well chip in.

Personally for me, its good so far and have no complaints at the moment I'm in the "happy camp". Pilots do however operate in a fluid environment always subject to change.

Cheers
F-C

NGFellow

So if one had an offer from FlyDubai Vs Oman Air, which would be better? Also keeping in mind that at FD all you will ever fly is the NG. At WY you MIGHT get to the A330.

fly2AK

Skysod- you seem to be a rarity here, as I too am on my second year I see many that are not happy with how things have turned out. I don't think I neccessarily net more here than I did in my home country as a captain. Now with that said, I am hopeful FD will come around and improve morale and live up to some of the promises they sold most of us on prior to employment here. I think most of us are giving the company 2 -3 years and if things don't improve many will leave between that time frame. I meet very few pilots that say they love it here in Dubai and with FD, but more power to you. I see the industry starting to improve next year and as that happens we will see who is truly happy here and who is not. Everyone has to make their own decision whether FD is the place for them or not, but you should have the honest facts before formulating that decision. All of my friends that ask about FD, I tell them the truth and after they know the facts, none of them want to come here. I wouldn't quit your job and leave your home country to come here, but that is just my opinion. I might add as a pilot at FD, ex-xl's is getting some pretty accurate information so I wouldn't disregard his post.

NGFellow

Any FD folks--Wanted to know what areas are preferable to live--Arabian Ranches etc. Since you have to drive to work practically every day, how long is the commute.
What would be the best areas that are within 30 mins of the airport? Also anyone with kids in primary school what schools are they going to. How long did you have to wait. I hear JESS etc are great schools but expensive with a 3 year waiting list I know that they are tons of posts on schools etc, but I am just trying to get info on locations and schools being used currently.

doublesector

Been reading this for a while and decided its time to have a say…

I have been at FD for over a year and I’m sad to say I agree with much of what’s been posted above by Ex xl and a2k.

Sure there are worse, but during the past year I have witnessed the changes (as described above), and whilst there is a happy camp of mainly newcomers, there is underlying concern amongst pilots that things will not improve quickly, if at all. The usual suspects such as rostering, leave, decreasing T&C’s, Management and HR, are all playing their part in slowly making FD a less desirable place to work. The current issue for many is fatigue due to unintelligent rostering that combines early, day, and deep night flights all in the space of 5 days! None of this is helping morale.

FD may have a recruiting problem on its hands by the end of the year.

For first officers especially, the big question they have to ask is why come to FD? Emirates are looking for 700 pilots, have virtually the same recruitment process and offer a vastly better package. (I’m sure someone will oblige by posting the T&C’s for EK and FD on here for comparison.) We’ve all read the moans on pprune re EK, they appear much the same for any company in the ME. If the decision has been made to come to the ME as an F/O the choice would be clear. Do you sit in the RHS of a 777 for more money, or a RHS 737 for less?

Time to command at FD is not going to be quick either, despite the obvious need. Ask any F/O here that applied. Few met the criteria, I heard only 6 applied.
Command upgrades have been delayed, this can only mean more DEC’s. (Another morale booster!)

As a captain the choice is more complex, but an FD skipper nets about 10000Dhs more than an EK F/O, not inc the hidden benefits at EK (ie. discounts, staff travel, proper medical cover, etc) The jury is out on that option at the moment, but I know it’s being considered by some.

With 4 more aircraft scheduled to arrive this year, and 12 next year. The company is expanding alright, but unless some issues are addressed, 18 months down the line may see a big turnover of guys as the bonds expire. 3 capts and 2 f/o’s have already quit, even the Chief financial officer is on his way next month.

FD has great potential, brand new aircraft, plenty of routes and some great people. But I think they will need to up the ante with T&C’s and improve morale, to attract and retain both pilots and cabin crew in the future.

stealthone

Doublesector,
A friend of mine told me that FOs must have 1000 company and 5000 total hours in order to apply for an upgrade. It would take almost 16 months to accumulate 1000 hours. A lot of FO joined the company with around 3000 to 3500 total hours so the frustration is understandable.
I heard the word going around that FD is pushing DGCA to allow upgrades after 500 company hours and 4000 total.

fly2AK

There are a lot of rumors about upgrade and very little actual communication about it. If you require information here you have to dig for it most of the times and that seems to change daily. Most of the initial FO's that I know had well over 4,000 hours and some up to 11,000 hours. The ball buster will be if you have to have 1,000 with FD in order to meet the mins for upgrade. With and average of 55 hrs a month and 6 weeks vacation that is about 578 hours a year and that will take about 20 months before a first officer meets the mins for upgrade. I know some of you are thinking "well it would take longer at other places to upgrade" well the simple fact is this isn't other places and most chose to come here based off of assurances of good rosters, good pay and quick upgrade meaning better pay. Well, none of that is happening and while camp happy is small here and tends to be on the new arrivals most are not happy, but are still holding out hope for improvements but not holding their breath for it to happen. A lot of guys here are looking towards the future to find their way out. Those who have been here a year or longer have not seen improvements, rather a decline in the potential of a great place to work. There are many growing opportunities out there for pilots right now that would be far superior than coming to false hope. Many of us here continue to get emails, calls, and offers for positions elsewhere and I am sure within the next year many guys will seriously question why they are still here. FD will have difficulties in the near future finding guys to come here but as long as they are getting pilot's nothing will change. As one airline CEO has said, " I must be paying these guys too much, classes are still full" they were the lowest paid pilots in the industry. We are our worst enemy. If you choose to come here that is fine but it must be based on fact not fiction and coming here you have to except all the problems that go along with your decision. Keep your options open and talk to the guys that are working at you potential employer before you make a decision. Best of luck

standardboeing

If your thinking of coming here this is why EK is widely considered a better job.

More money – Flydubai has 2 pay scales. If you join now on the ‘B scale’ you’ll never get close to an EK FO, don’t expect to save any money. The rental market has dropped significantly but you’ll still have to spend all your money on the things mentioned below.

Better medical insurance. – If you or your family are sick then the dismal medical insurance will have to be used. This means paying out cash, filling out forms and hoping that you might receive some of the cash back (it also takes 4 weeks)

No Provident fund.

Schooling. EK has a debenture with some of the better schools in Dubai so you stand a better chance of getting your kids a place.

We’re all paying a $24000 bond for an airplane we could already fly!

Way better staff travel – Flydubai’s answer is a 3 day 3 stage trek around Dubai to end up with the worst grade EK standby ticket available.

Leave –Leave is done on seniority and rarely confirmed weeks ahead.

Rosters – A veritable nightmare suffice to say they are a mess and come out in the last few days of the month.

The chance to upgrade – No ones done it here and it’s all gone very quiet!

As previously mentioned, morale here at FD is at an all time low and the management continue to turn a blind eye. Given the choice most of the guys here would opt for EK, we all choose different companies for different reasons but don’t believe what your told in the interview. Flydubai has relied on the goodwill of a very experienced group of pilots to get it up and running successfully. Sadly whilst the management are keen to congratulate themselves and shout ‘good job’ they are soon to find a mass exodus of dejected unmotivated people who can only be replaced by pay to fly novices.

Flydubai is a stepping stone company or somewhere to wait and keep your hours going if you’ve lost your job. It is certainly NOT a career airline.

olster

Standard Boeing you forgot the ludicrous,unfair and disproportionate 'fines' for minor and unintentional infractions. These consist of being docked a days pay for such 'crimes' as not being quick enough to answer the phone.Subsequently ,the pay will disappear with no contact from management or rationale or hope of redress.That wasn't mentioned in the interview now was it? I have never known anything similar in any other company.The 'dickdance' around Dubai to purchase an N2 lowest priority ticket is also getting mega-tedious.There will be payback however, in the form of mass exodus -it's called karma.

standardboeing

I agree entirely olster.

Unfortunately the misguided fools in management seem to think karma is somewhere to buy a fake handbag and will only react once the pilot stampede starts.