doublesector

Olster,
I recently had the pleasure of flying with someone who was ‘fined’ a days pay for being deemed non contactable. The rationale behind such policy is difficult to understand.

For the benefit of potential FD recruits, as per flight ops policy manual, ‘Not contactable’ means not returning the call within five minutes…. yep, five minutes!

Standardboeing
You also forgot to mention the questionable crewing practices emerging and interesting interpretation of the FTL scheme within FD. Anyone with titanium gonads care to file a Rosi?

And don’t forget those weekly updates received from the top. Has anyone the foggiest idea what this weeks final poetic paragraph was all about?

Does anyone know if the end of service benefit can be taken before three years has elapsed ?

fly2AK

Guys have been fined for being sick on a day off and the more days your sick on off days the more days will be docked pay from your base pay. Lets not forget the guys who were called on a day off to come into work and were docked a days pay for not being available on a day OFF because they didn't answer their phones. The next year will be a trying year for most of us and I think next year FD will have a hard time staffing even half of their fleet do to the mass exudus that will probably happen. The attitude of this operation is like one I have never seen. Rosters are the worse I have ever seen and seem to be very vindictive the benifits are not great, the flying is little and at horrible hours, staff travel sucks, Dubai is very expensive so trying to save money if you have a family is difficult at best, safety department is a toll of intimidation, upgrades - well after they have determined the blood type of your 1st born they may consider letting you plea a case why you are worthy of being selected for upgrade and that movement has gotten very quiet and no one has upgraded yet. I honestly don't know anyone that is happy here and right now seem to be in a holding pattern waiting to get out and very few seem comfortable but I haven't met anyone that is actually happy other than managment. If you come here knowing the problems and concerns of those who are here at FD then you are just punishing yourself. If you have a job in your home country I would stay and not even think that this is an opportunity. The only opportunity you will have coming here is the opportunity of regret.

doublesector

These were mistakes, right?

How can you be fined a days pay for being sick or not being available on your day off ?

Don't even mention rosters. There is clearly an agenda in addition to crewing flights.

fly2AK

I am afraid not a few guys have had this happen to them and it was brought up to managments attention and it has been months and they have yet to see their money returned. I have also been told they won't get their money back. The abuse continues and the morale declines and anger starts to build. I see and work with a lot of angry people that are getting to their breaking point and probably won't last past 2011. As for the end of service benifit (EOSB) Well as I understand it you will get it after your first year of employment and it goes up for every year of service. Meaning when you leave as long as you were here a year you would get 21 days for each full year.

Voodoo 3

So management have shown that you can forget about having a day at the Wild Wadi, Ski dubai or even down the beach because if you and your phone are seperated by more than five minutes then you can expect a slap on the wrist and a fine too.

Outrageous attitudes and as has been suggested above, if they seriously expect to be able to expand at the rates that they do, ie, around 10 aircraft per year then they will have to stop these mental acts as it will put off many good quality pilots from applying and we may well be left with whats left. Yes, they may be able to fill the positions but will they be worthy candidates or the only ones that want to put up with this current attitude.

Might pop to a mall sometime and see if I can buy a waterproof case so I can take my phone into the shower with me.

Crewing 'Where were you, we called over five minutes ago to ask you to fly on your day off'

Employee 'I was in the shower'

Crewing 'Well you are on a day off but didn't call back. You will therefore be fined, have a nice day'. Click brrrrrrrrrrr!

I jest a little bit but that is how they make it feel.

V3

subbudhar777

Hey! Guys I have been following this thread for sometime now. I have a job offer from FD and suppose to joing in October 2010. I must say that the problems with rostering and the managment seem to be very discouraging for a chap like me who is on his way to join FD!!!!

Is there anything that is positive about FD??????????????????

Can someone flying for FD please throw some light on a typical months roster???
How many hours is DEC pulling in a month???

How many days do you get off in a week????

How long does it take to get the Resident Visa Processed for self and family?????

Thanks in advance. Any information about FD would be greatly appriceated

donwannafly

Bravo, signs despiration on FD!

menikos

Hello,

What is your experience ?

Thanks

doublesector

subbudar777, ( and other joiners)

Im sure all FD here will agree... here are some facts...

Expect between 50 and 90 hrs, anything between 4 short 1hr sectors, to 2 medium 5hr sectors. It is extremely variable.

Do not expect more than the legal minimum days off, 7 per month, if lucky you might get 8. Also expect to see some single days off.
Do not expect to be able to commute home on days off.


The company expects you to be contactable everyday between 1600 and 1800 for possible roster changes.
If not available you may be marked un contactable whereby you have a days pay docked from you salary.

Rosters are presently published about the 25th of the month, ie about 5 days in advance of next month.
They are presently not e mailed, but printed out for you to collect in person !

AIMS has introduced the ability of requesting 2 days off per month. We are still awaiting September's roster to see if it works !

Rostering here has been truly awful, no set patterns, constant swings from earlies, lates to nights all in the space of a few days.
Recent implementation of AIMS has brought new hope, but the current situation is expected to continue for sometime.


Annual Leave, bid by seniority. Place bids for whole year. Confirmation of the leave can be as little as a month before, making planning difficult.
Leave is taken in blocks of 7 days. no wrap around days. You cannot carry leave over into next year. There have been occassions of guys being forced to take leave when not requested.

Visa, normaly within two weeks of arrival for yourself. For family, its up to you. There is little or no help from the company for this, most however get everything done within a month or so. Keep the receipts, the company will refund family visa costs. (its UAE employment law)

On the positive side, there are many good people here, the aircraft are good, the company is is financialy sound, expanding fast.. and there is always the chance things will improve. There is a rumour of a pay review doing the rounds, if this proves to be true, this may well inject a desperately needed positive vibe amongst the hard working and tired crew.

Your situation is unique to you, much depends on what you want, or expect from the job.

The comparison drawn above with Emirates is accurate one, I would urge you to think carefully about your priorities before coming to FD.
Its true there will always be something to gripe about, but it's suprising how many folk here are weighing up the cost of the bond, vs a better lifestyle elsewhere.

subbudhar777

Thanx Doublesector the info u gave is I am sure highly appriceated by all of us guys either joining or planning to join FD.

Just had a last couple of questions...

You mentioned that it takes abt 2weeks to get your resident Visa processed is that the minimum time or if ur lucky you can get it a little earlier than dat???

Can we keep an additional loss of license insurance in addition to the one provided by FD??!!!

Do the guys in FD get a fixed Weekly Off day where they can keep there phones away for or switched off??? LoL

And for the info of the friend who wanted to knw my experience I have 7500TT and 3000 PIC on B-738w.

Happy landings to all of you there in d SKY...

Thanks again Doublesector

B787J

... No one said its going to be walk in the park ... i remember my interview and being told its not easy ... hang in there and yes things are not immaculate but they are getting better ... better rostering system in place... rents have dropped by about 50% ... plus its Dubai ... it is a LCC and should not be compared to EK /EY ... all the whiners if you are not happy then you should leave ... work for another airline that will go into administration .... i would say i personally like the environment and enjoy work its a fun place to be in ... n most of the people are genuine and enjoy what they do...

To all those looking to join flydubai i would say .. if you comehere with the right attitude you will enjoy it here ...

Flat Cap

If you pull your finger out and get your immgration medical done quickly as you can it is possible to get the visa in less that 2 weeks, I did.

According to the Flight Ops Policy Manual you have to be contactable 16-18 every day except on Days Off. How true this is or not or what happens in regular practice, I will leave for others comment.

Having additional loss of licence insurance is something between you and you insurer, no prohibitions I have seen or heard of.

Rgds
F-C

scoteros

It's a long time since I have been posting on this site but I had to say my word after what has been said about my company...

First of all you have to compare FlyDubai with other low cost airlines not with company flying long haul and first class passengers as Emirates...

I am here since the day one and if I have to admit that we are far from what we have been told when we joined "FlyDubai will be the Southwest of the Middle East" I can not accept all the bad things said about this company.

I am flying for more than 20 years and I must say that FlyDubai is certainly the best low cost airline to work for if I compare with what I have seen in Europe.

Everything is better than what was on offer in Europe , here we receive free food and drinks when we are on duty , we don't have to pay for our uniform and even free dry cleaning is available...
The salary ( depending on your pay scale A or B is between 14000 to 15500 USD per month tax free for captain ) is around twice the one I would get in Europe after tax in a low cost airline.

The roster is not nice at all , I agree but we don't fly 900 Hrs a year but we are only around 600 Hrs , which means more free time as we have also a lot of flights with an average of 3 Hrs per leg.

Also look what is on offer on the FlightGlobal website and maybe your are smarter than me BUT I could not find anything with better condition.

And last but not least , if it was so bad here and so nice everywhere else why are all my well experienced fellow pilots staying here ?????
Yes they are complaining yes they are talking about leaving But they are still here !!!!
So before taking your decision to join or not , read your contract , gather as much facts as you can and then make your own decision.

All I can say is that even if I am also disappointed by our management and I admit that we are far from being the Southwest of the Middle East , I still believe that it's the best job available on a B737 I can find now and I don't regret my decision to come here.

Good luck to all of you

Fata Morgana 909

Great stuff re FD some more if anyone has the energy to fill in the …. blanks!

You guys that are working there, do you see a will to improve things from the management regarding the roster and the other issues that seems to be out there?

I guess it could be considered normal not having the operation at its peak so early in the days.

Also what is the company culture like, can you compare it to other low cost carriers like Wizzair or Ryan etc?

Cheerio

doublesector

Scoteros in answer to your Question...

'" if it was so bad here and so nice everywhere else why are all my well experienced fellow pilots staying here ?????
Yes they are complaining yes they are talking about leaving But they are still here !!!! ""

Not everyone wants to do the 'ballistic bob' departure.

Consider the cost of leaving !

24000 USD Bond. (even those experienced type rated guys)
School fees, debentures etc.
6/12 month Tenancy agreements.
Selling up and moving from Dubai is not going to be straightforward or cheap.

Remember, its not just changing jobs, its uprooting the whole family to another country !

Once here, you need three years to make it worthwhile.
Though, I think we will see more leavers ( 5 so far) within the next 18 months.

On a positive note there are some encouraging rumours circulating that suggest some changes for the good are imminent.

scoteros

Maybe double sector , let's wait 3 years and see if your are right...
But I have seen this before in other companies and the people who really wanted to leave were leaving very quickly and the one complaining all the time were still there when I was leaving...

About the cost , first now after around one year for all of us the maximum to pay will be 24000-8000 = 16000 USD remaining. ( don't forget we are earning 15000 USD a month , so it's a month of salary only )

Second , most of us are flying for years and we should have some money saved for these situations...

Third , a lot of my fellows here are single or have been careful enough to leave their family home.

Fourth , you said yourself that 5 pilots left already so...it is possible if you think it is worth leaving...

And fifth , last but not least , one of our captain has been contacted by Emirates for a direct entry captain position and he is still here !!! he is not even interested in going there despite the fact that there will be no relocation needed...

But again I don't want to say I am right and you are wrong , I am just using my previous experience to tell you what will probably happen.

doublesector

You may be correct, lets hope so.
Regarding your observations,

Points 1&2 are based on willingness to pay a months salary back to your employer. For me its never been bad enough to want to leave that quicky !

point 3, may be the very reason they are thinking of leaving. It's not much of a life without family and/or the chance to see them often.

point 4, It was cheap for the guys that left !! They did a runner, or in one case the company actually paid for everything! I know one fellow that is working his notice, I can only assume he's paying back the bond.

point 5, I have asked EK HR and was told no plans to take DEC's.... at the moment. maybe thats changed. Each to their own.

Might I also add that Im not seeking to leave just yet, Im in the camp thats relatively happy waiting for some of the promises to materialise.

rgds

mave292

I dont normally write or reply to posts however at this stage I feel need to get my view across regarding FD. I am with FD a year now and I agree , things need to improve regarding rostering and sorting out the A and B payscale ,rumour going around atm that will happen in the not to distant future (fingers crossed). Once these issues are sorted I feel that this could be a great place to work. I have worked for BOTH the large low cost carriers in Europe and except for having a fixed roster , which by the way isnt much good if your not based at home as you could spend 2 days travelling to and from home(depending on where u are based) things are not much better. Brookfield contract, which is all you will get at Ryanair now is a pay as you fly situation, is that what you want? Yes the money is good before you sort out your tax and pension , and then spend another chunk of it on accommadation give you havent received your base of choice or home base. Easyjet, UK contract money not great either given the poor exchange rate to the Euro and then on a Euro contract the EXTRA money is going again on accommadation. FD offer a good package , you can see your family most days and they give you exactly what your contract states. The contract stated a 3 year bond , not ideal I admit for type rated crews but you knew about it , if you dont like it dont sign the contract. Some people will never be happy no matter what the deal is and they where more than likely unhappy at their previous airline, thats just pilots for you. Just look at the Emirates forums , alot of unhappy pilots there aswell. FD is as good a place to work as any other airline but like any other airline it has its faults but you do get what you sign up for which can go both ways depending on what you want or what your expections are ....

FZckntkawrap

I promised myself I would keep quiet and see if things improved over a 6 month period. It does not seem that things are improving, nor is there a desire from management to correct certain issues. Although the airline continues to grow, growth does not always mean improvement.

Rostering: Primary issue is the standby days that limit the amount of flying you can do in a month because they count against your total duty time. They also reduce your days off, which prevent you from swapping flights with other crew members. They give "lip service" to wanting crews to control their own schedules, but cram so much "fluff" into them that it is practically impossible to make any changes. As everyone else has said, leave is not awarded until the month before and it is highly unlikely this situation will change. It is run very shoe string around here, and the blame goes to the commerical/marketing department. The company is not able to publish a flight schedule and stay with it. It is almost as if they are throwing darts with a blindfold on and hoping for the best.......

AIMS is now building the schedules, but nobody really knows how many restrictions or limits have been imposed on the system. The rosters for August seemed a little better, but the September rosters appear to be going back to the oppressive nature of pre-AIMS rostering. Don't expect anymore than 7 days off and if you get more than 2 days off together be glad.

The widespread attitude towards the crews is one of general negativity. There is no desire to assist or be forward with information. However, your complete cooperation is expected at all times, including days off..... And HR policy can change on a case by case basis.

For some, yes this might be an improvement over a previous job. However most of the pilots at this airline are very experienced and came from good companies (yes, some had folded) with a wide variety of backgrounds. Instead of using the experience of the pilot group it seems some in flydubai are afraid of being shownup or perhaps are too set in their ways to try a different approach to resolving issues.....issues that occur at every airline and are easy to correct!

The health insurance is another issue that has not been addressed. It was changed with little notice that a 10% co-pay would be added. Also, according to the yanks/canuks they still do not have coverage when they are home unless it is life emergency. The dental portion does not cover basic cleanings and checkups, which is the only part most of us use!

For the people that are excited about free food...... The food here is terrible. It is usually several weeks old and has been sitting in a freezer. Some of the cabin crew, and even a few FO's I've flown with bring their own food! There have been at least 4 cases of crew food causing sick calls the next day, and that's just 4 that I've heard of these past few months.

Why not just leave? Most, including myself, are not willing to pay to leave a job. Most of us signed the bond in good faith that the company would listen to and correct issues as they arose. The company wanted us to be apart of the expansion and to help build a new company that would be the "Southwest of the Middle East" Unfortunately that has not been the case. The split pay scales have really put a divide in the pilot group. Just an opinion, but I doubt that the split will every fully go away. It is more likely that the B scale will be raised a small amount and the A scale will not see an increase for some time.

One positive thing: The employee lot has been opened up to ALL employees on a first come first served basis.

Wacked

Well despite what you all say it sounds a lot like most low fare setups these days but with nice new aircraft and good money. I have applied twice with 2 different emails( I was not current the first time and no way to update application), I have 9000 hours of which 8000 on 737s and havent heard a word. Is there any way to follow up an application, ie email address or phone number?