Aussie Businessmen set to sue Etihad
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I am sure that these girls on board have seen more than their fare share of tackle, yet pretend they are virgins from Mecca.
Facts of life and unfortunate as it maybe another tick in the box as far as these guys go, my view is that it will not end here.
To be continued....
Facts of life and unfortunate as it maybe another tick in the box as far as these guys go, my view is that it will not end here.
To be continued....
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Regardless of the "virtuous" lifestyle of the crew or not, the fact is these passengers allegedly refused safety instructions from the crew, exposed themselves to the crew and others etc etc...so why are we diverting attention away from the alleged facts of the case and making disparaging remarks about the crew, and the country in general.....
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Some facts are worth noting
saddlebrooks 
"EY has as much control over the AUH police as BA has over the UK police".
With all due respect, you are either new to the region (not virgin from Mecca) or you are not aware of the culture in AUH. Just like AirNoServicesAustralia said EY owners own the police as well, it is true. Find out who Dr Sheikh Ahmad is???
As for the question Who charged them with consuming alcohol without a license? The police or EY? the question should be why are they charged with drinking alcohol with out a licence instead of threatening and endangering the safety of the aircraft????
I hope for your sake you do not have an accident where you are sitting at the traffic light minding your own business waiting for the traffic light to change and someone bangs into you. He gets hospitilised out of his own stupidity. Why? Because for as long as he is in hospital you are in jail and that is no joke I guarantee you (this is the law in the UAE), and I am speaking from experience. And if you do not have WASTA well you are in the Slammer until he comes out. Oh, did I mention that your family or wife will have no clue as to your whereabouts until only few days later??
I really do not want to bore you with all this human rights issues that we take for granted in the civilised world.
Happy and safe flying to all
"EY has as much control over the AUH police as BA has over the UK police".
With all due respect, you are either new to the region (not virgin from Mecca) or you are not aware of the culture in AUH. Just like AirNoServicesAustralia said EY owners own the police as well, it is true. Find out who Dr Sheikh Ahmad is???
As for the question Who charged them with consuming alcohol without a license? The police or EY? the question should be why are they charged with drinking alcohol with out a licence instead of threatening and endangering the safety of the aircraft????
I hope for your sake you do not have an accident where you are sitting at the traffic light minding your own business waiting for the traffic light to change and someone bangs into you. He gets hospitilised out of his own stupidity. Why? Because for as long as he is in hospital you are in jail and that is no joke I guarantee you (this is the law in the UAE), and I am speaking from experience. And if you do not have WASTA well you are in the Slammer until he comes out. Oh, did I mention that your family or wife will have no clue as to your whereabouts until only few days later??
I really do not want to bore you with all this human rights issues that we take for granted in the civilised world.
Happy and safe flying to all
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Ironbutt, you never cease to amaze me with your ability to state the obvious and keep repeating adnauseum.
While safety is paramount it is not the tool to justify the authority of the crew over passengers, if it is then welcome to Syrian airlines or Iraqi airways, I doubt this is the image EY wants to project.
The manner in which crew brief passengers is of utmost importance and will in fact determine how passengers will interact with the crew, it is not because the crew lost their credibility with the passengers that they suddenly remember that they can nail them now using safety because it seems practical.
Throwing the book wont get you in their better books!
And remember it's a people's business! Not a police state.
While safety is paramount it is not the tool to justify the authority of the crew over passengers, if it is then welcome to Syrian airlines or Iraqi airways, I doubt this is the image EY wants to project.
The manner in which crew brief passengers is of utmost importance and will in fact determine how passengers will interact with the crew, it is not because the crew lost their credibility with the passengers that they suddenly remember that they can nail them now using safety because it seems practical.
Throwing the book wont get you in their better books!
And remember it's a people's business! Not a police state.
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Those Aussies are f@#$wits!!! And they have a f&^%wit lawyer too!!!
Lawyer: "Your Honor, my client wants to sue the airline. They maliciously prosecuted my clients!"
Judge: "The airline brought criminal charges against your clients?"
Lawyer: "Yes Your Honor. They also put them in a jail for a month and only gave them camels to eat!"
Judge: "The airline put them in jail?"
Lawyer: "Yes Your Honor. And the biggest crime was that my client were served warm champagne!"
Judge: "Yes, you have a case. We need to show those "less fortunate" people that they shouldn't mess with us. In fact, you win!"
Get over it guys. Governments deal with criminals in any way they see fit. Not all governments are angels but the Aussies are going to have a hard time convincing the courts that the airline had such overwhelming control over the government that the government was obliged to listen to them.
If the government could "assist" Etihad in this manner, what would stop them from "assisting" any other airline that was facing the same predicament? Being thrown in jail awaiting trail is nothing new, too bad for the guys it was summer.
Lawyer: "Your Honor, my client wants to sue the airline. They maliciously prosecuted my clients!"
Judge: "The airline brought criminal charges against your clients?"
Lawyer: "Yes Your Honor. They also put them in a jail for a month and only gave them camels to eat!"
Judge: "The airline put them in jail?"
Lawyer: "Yes Your Honor. And the biggest crime was that my client were served warm champagne!"
Judge: "Yes, you have a case. We need to show those "less fortunate" people that they shouldn't mess with us. In fact, you win!"
Get over it guys. Governments deal with criminals in any way they see fit. Not all governments are angels but the Aussies are going to have a hard time convincing the courts that the airline had such overwhelming control over the government that the government was obliged to listen to them.
If the government could "assist" Etihad in this manner, what would stop them from "assisting" any other airline that was facing the same predicament? Being thrown in jail awaiting trail is nothing new, too bad for the guys it was summer.
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Perhaps the rocket scientists among us who know UAE aviation law can answer this. Is it actually against the UAE law to threaten the safety of an aircraft? Sounds obvious but I know the law against smoking on an a/c has been sitting in some in-tray for years now. This might explain the charges that were made against the trio.
Smooze sailor, the legal action against EY would have more to do with damage control by the three than getting "justice". If they went back to Oz and did nothing they would look very guilty. I would think there will be a lot of noise but in the end nothing will come of it...except unwanted PR.
Smooze sailor, the legal action against EY would have more to do with damage control by the three than getting "justice". If they went back to Oz and did nothing they would look very guilty. I would think there will be a lot of noise but in the end nothing will come of it...except unwanted PR.
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concerned
Hello Everyone:
I’ve been following the discussion on this thread and while I don’t want to comment on the actual incident that is being discussed, I did want to sound off on something I noticed in some of the posts and that is, a rather disturbing tendency to label people based on their nationality. Stereotypes, you see, are just never fair at all no matter how much “truth” they may be rooted-in, and no matter how prevalent they may be, because there will always be a diversity in attitudes, thoughts, etc. within people who are otherwise united by certain nationality. Therefore, a stereotype would never do justice to the minority (or majority) who may not fit in it. No matter how tempting it might be to think otherwise, a person’s nationality or status should never be a factor by which this person’s attitudes or mentalities are measured. You can get all kinds of mentalities or attitudes within any given nationality, it something strictly individual.
Of course, in the end of the day I believe in people’s freedom to have their own opinions, but I have always enjoyed Pprune as a forum for those of us in the industry to share thoughts and knowledge in an environment of openness, empathy and professionalism, and I hate to see such a beautiful thing be tainted by what may be unfair or biased rhetoric. After all Pprune is what we as users make it.
Just my 2 cents…
I’ve been following the discussion on this thread and while I don’t want to comment on the actual incident that is being discussed, I did want to sound off on something I noticed in some of the posts and that is, a rather disturbing tendency to label people based on their nationality. Stereotypes, you see, are just never fair at all no matter how much “truth” they may be rooted-in, and no matter how prevalent they may be, because there will always be a diversity in attitudes, thoughts, etc. within people who are otherwise united by certain nationality. Therefore, a stereotype would never do justice to the minority (or majority) who may not fit in it. No matter how tempting it might be to think otherwise, a person’s nationality or status should never be a factor by which this person’s attitudes or mentalities are measured. You can get all kinds of mentalities or attitudes within any given nationality, it something strictly individual.
Of course, in the end of the day I believe in people’s freedom to have their own opinions, but I have always enjoyed Pprune as a forum for those of us in the industry to share thoughts and knowledge in an environment of openness, empathy and professionalism, and I hate to see such a beautiful thing be tainted by what may be unfair or biased rhetoric. After all Pprune is what we as users make it.
Just my 2 cents…
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Guys,
First I knew of the whole thing came from watching Ozzie news while recovering from an overnight from s/e asia.
From my perspective the point of the whole thing, totally disregarding who did what to whom, who said what to which and what was ingested/digested or regurgitated, is what the consequences will be for EY.
As impartial as I can be to the situation, I can say with authority after spending the last couple of days here in godzone, watching the entire HUGE media blowup, talking to friends etc: that EY has done themselves and the UAE a lot of damage with the Australian people!
Spin doctors in please! And not just from EY. This may impact all the regions carriers.
First I knew of the whole thing came from watching Ozzie news while recovering from an overnight from s/e asia.
From my perspective the point of the whole thing, totally disregarding who did what to whom, who said what to which and what was ingested/digested or regurgitated, is what the consequences will be for EY.
As impartial as I can be to the situation, I can say with authority after spending the last couple of days here in godzone, watching the entire HUGE media blowup, talking to friends etc: that EY has done themselves and the UAE a lot of damage with the Australian people!
Spin doctors in please! And not just from EY. This may impact all the regions carriers.
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As for the question Who charged them with consuming alcohol without a license? The police or EY? the question should be why are they charged with drinking alcohol with out a licence instead of threatening and endangering the safety of the aircraft????
You are all talking about how much the UAE lives in hypocrisy and then you imply the chairman could have put his foot down to stop it
and/or he controls the police.Yes I am sure he ordered the police to charge these 3 with drinking without a license.
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confused
saddlebrooks, "Because EY never pressed any charges against the 3 I would imagine".
Iam sorry but Im just a little confused, How did these three men end up in police custody if nobody from EY complained to the police about them?? also somebody from EY would have been present in court to backup these charges I would imagine.otherwise how would the police know what to charge them with or what they did??
Happy and safe flying to all
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Police and/or security attend to nearly half of disruptive passenger incidents, often the crew and/or airline is not notified if further action is taken by the authorities.
When a Capt. requests police/security assistance upon landing he is not placing charges against the accused of anything, the Capt. is only requesting assistance with a disruptive passenger.
This practice is not exclusive to the UAE it is in reality fairly standard worldwide.
When a Capt. requests police/security assistance upon landing he is not placing charges against the accused of anything, the Capt. is only requesting assistance with a disruptive passenger.
This practice is not exclusive to the UAE it is in reality fairly standard worldwide.
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At the end of the day I think this incident will serve as a message to most westerners to think long and hard about the way they act in and around the Middle East.
I have been travelling from Oz to the UAE for several years now and have watched the progressive decline in respect for the local culture and law - it was only a matter of time before something like this went over the top.
As far as the liquor laws go - they are unfortunately 'fluid'. The law might say you cannot drink at a hotel unless you are a guest but we all know that is garbage. Indeed, at the Airport Expo in DXB last week there was more beer and champagne flowing than at the Melbourne Cup, without any bother.
The UAE is now becoming the 'flavour of the month' for westerners as it is now seen as accessible and the 'cool' place to visit. Unfortunately, many westerners are more interested in whether it's a 'safe' place or not. Once they know it is, they just barge n in without any due diligence. On my visit last week, I took it upon myself to caution a lovely young Aussie girl that her shorts were, well, SHORT and she would be well advised to put something on before venturing out into the streets unless she wanted to get abused or spat at (it still happens).
The message is simple - Be careful, know and respect the law, and show respect for the locals and their culture. I always do and it's never got me into any trouble.
I have been travelling from Oz to the UAE for several years now and have watched the progressive decline in respect for the local culture and law - it was only a matter of time before something like this went over the top.
As far as the liquor laws go - they are unfortunately 'fluid'. The law might say you cannot drink at a hotel unless you are a guest but we all know that is garbage. Indeed, at the Airport Expo in DXB last week there was more beer and champagne flowing than at the Melbourne Cup, without any bother.
The UAE is now becoming the 'flavour of the month' for westerners as it is now seen as accessible and the 'cool' place to visit. Unfortunately, many westerners are more interested in whether it's a 'safe' place or not. Once they know it is, they just barge n in without any due diligence. On my visit last week, I took it upon myself to caution a lovely young Aussie girl that her shorts were, well, SHORT and she would be well advised to put something on before venturing out into the streets unless she wanted to get abused or spat at (it still happens).
The message is simple - Be careful, know and respect the law, and show respect for the locals and their culture. I always do and it's never got me into any trouble.
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Dave...
On the same note, the investment and marketing product this region is trying to push is aimed directly at overseas cultures. The fact is, a place like Dubai has realized early that 6-10% of its GDP in oil production will not sustain its future, so they must diversify...and it is being done!
Based on this, they have to play our game...sorry simple as that. Take the good with the bad, that is business.
No more Mr. Nice Guy....this is all part of the global economics. Why do you think the IMF and the WTO are having so much grief here, the locals are trying to enjoy the best of both worlds. It simply won't work...this is 2007.
Based on this, they have to play our game...sorry simple as that. Take the good with the bad, that is business.
No more Mr. Nice Guy....this is all part of the global economics. Why do you think the IMF and the WTO are having so much grief here, the locals are trying to enjoy the best of both worlds. It simply won't work...this is 2007.
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Stu
Stu, I accept and respect your point of view but these guys don't have to and shouldn't have to accept anything that disrespects anyone's fundamental beliefs - even in the name of business.
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But Dave as Fox said (this is PPRUNE so I don't know who this Stu is 
) if you want the fire you will have to put up with the smoke. If you want the tourists as Abu Dhabi and especially Dubai want, then you need to provide them access to alcohol. If you provide them access to alcohol don't be surprised if some over indulge. I will say again to those that obviously can't read that I don't condone for a moment the way these guys acted. I just worry about the precedent set by charging these guys with drinking without a license when they are not residents and so could never possess a license.
Dave I do agree with the lack of respect for local values here, as evidenced by the abundance of mini skirts and cleavage every time I visit the malls in Dubai. It's so disgusting I have to revisit at least weekly to confirm for myself this disgusting practice is continuing
But seriously it is a problem when you even see a local girl with the face fully covered but the Abaya open down the front revealing a spectacular lacy black bra number and some pretty impressive cleavage, at the local Starbucks 
I think the UAE is confused itself on who it wants to be. It ideally wants to stay traditional in its culture and behaviour, but needs the foreign investment to help it diversify away from reliance on oil income, and with the foreign investment comes some of the problems from the West, ie. Drunkeness, crime etc. They either choose to shut the place off and become another Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, or take the bad with the good and try and make the best of it. If they do the latter then they need to at least get some consistency in their laws and realise that if you allow drinking you allow what comes from that drinking (to a reasonable degree, as has been pointed out absolute drunkeness is a crime everywhere not just here). The days of letting a man drink and then arresting him for having booze on his breath are gone. The days of defining drink driving as having any alcohol in someones system is gone, bring in .05.
) if you want the fire you will have to put up with the smoke. If you want the tourists as Abu Dhabi and especially Dubai want, then you need to provide them access to alcohol. If you provide them access to alcohol don't be surprised if some over indulge. I will say again to those that obviously can't read that I don't condone for a moment the way these guys acted. I just worry about the precedent set by charging these guys with drinking without a license when they are not residents and so could never possess a license.Dave I do agree with the lack of respect for local values here, as evidenced by the abundance of mini skirts and cleavage every time I visit the malls in Dubai. It's so disgusting I have to revisit at least weekly to confirm for myself this disgusting practice is continuing
But seriously it is a problem when you even see a local girl with the face fully covered but the Abaya open down the front revealing a spectacular lacy black bra number and some pretty impressive cleavage, at the local Starbucks I think the UAE is confused itself on who it wants to be. It ideally wants to stay traditional in its culture and behaviour, but needs the foreign investment to help it diversify away from reliance on oil income, and with the foreign investment comes some of the problems from the West, ie. Drunkeness, crime etc. They either choose to shut the place off and become another Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, or take the bad with the good and try and make the best of it. If they do the latter then they need to at least get some consistency in their laws and realise that if you allow drinking you allow what comes from that drinking (to a reasonable degree, as has been pointed out absolute drunkeness is a crime everywhere not just here). The days of letting a man drink and then arresting him for having booze on his breath are gone. The days of defining drink driving as having any alcohol in someones system is gone, bring in .05.
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bluesfan
Your contributions, on this and on other threads, are very welcome. If only more locals would share your views, such incidents would hardly happen no more.
Biased views are omnipresent, but they get consolidated when enduring biased treatment or blatantly transparent double standards. The sad truth in this region is, that the local population seems to uphold this and find it absolutely justified. Although the same people when traveling or doing business abroad cry very distinctly for equal treatment. If the shameful actors had been locals, do you think they would have spent only one moment in jail? As a player on the international scene, you have to adopt international values. I acknowledge this might be a rubber standard, but most of the civilized world works just fine with that. In the USA they established biased rules to enhance national security. Such discrimination gets bashed all around the world, and rightfully so. Now another region gets bashed for some other biased treatment, rightfully again. Slowly established “soft rules” around the world do not accept unruly behavior on board of airlines. They however accept drinking alcohol. If this is not to be tolerated in some parts of the world, so be it, but then accept that they do not deserve to be considered part of the civilized international community and that the media will pick this up just as they pick up the dismal US immigration attitude.
If you want to eliminate prejudice and stigmatisms, the easiest way is to treat everybody the same, apply the same rules, standards and contracts to everyone.
Not only for passengers, but for employees as well.
Your contributions, on this and on other threads, are very welcome. If only more locals would share your views, such incidents would hardly happen no more.
Biased views are omnipresent, but they get consolidated when enduring biased treatment or blatantly transparent double standards. The sad truth in this region is, that the local population seems to uphold this and find it absolutely justified. Although the same people when traveling or doing business abroad cry very distinctly for equal treatment. If the shameful actors had been locals, do you think they would have spent only one moment in jail? As a player on the international scene, you have to adopt international values. I acknowledge this might be a rubber standard, but most of the civilized world works just fine with that. In the USA they established biased rules to enhance national security. Such discrimination gets bashed all around the world, and rightfully so. Now another region gets bashed for some other biased treatment, rightfully again. Slowly established “soft rules” around the world do not accept unruly behavior on board of airlines. They however accept drinking alcohol. If this is not to be tolerated in some parts of the world, so be it, but then accept that they do not deserve to be considered part of the civilized international community and that the media will pick this up just as they pick up the dismal US immigration attitude.
If you want to eliminate prejudice and stigmatisms, the easiest way is to treat everybody the same, apply the same rules, standards and contracts to everyone.
Not only for passengers, but for employees as well.
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ANSA - well put, have to agree with you.
This sort of realization - that the world will not play by your rules, but that you have to play by their rules, is what is known as 'growing up'.
Unfortunately, if my kids were anything to judge it by, adolescence is a messy, tantrum filled, stressful business.
If you choose to live in a country governed by angst-ridden adolescents, then you better learn patience.
This sort of realization - that the world will not play by your rules, but that you have to play by their rules, is what is known as 'growing up'.
Unfortunately, if my kids were anything to judge it by, adolescence is a messy, tantrum filled, stressful business.
If you choose to live in a country governed by angst-ridden adolescents, then you better learn patience.