Emirates - New Conditions
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Join Date: Aug 2005
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New Ek Pay Conditions
I agree that it is better than nothing, but, I must stress that this increase is PART of the pay that EK took away from it's pilots. About 18 montns back. pilots were given a months notice of the change with an "attitude of take it or leave" So be advised that things change at EK without notice, but pilots are required to give 3 months notice for resigning.
Inflation in Dubai is skyrocketting every year, the yearly 3% EK increment increase is insuficient, particularly when last week the Dubai Goverment raised salaries between 40 - 80%!!!
EK also need to address rosters and layover time. At the moment one flies during the day to a European destination then returns after 24 hours. How is it possible to have 2x 8 hr sleeps in a 24 hour!!! 8+8=16. 24-16=8!! After arriving to Dubai you are then sent off on a graveyard 3am flight to the sub-continent or even worse to Japan!! Again on a minimum layover. This continues non-stop to 900 hours a year. No wonder pilots are sick, fatigued and leaving. They have to reduce the yearly hours on LONG-HAUL flying to 750.
Flight Ops managers are not aware of the flying culture that exixts at EK. So if the left does not know what the right is doing then you have a guess.
Safe landings.
Inflation in Dubai is skyrocketting every year, the yearly 3% EK increment increase is insuficient, particularly when last week the Dubai Goverment raised salaries between 40 - 80%!!!
EK also need to address rosters and layover time. At the moment one flies during the day to a European destination then returns after 24 hours. How is it possible to have 2x 8 hr sleeps in a 24 hour!!! 8+8=16. 24-16=8!! After arriving to Dubai you are then sent off on a graveyard 3am flight to the sub-continent or even worse to Japan!! Again on a minimum layover. This continues non-stop to 900 hours a year. No wonder pilots are sick, fatigued and leaving. They have to reduce the yearly hours on LONG-HAUL flying to 750.
Flight Ops managers are not aware of the flying culture that exixts at EK. So if the left does not know what the right is doing then you have a guess.
Safe landings.
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Kawasaki 787
Apparently, he got a grade 3 on his last line check as well!!! Yet he has the guts to give a hard time to others!!!
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FZ is a w****r he destroyed somebodys career just to show off when GN departed, he thinks he knows more than the psycologist and told one guy he is not fit to be in command for psychological reasons even the shrink said he is more than ok.
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Goretex
We all use the protection of anonymity that this forum provides. Most of us do so to avoid any possible degree of vindictive response, typically because of our geographic location.
Unsubstantiated personal attacks that name an individual do not do enhance our collective professional reputation and personally I see it to be a classic case of "the pot calling the kettle black".
My post questions the ethics of identifying an individual, name calling and general "slagging" all from the sanctity of an unidentified user name. Ethically it would be in the same category as the so called perpertrator.
Unsubstantiated personal attacks that name an individual do not do enhance our collective professional reputation and personally I see it to be a classic case of "the pot calling the kettle black".
My post questions the ethics of identifying an individual, name calling and general "slagging" all from the sanctity of an unidentified user name. Ethically it would be in the same category as the so called perpertrator.
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I agree with Warlock,
I will be OK doing 3 JFKs per month and then bugging off..... or 3 SYDs, or 3 MELs, or 4 Japans or chinas or Koreas... etc
That way you family guys can stay at home in DXB all the time and do the short turn-arounds.....
maybe it's time the fleets were split, i.e., A330.... and A340.... I keep having to do recency simulators every 90 days to keep legal on the 330 anyway.. not too cost efficient, me thinks...
I will be OK doing 3 JFKs per month and then bugging off..... or 3 SYDs, or 3 MELs, or 4 Japans or chinas or Koreas... etc
That way you family guys can stay at home in DXB all the time and do the short turn-arounds.....
maybe it's time the fleets were split, i.e., A330.... and A340.... I keep having to do recency simulators every 90 days to keep legal on the 330 anyway.. not too cost efficient, me thinks...
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Capt America to the rescue
Aiming Point, like your post. Stright seniority would be a great idea.
Let's look at the Pro's:
Cost Neutral! In fact no action required from the company at all.
Will retain the senior skippers - who cost about AED 1M to replace - figure from HR not my imagination.
New guys will do about three months on RSV, then never see that mess gain - the expansion will take care of that.
FM - don't think it will bother anyone who is here now, in the long term. We are suppose to triple in size remember. Everyone will be in in the top third of list.
And the Con's:
It will inconvenience DECs.
Oh well, that's it then. Long Haul Ed and Capt. America will make sure it never happens.
Let's look at the Pro's:
Cost Neutral! In fact no action required from the company at all.
Will retain the senior skippers - who cost about AED 1M to replace - figure from HR not my imagination.
New guys will do about three months on RSV, then never see that mess gain - the expansion will take care of that.
FM - don't think it will bother anyone who is here now, in the long term. We are suppose to triple in size remember. Everyone will be in in the top third of list.
And the Con's:
It will inconvenience DECs.
Oh well, that's it then. Long Haul Ed and Capt. America will make sure it never happens.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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From the horses mouth...
Standards meeting 22nd:
After Ed complimented everyone for their hard work/commitment which was directly responsible for the high standards at EK, he continued to tell us that the reason the pay rise was not implimented in Jan was that it was not in the 06/07 budget and would therefore effect everyones profit share adversely... so in effect the pilots would get the blame for a poor share throughout The Group... I kid you not.
His underwhelming speech fell on the stoney ground of a demoralised, could give a s**t audience which has heard it all before...except the budget bit, that was rich.
It got worse through the day as we were told that it was patently obvious that we are cronically short of trainers and pilots and that May/June should see the problem parking aircraft. Out sourcing of training (at much greater cost to the company) is actively being pursued to help deal with the situation with several agencies that were contacted unable to help due to high workloads themselves (BA, Althoen, Boeing). (I wonder if this was in the 06/07 budget).
Apparently the 'senior management' have been approached by our immediate managers in an attempt to communicate the problems but the impression I got was that 'NOTHING' is being done about it.
More resignations, lower standards of new recruits/DECs was also communicated...
EK is in crisis. The pilots know it, the training department know it, anyone around an EK aircraft knows it, but it still fails to penetrate the thick padded walls of those responsible for the situation in the first place...
After Ed complimented everyone for their hard work/commitment which was directly responsible for the high standards at EK, he continued to tell us that the reason the pay rise was not implimented in Jan was that it was not in the 06/07 budget and would therefore effect everyones profit share adversely... so in effect the pilots would get the blame for a poor share throughout The Group... I kid you not.
His underwhelming speech fell on the stoney ground of a demoralised, could give a s**t audience which has heard it all before...except the budget bit, that was rich.
It got worse through the day as we were told that it was patently obvious that we are cronically short of trainers and pilots and that May/June should see the problem parking aircraft. Out sourcing of training (at much greater cost to the company) is actively being pursued to help deal with the situation with several agencies that were contacted unable to help due to high workloads themselves (BA, Althoen, Boeing). (I wonder if this was in the 06/07 budget).
Apparently the 'senior management' have been approached by our immediate managers in an attempt to communicate the problems but the impression I got was that 'NOTHING' is being done about it.
More resignations, lower standards of new recruits/DECs was also communicated...
EK is in crisis. The pilots know it, the training department know it, anyone around an EK aircraft knows it, but it still fails to penetrate the thick padded walls of those responsible for the situation in the first place...
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What was the response to your request for training pay; it is something I have also considered and am in the same (stinking leaking) boat that you are. Wait...let me guess...NO RESPONSE? That is the normal one we get when "they" dont like the question.
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Fleet Facts @ EK
Ever had a day when you thought that maybe things are not so bad at EK after all? I had one recently, but it didn't last long.
I just logged onto Fleet Facts for Jan and attempted to digest the patronising twaddle written by Ed (a self confessed non expert) about Cabin Crew Briefings by Flight Deck crew. I've been very happy with the 3 minute rule, but now find that I'm expected to spend up to 10 minutes 'building bridges' and not looking at my shoes. Guess this is why the pick up times have been brought forward.
But this is as nothing compared to the unattributed spiel (Al?) further down the page about Sim duties when hitting 900 hours. This policy is criminal, in the same way that factoring was criminal, 10 sim duties, whether day or night, in a month legally required for recuperation after exceeding the 900 hour FTL is morally reprehensible.
Fleet Facts; a stomach churning cure all for outbreaks of improving morale.
I just logged onto Fleet Facts for Jan and attempted to digest the patronising twaddle written by Ed (a self confessed non expert) about Cabin Crew Briefings by Flight Deck crew. I've been very happy with the 3 minute rule, but now find that I'm expected to spend up to 10 minutes 'building bridges' and not looking at my shoes. Guess this is why the pick up times have been brought forward.
But this is as nothing compared to the unattributed spiel (Al?) further down the page about Sim duties when hitting 900 hours. This policy is criminal, in the same way that factoring was criminal, 10 sim duties, whether day or night, in a month legally required for recuperation after exceeding the 900 hour FTL is morally reprehensible.
Fleet Facts; a stomach churning cure all for outbreaks of improving morale.
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Do captains make less money in flying hours than cabin crew?. Impossible
However the new hourly pay is a fiddle to get around giving us a proper pay rise that has an erp, profit share and pensionable aspect to it. It is just another cynical effort by our management and the bean counters to pretend they are giving us something significant, when they are plainly not.
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same tune differnt key
Hey Marooned Would have been a bit close to the bone for Edd to admit that Management really dont want their profit share diluted in way shape or form what so ever.
Why do we here the same tune evry year but just in a different key ....geeze they have started early this time around, must be a dung pile full of money waiting to be distributed as profit share for Miss Management.
What about the Oil price which has dropped so much which they budgeted for long with the huge revenues from the increase in Foreign Currencies against the UAE Dirham...mmm guess its easier to blame the pilots
Nice One Edd
Why do we here the same tune evry year but just in a different key ....geeze they have started early this time around, must be a dung pile full of money waiting to be distributed as profit share for Miss Management.
What about the Oil price which has dropped so much which they budgeted for long with the huge revenues from the increase in Foreign Currencies against the UAE Dirham...mmm guess its easier to blame the pilots
Nice One Edd
After Ed complimented everyone for their hard work/commitment which was directly responsible for the high standards at EK, he continued to tell us that the reason the pay rise was not implimented in Jan was that it was not in the 06/07 budget and would therefore effect everyones profit share adversely... so in effect the pilots would get the blame for a poor share throughout The Group... I kid you not.
Last edited by uplock; 25th Jan 2007 at 03:54. Reason: correct formatting
'Kin funny! Nice one
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Agreed Uplock...
To recap: They announce a reviewed pay package which I assume was to stop pilots leaving out the back door and attract more through the front.
Since the announcement: The pay package has been deferred until May (because Ed didn't have the authority in the first place to suggest it would be implimented in January as the 06/07 budget didn't foresee any requirement to attract or keep pilots). When finally implimented in May (perhaps) I assume it will effectively be frozen for the next financial year as the 07/08 budget constraints will again ignore crewing levels and attrition rates.
In addition to the current attempt to keep pilots:
Almost forgot... jump seat blocked again (TCs decision no doubt).
And the fiddle keeps on playing in EKHQ...
To recap: They announce a reviewed pay package which I assume was to stop pilots leaving out the back door and attract more through the front.
Since the announcement: The pay package has been deferred until May (because Ed didn't have the authority in the first place to suggest it would be implimented in January as the 06/07 budget didn't foresee any requirement to attract or keep pilots). When finally implimented in May (perhaps) I assume it will effectively be frozen for the next financial year as the 07/08 budget constraints will again ignore crewing levels and attrition rates.
In addition to the current attempt to keep pilots:
- Duty time has increased, not the virtual one that EK submits to the GCAA, but the actual duty we do on a daily basis in crew transport and post trip.
- Ground school has been offloaded into our free time and will be extended as it 'has been a success' according to 777 Cheif Pilot (as it prevented aircraft being grounded due to 1000s of pilot hours being released for line work). This alone could have funded the payrise.
- Company required visas to be done on our days off.
- If you do work hard and exceed 900 hours, you will be required to do simulator duties.
- In the meantime the airline is unsuccessfully seeking training outside of the company due to the cronic lack of capacity within (not budgeted) as insufficient numbers of EK pilots have applied to become trainers as you can earn more as a line pilot. (I assume this extra cost was not in the 06/07 budget, which will cost the company 2 to 3 times more than keeping training in-house). Regardless this outsourcing will still not prevent aircraft parking very soon.
Almost forgot... jump seat blocked again (TCs decision no doubt).
And the fiddle keeps on playing in EKHQ...
Last edited by Marooned; 25th Jan 2007 at 16:44.
Not to worry Montencee, I believe this SIM when you've done your 900hr scam is another way to encourage people to fly on their days off. It would seem to be as well thought out as most other decisions around here.
Don
Don