Jetstar advertising for drivers in the Middle East
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: charleroi
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it too early to rate the Jetstar recruitment drive as a moderate success? Seems to compare favourably with EKs recruiting roadshows in the US, UK and Oz (wasn't Oz cancelled due lack of interest?).
Names I've heard mentioned that are expected to appear on the RG list soon are all in the high increment 10-15 year seniority group.
Of course the bean counters/pen pushers will love this. Unloading a significant number of high earners in short order. Back in the 90s TCLARK proposed getting rid of all the 12+ year guys because they cost too much. The HFO (less spineless than the present incumbent) put him straight.
The further delay to the arrival of the 380 will give EK time to catch up on recruitment (South America still not exhausted as a source of non English speaking pilots).
Bottom line? No likely improvements to the EK package in the foreseeable future.
Names I've heard mentioned that are expected to appear on the RG list soon are all in the high increment 10-15 year seniority group.
Of course the bean counters/pen pushers will love this. Unloading a significant number of high earners in short order. Back in the 90s TCLARK proposed getting rid of all the 12+ year guys because they cost too much. The HFO (less spineless than the present incumbent) put him straight.
The further delay to the arrival of the 380 will give EK time to catch up on recruitment (South America still not exhausted as a source of non English speaking pilots).
Bottom line? No likely improvements to the EK package in the foreseeable future.
EK: Jetstar Leavers Update
Well don't worry Mr ED will find another 16 DECS to cover..Good ol' Uncle Sam....
Talking of DECS wonder how many penciled in for the next few months will decide to stay at home....at least a few I'd wager...
Talking of DECS wonder how many penciled in for the next few months will decide to stay at home....at least a few I'd wager...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: in a house
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Off to Jet*????
Anyone who's actually taken the plunge to JQ wonna send me a private msg? I've just been offered a job and sent a contract with a few surprises that weren't covered in the eba or interview.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 60
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
badhairday
Why the mystery!
Why not just tell us all what you are prepared to do and accept in order to return to OZ.
I'm sorry guys but, the conditions and money that you are selling out for can only hurt us and your collegues back in Oz in the long run.
Anybody with hopes of overseas bases in EK can look forward to a lot less money and worse conditions than we have now. Cheers.
EK will look at the money and conditions and factor it into what we get paid now, and guess What? WE get less money as well!
How on earth did you get the idea that you could use those contracts to bargain with HR and EK? I'm leaving for a job that will pay me half the money and worse conditions but I'll stay if you pay me more!!! Get real, it's so crazy that it will never compute with them. AS far as your new collegues go in Qantas you are the next best thing along from a scab. Your actions in accepting such a contract has set back pay and conditions for Pilots in OZ dramatically.
Good luck to you all, thanks and cheers.
Every man for himself blah blah blah
Why not just tell us all what you are prepared to do and accept in order to return to OZ.
I'm sorry guys but, the conditions and money that you are selling out for can only hurt us and your collegues back in Oz in the long run.
Anybody with hopes of overseas bases in EK can look forward to a lot less money and worse conditions than we have now. Cheers.
EK will look at the money and conditions and factor it into what we get paid now, and guess What? WE get less money as well!
How on earth did you get the idea that you could use those contracts to bargain with HR and EK? I'm leaving for a job that will pay me half the money and worse conditions but I'll stay if you pay me more!!! Get real, it's so crazy that it will never compute with them. AS far as your new collegues go in Qantas you are the next best thing along from a scab. Your actions in accepting such a contract has set back pay and conditions for Pilots in OZ dramatically.
Good luck to you all, thanks and cheers.
Every man for himself blah blah blah
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 60
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well actually, if you include training allowance, accomodation and school fees Ek pay well over 600,000, depending how long you have been here. Factor in some over-time and bonus money and you're over 700,000.
when you deduct Tax from the 400,000 aed mentioned for Jet star you won't get much more than 270,000 aed.
To make the same money as we get in EK you would have to be paid something around 1,200,000 aed or about 900,000 aed with no kids. 49 cents in every dollar tax (over90k), plus gst, plus medicare, plus compulsory super contributions, is going to hurt bigtime.
I wouldn't do it even for the QF A330 money, which is also considerably less than what I'm being paid at the moment.
But don't let me spoil the party. When you have had enough of the Gulf I guess it just doesn't matter, you want to go, then good luck.
I think that after a few months the novelty of being back in OZ would not compensate for the pityfull conditions, lack of money and stress of working for such a bunch of miserable pr-cks.
I suppose you could always come back as a DEC if you don't slam to many doors on your way out.
Note:
All of the above guesstimates were based on actual pay statements, no calculators were used at any time and the exact accuracy can not be guaranteed.
when you deduct Tax from the 400,000 aed mentioned for Jet star you won't get much more than 270,000 aed.
To make the same money as we get in EK you would have to be paid something around 1,200,000 aed or about 900,000 aed with no kids. 49 cents in every dollar tax (over90k), plus gst, plus medicare, plus compulsory super contributions, is going to hurt bigtime.
I wouldn't do it even for the QF A330 money, which is also considerably less than what I'm being paid at the moment.
But don't let me spoil the party. When you have had enough of the Gulf I guess it just doesn't matter, you want to go, then good luck.
I think that after a few months the novelty of being back in OZ would not compensate for the pityfull conditions, lack of money and stress of working for such a bunch of miserable pr-cks.
I suppose you could always come back as a DEC if you don't slam to many doors on your way out.
Note:
All of the above guesstimates were based on actual pay statements, no calculators were used at any time and the exact accuracy can not be guaranteed.
I would think you are correct about the tax but the schooling in Dubai costs more even for the 10% we pay than a school in Australia.
You can rent a house in Aus say 4 bedroom for about 200-250 us a week pwr and water about 200us per month.
The gains in EK are not that great compared to Australia, maybe if you are from Europe.
You can rent a house in Aus say 4 bedroom for about 200-250 us a week pwr and water about 200us per month.
The gains in EK are not that great compared to Australia, maybe if you are from Europe.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dubai
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Geez mate....wish my pay check was 500 or 600 ...
Hey Shockwave You would have to be a mug paying full tax rate in Oz these days and with the recent changes in super laws combined with salary sacrifice if you chose to do, then its not as bad as you make out
I wish I was on 500,000 or 600,000 AED and I do not get any renumeration or benefits with no whipper snippers to claim for.
Think your being a little harsh on Rabbitwear as he is pretty close to the numbers for a line Captain with Emirates.
I wish I was on 500,000 or 600,000 AED and I do not get any renumeration or benefits with no whipper snippers to claim for.
Think your being a little harsh on Rabbitwear as he is pretty close to the numbers for a line Captain with Emirates.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 60
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't set out to be hard on anyone in particular, I just don't get it. On financial grounds alone you will not come anywhere near the disposable income of an EK Capt, even when you use his numbers.
I am not aware of the recent super changes, but that is still money that you can't use until you retire and then You can only use it as the government says, or you pay tax on that as well. If your wife works, or ever will then income splitting is only of minor benifit. If you ever intend to send your kids to private school you will be faced with a bill of between 10,000-15,000 OZ $ per kid. That is ofcourse after tax has come out of your salary so you are really paying around 20-24,000 $ per kid, and that won't leave enough disposable income left to invest in negative gearing property etc etc.
You really don't even need to do the math, just look at what the other airline there pays it's crews. You are only just being offered a QF F/O salary and that will psych you out eventually. (second class pilot and all that)
Go to Jetstar by all means, OZ is a great place but if you are doing it for financial reasons I think you will be terribly dissapointed.
Personnally I'd rather comute for Korean or some such airline, earn twice as much as JS are offering and you will proably spend more time at home.
Oh! and in case you are wondering how good the public school education is, just check out my spelling. Private is highly reccommended.
I am not aware of the recent super changes, but that is still money that you can't use until you retire and then You can only use it as the government says, or you pay tax on that as well. If your wife works, or ever will then income splitting is only of minor benifit. If you ever intend to send your kids to private school you will be faced with a bill of between 10,000-15,000 OZ $ per kid. That is ofcourse after tax has come out of your salary so you are really paying around 20-24,000 $ per kid, and that won't leave enough disposable income left to invest in negative gearing property etc etc.
You really don't even need to do the math, just look at what the other airline there pays it's crews. You are only just being offered a QF F/O salary and that will psych you out eventually. (second class pilot and all that)
Go to Jetstar by all means, OZ is a great place but if you are doing it for financial reasons I think you will be terribly dissapointed.
Personnally I'd rather comute for Korean or some such airline, earn twice as much as JS are offering and you will proably spend more time at home.
Oh! and in case you are wondering how good the public school education is, just check out my spelling. Private is highly reccommended.
Shockwave,
excuse the pun, but you are right on the money with your figures. Speaking from personal experience, I can assure anybody that from a net financial position (and only a financial position) I'm upwards of 70% better off now than working for a LCC, based in a capital city in OZ. OZ is a great place to live for sure, but to get ahead these days on an OZ aviation wage, QF excepted, is a struggle.
excuse the pun, but you are right on the money with your figures. Speaking from personal experience, I can assure anybody that from a net financial position (and only a financial position) I'm upwards of 70% better off now than working for a LCC, based in a capital city in OZ. OZ is a great place to live for sure, but to get ahead these days on an OZ aviation wage, QF excepted, is a struggle.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
$150 000 puts you in the top 2% of money earners in Australia. Don't get me wrong, it is definately a B (or C or D) scale when compared to QF.
The thing to think about is the conditions. You will be working your guts out. 10 hour days, 5 days per week. This is the reality of the CAO exemption. The whole idea of Jet Star is to lower the operating costs. So by definition you are a low paid pilot working maximum hours.
For those thinking that you will be returning to Australia to live the Australian life style... Think again. You won't have time to live the Australian life style because you will be at work all the time. Your wife and kids will be able to though... I just hope that they don't mind enjoying it without you.
The new conditions for Jet Star International also have a clause that allows the company to class 'lay overs' as days off. So yep, when JSI starts its international operations to leisure destinations 3 days per week, you'll have a 5 day trip, 3 days of that trip will be classed as 'days off', you'll come home then go again if not the next day then max 1 day off at home. It all about efficiency. You will be used to maximise efficiency.
If getting your wife and kids out of the desert is what you want, then go for it. But to me, $150 000 is not enough to work a 50 hr week at Jet Star, or have 5 nights per month in Australia at Jet Star International.
The thing to think about is the conditions. You will be working your guts out. 10 hour days, 5 days per week. This is the reality of the CAO exemption. The whole idea of Jet Star is to lower the operating costs. So by definition you are a low paid pilot working maximum hours.
For those thinking that you will be returning to Australia to live the Australian life style... Think again. You won't have time to live the Australian life style because you will be at work all the time. Your wife and kids will be able to though... I just hope that they don't mind enjoying it without you.
The new conditions for Jet Star International also have a clause that allows the company to class 'lay overs' as days off. So yep, when JSI starts its international operations to leisure destinations 3 days per week, you'll have a 5 day trip, 3 days of that trip will be classed as 'days off', you'll come home then go again if not the next day then max 1 day off at home. It all about efficiency. You will be used to maximise efficiency.
If getting your wife and kids out of the desert is what you want, then go for it. But to me, $150 000 is not enough to work a 50 hr week at Jet Star, or have 5 nights per month in Australia at Jet Star International.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are wrong about the days off clause down route, and I doubt you will be able to work anywhere near maximum especially in the first year. They already work twice as hard as Jetstar ever will make them. You obviously have a false impression that the guys in Dubai like living there. Even if EK raised the money 30% you wouldn't stop the boys leaving. They have had enough.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not 'wrong' exactly, just reading the agreement from a different perspective... The agreement can also be interpreted so that you only have a minimum of 9 days off at home over 6 roster periods. 
What you think the intent of an agreement is, does not necessarily translate to the agreement you had in your mind. If it suits the Company they can enforce these agreements to the letter of the law. I have added the actual clause for everyone to read.
25.1.3 “You will be rostered free of duty at your Home Base for minimum of 9 designated days off in 6 roster periods and 10 rostered days off in 6 roster periods. The minimum number of days off in a roster period for a pilot will be notified to the pilot no later than before the end of the preceding period.”
Please also look at the following clause. (My emphasis)
25.4.5 “If you are at a layover port, or assigned temporary duty away from home base, you will be rostered for days free of duty as required. We will use our best endeavours to ensure that such days do not detract from your basic entitlement to days off at your home base, except with your consent or at your request. You will be rostered for any days off accumulated under this provision upon return to your home base or where this is not possible, in the next roster period.”
I know of an ex-deputy-chief pilot who would be salivating at these words should they be written into existing mainline certified agreements.
What you think the intent of an agreement is, does not necessarily translate to the agreement you had in your mind. If it suits the Company they can enforce these agreements to the letter of the law. I have added the actual clause for everyone to read.
25.1.3 “You will be rostered free of duty at your Home Base for minimum of 9 designated days off in 6 roster periods and 10 rostered days off in 6 roster periods. The minimum number of days off in a roster period for a pilot will be notified to the pilot no later than before the end of the preceding period.”
Please also look at the following clause. (My emphasis)
25.4.5 “If you are at a layover port, or assigned temporary duty away from home base, you will be rostered for days free of duty as required. We will use our best endeavours to ensure that such days do not detract from your basic entitlement to days off at your home base, except with your consent or at your request. You will be rostered for any days off accumulated under this provision upon return to your home base or where this is not possible, in the next roster period.”
I know of an ex-deputy-chief pilot who would be salivating at these words should they be written into existing mainline certified agreements.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: some dive
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Visual
Mate, I think you better find an EK roster and then try and compare them with Jet*.
Geez, where do I sign up ?? Be bloody great to have that. Lads on the Airbus are getting max 8-9 days off, Capt's that is. Trips to Oz and NZ over a 5 day block, impossible to get appropriate sleep patterns. Arrive in Dubai with two days off and then on ya bike to JFK. 24 hours in a comatosed state, back to Dubai. One F***ing day off, then an all nighter 13 hour duty running around to some sh*thole in Pakistan, India or Middle East. One day off, then to Europe. At this stage one has not even recovered from the original Oz,NZ trip. 24 hours off and back to Dubai. One and a half days off and then another trip. Top this with flying 3 different aircraft on short haul, long haul and ultra long haul and reaching 97 to 99 hours a month and family complaining that they have to live in a third world dive surrounded by monkies and goons and only see their husbands and fathers once a week. Yeah, what a great life. Send a Jet* contract to me any day. 
Mate, I think you better find an EK roster and then try and compare them with Jet*.
free of duty at your Home Base for minimum of 9 designated days off
Ratpoison,
Read it again dude!! It says:-
That means 9 days every six months!!
Still so keen to sign?
Read it again dude!! It says:-
9 designated days off in 6 roster periods
Still so keen to sign?