Warning: Emirates Pilots Are Fatigued

[Shake]

Re: Warning: Emirates Pilots Are Fatigued

Walddy,
Your arguments passed through you and your other IDs do not have any substance. You have been shown to be a fraud on many occassions.
No one objects to another point of view except when it is given by such objectional personas as yours.
Give us the arguments then, the ones with substance. Hang around long enough in one form to substantiate and debate them. Refrain from the insults you accuse others of using...
But history shows that you are incapable of such a debate and to ignore history condemns us to make the same mistake and you are simply not worth it.

[LHR Rain]

Re: Warning: Emirates Pilots Are Fatigued

Hans you are aware of EK and its operating practices aren't you? What good reputation could you possibly be talking about? Lastly, you are aware as I'm sure you are because you are a mangement puke that EK is now drug testing? As a suggestion you might want to get off the contraband before they nail you unless EK does not test office boys.
I think a better topic of the poll should have been is anyone happy at EK? Sure alot of pilots tolerarate EK because they have nowhere else to go but does anyone really enjoy EK? Especially with the way things have been going the last year.

[hans_airbus]

Re: Warning: Emirates Pilots Are Fatigued

Do You Really Think That All The Other Companies Are Much Nicer To Their Employees. Do You?

Go To Europe And See All The ****ty Airlines.

Desicions Are Based On Company Benefits Not Yours.

Its All About Money.

And I Am Quite Happy To Have A Secure Job With An International Airline.

We Have Nice New Well Maintained A/c, Good Route Structure And Dubai Is Nice To Live( Except The Traffic)

I Was Flying Charter Before, 100 Hours A Month, 3-5 Sectors A Day.

You Are Complaining When You Are Rostered For A Dxb-mct-dxb-doh-dxb Flight. This Is An Easy Flight.

So Tell Me What Is Bad In Ek.

[waldorfin]

You see Hans these people cannot stand the fact that people like you and I have a life. They sit around in huddled groups and convince one another that things are SOOOOO bad, however as you stated they don’t leave. We point that out to them and they answer some other nonsense. Nowhere to go…… rubbish. Take a look at the latest flight. Plenty jobs there. Deep down they enjoy it here but this is their perverse way of trying to get management to believe we are going to have a max exodus of drivers and so have to pay us more. Great tactic, if it worked. Truth is it doesn’t. Anyone with slightly more than a high school diploma and pilots license would realise this. What it does is convince other worthy people out there that EK is not an alternative and therefore some good blokes are missing out. A very selfish attitude. Yes we should get paid more, yes we should perhaps fly less, yes I’m happy in my job and enjoy where I live.
Bite me.
GAL

[6853]

Howzit Hans?
Yeh, life is terrible here. Had to sit on the beach in Mauritius the other day with my FO and got horribly sunburnt - you dont perhaps know anything about it? By the way, is it packs on or off this week?
Cheers

[miss petal]

WAL...
Some people they have a life.. outside Dubai.
How can you call yourself to have a life while you couldn't even escaped from this place every now and then ( minimum days off a month!! ) Please don't tell me you have a life between scarlett and spinneys???

Everyone were happy at the old days... and yet Company didn't loose any money!!
Wal.. I'm personally don't like the excessive whinning and complaints. But funny enough I think your post make me lil bit sick in the tummy. Laughable

I flew with a captain the other day, he's one of the person who try so hard not to complain and do the job and try to enjoy. BUT STILL ... he thought this airline is an absolute circus!!! Come on..WAL, stop joking. you make us laugh here!

[bluewater]

To quote Mr Waldorfin:
Anyone with slightly more than a high school diploma and pilots license would realise this.

So that would be most in EK management then, right!
Sorry, couldn't let that one pass...

[hans_airbus]

I enjoy my live in Dubai and I enjoy my life with EK. I agree that the money isnt the best but who pays more, the big picture here in dubai is good.

If it is really so bad here why you dont leave than. And pls stop telling untrue stories about EK.

Of course you can always find minor things to improve but which airline is perfect.

And in my opinion EK is still a very good company to work for.

Emirates should start recruiting motivated and professional pilots with 2000 hours and you will see how many pilots they will get.

And it doesnt matter if they are white or black, asian or european, british or malaysian

[Shake]

Hans:
100 a month 3-5 sectors a day then indeed EK may seem a great deal better. The fact that you were abused at your last airline however does not excuse the fact that you can be treated the way EK treats its pilots, it is simply not an argument for the way things have deteriorated here. Using the same logic you will one day leave EK to your next job when things are bad enough until that too deteriorates to the same level.
Not not all airlines were and are like the ones you experinced but perhaps this is as good as it can get for you. However if the trend continues EK will work you 900+ hrs/year, rosters will make home life impossible and fatigue will become a flight safety/health issue. How will the job be then?
I doubt you have worked in Europe. The airlines in there pay very well and adhere to JAR rules and regulations & you invariably have a union to protect you from arbitary changes to Ts & Cs.
I am happy that you are feeling secure with your International Airline. I just don't think it is a secure as you.

[hans_airbus]

Shake,

I was with an european charter company. ITS NOT TRUE THAT EUROPE PAYS MORE AND GIVES YOU A DECENT LIFE.

For an example Niki pays you only 800 Euros for an FO. If you are sick for more than 1 week they call you for tea and biscuit.

Volare lots of long flights and sectors.

LTU big pay cut, unsecure job, long flights.

Ryan 5 days on 3 days off, 4 sectors every day, In winter 4 times deicing and CAT III. A few of my friends resigned, tooooooo tired after 4 years.

Air berlin, 90 hours every month, no union, lots of sectors

So where is the perfect company.

Guys EK is still good, stop complaining and enjoy ur life.

[hans_airbus]

I know volare went bancrupt. It was just an example

[FlyingCroc]

Hans is right (partly)

The conditions in Europe are not good, all that Hans mentioned is true and compared to these terrible work conditions life at EK is still good. However let's not compare EK to those charter and low-cost operators like Ryan, LTU, Volare, Air Berlin etc... EK is supposed to be a major airline, a flag carrier. It cannot not be that it drifts down to a level of a cheap charter or low cost carrierer in terms of flight duty, hours, safety etc. 90-100 hrs is too much, everyone working as a pilot knows that, SAFETY WILL BE COMPROMISED BY FATIGUE!

[Shake]

Hans:

Points taken but compare like with like. Do you really compare EK with Volare, Lauda & LTU? Air Berlin please, if that is what EK has to compare itself with to look good then the point is already made. EK want you to believe we compare with BA, KLM, Air France et al but it doesn't, it just doesn't.

[wallflower]

You are right Flying Croc,I mean you only have to look at Etihad to see what the cheap charter airline management has done for them.Itcertainly would be a shame if EK went the same way.If any of you guys are serious about leaving.....dont even consider Etihad.The conditions there are a million times worse.......management by fear(or should i say monkeys!)terrible pay.A lot of guys are hanging on because they think that things are so bad that they can only get better.Who knows perhaps they will?I think things at EK will have to sink a lot further down in the quality and SAFETY standards before they reach the ETIHAD level.Good luck anyway

[bushbolox]

Just as an exercise, where exactly would the unhappy people like to go to. Who still has an old style roster with alll the lifestyle perks from the past.I'm sure that the reality in alot of companies in terms of work load isnt much different.The odd , and very sort after ,dinosaur airline job not withstanding.

Badly rostered longhaul, badly rostered lowcost, badly rostered charter , its all the same result, knackered, zombie, operating in a stae of fatigue worse than any drink/fly limit.. I get the impression that Ek has worn out the honeymoon period and the guys there are now suffering the same levels of fatigue and lifestyle that a summer charter operator suffers, relatively speaking...number of sectors etc. Ba newhires on 5 or 6 east coast bullets ( 4 of them weekends) a month is pretty hard going as well.Charter drivers on a mix of longhaul bullets and short mediium haul , day after day. Sharm there and back 12 hrs not level 2 means you can be back in the saddle in 12 hrs for another or straight onto a night group. Its all the same ****. I think it just seems worse at ek because of the past high standard of living and lifestyle.

I think its a bad case of grass is greener , with a few exceptions where you cant get in anyway.

Not looking for a row just curious where they would go with a dubai rating without reverting back to the sort of enviroment they were probably hoping to leave behind,but has now caught up with them. All enviroments change, but none more obvious than the change in expat life in general and the airline business in general.

So where is the nirvanna these days.

[Shake]

BB

Perhaps that's the point. EK is as green as the others; not what it was and not what it professes to be...nirvanna it is not.

[SecurID]

So before you think everything is marvellous think for one or two moments about those guys who used to have it better and now have it worse

Oi'll be tipping a jar to that!

[4legsaday]

-!-

I guess after a couple of years in one company a lot of collegues become blind for reality.

After the experience of flying for different airlines in Europe I am looking for an stable base in our generally downgoeing business. Europe is far away from beeing regulated, thus for all member countries. The MEL is the book I read the most and you have to face a sluggish maintenance, because lowcost IS and MEANS lowcost.
You will be reported to the DO if you do entries in the Technical Logbook and so on...so I can easily understand Hans and divide his point of view.

Yes a lot of our collegues get in JAR command early, but if you fly Easy, Ryan, Air Berlin etc. you think you become Captain with 24 years because of your qualities?? Come on, is this a joke or is this the JAR quality ??
The Lowcost Airlines are timebombs in point of view.

You get rich in Europe?? Ask what a Captain in e.g. TUI Belgium is earning for a month...Do you know that there is a VAT of 20% in most of the countries and you have to pay up to 55% tax on your salary...after all you work 5 Days/4 Legs for nuts, because at the end no one will pay you the pension.

But this is not the point, if you feel so uncomfortable and you can not change the company conditions, try your luck and go to a better one.
Remember as professionals we are getting paid for our work, but if you can get a better contract, then why don´t you go??

But please, please, please STOP whining please, (because I do not have compassion for you) or go whereever you think it´s better.

[Ahad Adump]

Our point exactly, Hans, 4legs.

Most of the more senior guys in EK were your A-class candidate. With backgrounds from national carriers and/or military trained and/or reputable international carriers.

Now that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel, with the likes of you.......well you must think this is Heaven.

When we joined EK, it offered better conditions to what we had.

Now that they cater for your average C-class candidate, well EK just doesn't cut the mustard...........we will bitch and moan and unless things improve soon......... we will leave.

You and your bottom-of-the-barrel mates must stay, where else can the likes of you fly a wide body???
You will be managed by Waldo the "management puke" as described by Rainman.

[Shake]

The fact remains that we are short of pilots, failing to attract new ones in the quantities required and losing those we cannot afford to lose. The result is that those remaining are taking up the slack in an already busy roster. The result is fatigue at levels that are of major concern to the pilots and should be to the management.

Forget fatigue management studies/diaries, ASRs or going sick are the only tools we have to mitigate the current situation as it cannot be avoided.