DEC's at EK
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e7 - think your buddy was hearing wrong.
The number is something like 87 skippers for the 777. Taken from three sources, RHS-LHS within EK, Airbus skippers (about 40, I think) who want to go across and the remainder DECs.
Will still mean about 12-20 DECs. Agree with you
Don't see how they will find them given the c*@p pay and the brutal flying. Not to mention the bad vibes from the JF episode.
About to take the phone off the hook so I can enjoy a wee drink or two. HNY and safe flying to all - wherever you are.
WR
The number is something like 87 skippers for the 777. Taken from three sources, RHS-LHS within EK, Airbus skippers (about 40, I think) who want to go across and the remainder DECs.
Will still mean about 12-20 DECs. Agree with you
Don't see how they will find them given the c*@p pay and the brutal flying. Not to mention the bad vibes from the JF episode.
About to take the phone off the hook so I can enjoy a wee drink or two. HNY and safe flying to all - wherever you are.
WR
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Airbus guys to 777 idea has been abandoned I believe, so no 40 to go across. Only a few guys who were originally on 777 will go back. So, either more 777 RHS - LHS or more room for DEC's.
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It is funny how EK works. They announce this big policy change and say that no one will be delayed for their command because of the transfer policy.
They want to upgrade in order by normal commands, than accel, than transition, than last DECs. They don't want to do DECs but the cirumstances being what they are they might have to go the DEC route or so says the company. Funny now because they have not announced any of the three above commands paths but already have posted and announced interview dates for the DECs. So the company was real quick to go the last path but still have not done anything for the first three paths. Very interesting.
Any bets on how many DECs they will be hiring and how many current FOs will "get" the transition? My bet is that the DECs will out number the normal upgrades by 4 to 1. 100 to 25.
This is how EK treats its employees. Puts out a FCI to improve morale and stop FOs from leaving. But that FCI does nothing for the current pilots at EK and the deeper you look at it you realize it does nothing but "allow" DECs to come.
They want to upgrade in order by normal commands, than accel, than transition, than last DECs. They don't want to do DECs but the cirumstances being what they are they might have to go the DEC route or so says the company. Funny now because they have not announced any of the three above commands paths but already have posted and announced interview dates for the DECs. So the company was real quick to go the last path but still have not done anything for the first three paths. Very interesting.
Any bets on how many DECs they will be hiring and how many current FOs will "get" the transition? My bet is that the DECs will out number the normal upgrades by 4 to 1. 100 to 25.
This is how EK treats its employees. Puts out a FCI to improve morale and stop FOs from leaving. But that FCI does nothing for the current pilots at EK and the deeper you look at it you realize it does nothing but "allow" DECs to come.
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LL just told me that the only pilots eligible for transition upgrade will be those pilots that have 2000 hours PIC time. So that excludes the majority of Emirates pilots. Not only are most first officers not eligible for the transition but now we will have DECs and junior pilots on the senority list getting captain before you and taking the captain slots. This was not suppose to delay anyone from getting captain.
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LHR Rain has got it right.
During my years here it has been fairly consistent that when facing these types of issues, the company puts out a few rumours then eventually an FCI that on the surface seems reasonable and placates a few of those that consider themselves disadvantaged. Shortly thereafter follows the subtle proviso's that weren't published, such as 2000 hrs command and the add in FLIGHT for DEC's.
A little bit of reading between the lines, combined with years of seeing this sort of crap be repeated, tells me that the management need more DEC's, but are concerned by the amount of ill will and resignations that currently exists, so they publish a smokescreen FCI in order to try and fool the F/O's into thinking they are being looked after.
I hope i'm wrong, for the sake of our F/O's, but we will know in a few months.
Having said that, i seriously doubt they are going to get the numbers they need (DEC's) without seriously upping the offer. There is a bit of choice out there at the moment.
But as we have already seen, they are quite prepared to pay DEC's more than they pay us. Another interesting year.
Keep Discovering.
During my years here it has been fairly consistent that when facing these types of issues, the company puts out a few rumours then eventually an FCI that on the surface seems reasonable and placates a few of those that consider themselves disadvantaged. Shortly thereafter follows the subtle proviso's that weren't published, such as 2000 hrs command and the add in FLIGHT for DEC's.
A little bit of reading between the lines, combined with years of seeing this sort of crap be repeated, tells me that the management need more DEC's, but are concerned by the amount of ill will and resignations that currently exists, so they publish a smokescreen FCI in order to try and fool the F/O's into thinking they are being looked after.
I hope i'm wrong, for the sake of our F/O's, but we will know in a few months.
Having said that, i seriously doubt they are going to get the numbers they need (DEC's) without seriously upping the offer. There is a bit of choice out there at the moment.
But as we have already seen, they are quite prepared to pay DEC's more than they pay us. Another interesting year.
Keep Discovering.
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Truly, some guys must be rather new to the middle east...
<<<....tells me that the management need more DEC's, but are concerned by the amount of ill will and resignations that currently exists, so they publish a smokescreen FCI in order to try and fool the F/O's into thinking they are being looked after.>>>
A tried and true middle eastern management procedure.
<<<But as we have already seen, they are quite prepared to pay DEC's more than they pay us.>>>
This is generally always the case.
A shortage demands appropriate action, and the comensurate levels of pay, otherwise the situation goes downhill rapidly.
Besides, experienced new guys demand higher pay...always been thus, like it or not...and certainly many do not.
Clearly many uninformed joined EK in the first place, dispite their claimed professional qualifications, which no doubt many had....however, they lacked 'street smarts', middle eastern style.
Babes in the woods comes to mind.
A tried and true middle eastern management procedure.
<<<But as we have already seen, they are quite prepared to pay DEC's more than they pay us.>>>
This is generally always the case.
A shortage demands appropriate action, and the comensurate levels of pay, otherwise the situation goes downhill rapidly.
Besides, experienced new guys demand higher pay...always been thus, like it or not...and certainly many do not.
Clearly many uninformed joined EK in the first place, dispite their claimed professional qualifications, which no doubt many had....however, they lacked 'street smarts', middle eastern style.
Babes in the woods comes to mind.
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LHR Rain said:
"They want to upgrade in order by normal commands, than accel, than transition, than last DECs. They don't want to do DECs but the circumstances being what they are they might have to go the DEC route or so says the company. Funny now because they have not announced any of the three above commands paths but already have posted and announced interview dates for the DECs. So the company was real quick to go the last path but still have not done anything for the first three paths. Very interesting"
Not very interesting at all LHR Rain. From the date that they place the advert for DECs until the date they get the first one on line will be several months whereas you and other hopefuls in the wings could get a 'phone call from your Manager to-morrow and have you in the SIM by the end of the week, you are captive and can, if required, be processed very quickly, the DECs, on the other hand, still have a very long way to go.
DECs in rapidly expanding airlines in both the Middle and Far East have been a fact of life for, to my knowledge, the last forty years, in other words before most of the qualified FOs in EK were born so I find it hard to believe that they didn't know how the Middle East works before they signed up and don't seem to be prepared for it.
davidletterman, the word scab is banned on PPRuNe, mainly because those that use it don't actually know what it means or they don't know when to properly apply it, (as would seem to be so in your case), there is no strike, there is no picket line.
Not very interesting at all LHR Rain. From the date that they place the advert for DECs until the date they get the first one on line will be several months whereas you and other hopefuls in the wings could get a 'phone call from your Manager to-morrow and have you in the SIM by the end of the week, you are captive and can, if required, be processed very quickly, the DECs, on the other hand, still have a very long way to go.
DECs in rapidly expanding airlines in both the Middle and Far East have been a fact of life for, to my knowledge, the last forty years, in other words before most of the qualified FOs in EK were born so I find it hard to believe that they didn't know how the Middle East works before they signed up and don't seem to be prepared for it.
davidletterman, the word scab is banned on PPRuNe, mainly because those that use it don't actually know what it means or they don't know when to properly apply it, (as would seem to be so in your case), there is no strike, there is no picket line.
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Thanks BE, I'll pick up on that - letterman, you've maintained a good stance until your latest outburst & I realize that tensions are raised and opinions are inflamed but if anyone uses the "scab" word again it will be in their last post.
You must be a bundle of joy to fly with. Realize that your viewpoint & concerns will have no effect on the greater play of events & get on with your life. For you & your colleagues sake.
4HP
You must be a bundle of joy to fly with. Realize that your viewpoint & concerns will have no effect on the greater play of events & get on with your life. For you & your colleagues sake.
4HP
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You don't have to have a piket line to be the word that is banned from your site. And by the way, enlighten us on the proper use of the word that is banned. We are dying to know.
Just because management in the middle and far east have used these DEC tactics does not make it right or for that matter that FOs should roll over and accept said tactics. We are in a new century and not using mangement styles from the 1950s.
Just a little background info for all those lurkers. EK had 8 resignations in Dec, about 50 last year and probably are going to have over 100 this year. Like was metioned previously, in a rapidly expanding airline you don't want to have a significant portion of your pilot ranks leaving and by bringing in DECs that will only accelerate the pilots leaving. Mangement is not thinking this through at all.
Yes Mr Blue Eagle I am avilable for ugrade at anytime but I am not counting on a phone call anytime soon or that of any of my friends. In other words we all know the true intentions of EK mangement. Please enlighten us on the banned word!
Just because management in the middle and far east have used these DEC tactics does not make it right or for that matter that FOs should roll over and accept said tactics. We are in a new century and not using mangement styles from the 1950s.
Just a little background info for all those lurkers. EK had 8 resignations in Dec, about 50 last year and probably are going to have over 100 this year. Like was metioned previously, in a rapidly expanding airline you don't want to have a significant portion of your pilot ranks leaving and by bringing in DECs that will only accelerate the pilots leaving. Mangement is not thinking this through at all.
Yes Mr Blue Eagle I am avilable for ugrade at anytime but I am not counting on a phone call anytime soon or that of any of my friends. In other words we all know the true intentions of EK mangement. Please enlighten us on the banned word!
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LHR,
last time you said you were a captain now you are a F/O again????
what are you smoking?
Here is the link to your posting when you were a captain, good luck with your meeting with the company psychologist!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...0&pagenumber=2
last time you said you were a captain now you are a F/O again????
what are you smoking?
Here is the link to your posting when you were a captain, good luck with your meeting with the company psychologist!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...0&pagenumber=2
Last edited by Zomp; 31st Dec 2005 at 13:06.
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Ha ha ha ha... 4HP, you made me laugh...but really, I am a bundle of joy to fly with!! I had no idea the word was forbidden, so it has been replaced.
your patronizing advise is well received, I will now go and get on with my life, what a relief...
your patronizing advise is well received, I will now go and get on with my life, what a relief...
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Hi Guys,
I joined EK as a DEC about 2,5 years ago. FRom my experience I can tell you that 99% of the FO`S I was flying with are great guys to fly with, very polite, respectfull and most of them ready for upgrades.
Everybody from all over the world ( BLACK AND WHITE) IS VERY WELCOME TO JOIN EMIRATES THIS INCLUDES DEC`S and FO`S.
Nobody was forced to leave their previous jobs to join EK and nobody was forced to sign the contract.
Only one guy( It could be LHR Rain ) was not mature enough to handle the situation. A guy with bad attitude and bad performance.
In my opinion he will never make it.
So I am very happy here and I enjoy flying.
Happy new year to everybody
I joined EK as a DEC about 2,5 years ago. FRom my experience I can tell you that 99% of the FO`S I was flying with are great guys to fly with, very polite, respectfull and most of them ready for upgrades.
Everybody from all over the world ( BLACK AND WHITE) IS VERY WELCOME TO JOIN EMIRATES THIS INCLUDES DEC`S and FO`S.
Nobody was forced to leave their previous jobs to join EK and nobody was forced to sign the contract.
Only one guy( It could be LHR Rain ) was not mature enough to handle the situation. A guy with bad attitude and bad performance.
In my opinion he will never make it.
So I am very happy here and I enjoy flying.
Happy new year to everybody
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LHR Rain, you are not in a new country, you are in a very old one. So you want the locals to abandon their habits of a life time and conform to the views you see as the most convenient to your current situation. Best of luck, people have been trying to change the ways of the locals in the ME for years, look around you, has anything changed? You should have gone to the ME with your eyes wide open, there was so much history to consider, not to mention that nothing has changed in the last fifty years. DECs, like the Pyramids, have been around for a long time, are very obvious and we can reasonably expect to see them around for a long time yet.
"scab
n.
A worker who refuses to join a labor union
A union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended
A worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike strike breaker
One who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law 1996. Merriam-Webster's, Incorporated. Published under license with Merriam-Webster, Incorporated "
The forbidden word does not apply to DECs at EK and here I request the indulgence of Mod 4PolerHoler in order that I can point out that once again you are wrong.
If, as you say, you are on your command course then why don't you just settle down and enjoy it? You really don't need any more hassle, especially once you are a line checked captain. Learn to accept the inevitable, enjoy your work, enjoy your leisure and live a lot longer as a result.
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"scab
n.
A worker who refuses to join a labor union
A union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended
A worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike strike breaker
One who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law 1996. Merriam-Webster's, Incorporated. Published under license with Merriam-Webster, Incorporated "
The forbidden word does not apply to DECs at EK and here I request the indulgence of Mod 4PolerHoler in order that I can point out that once again you are wrong.
If, as you say, you are on your command course then why don't you just settle down and enjoy it? You really don't need any more hassle, especially once you are a line checked captain. Learn to accept the inevitable, enjoy your work, enjoy your leisure and live a lot longer as a result.
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