DEC's at EK
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Bubair,
It appears that there is no current policy on the Emirates web site regarding accelerated commands. The only way to find out would be to ask at the interview, if you've already pased that stage just send them an email and ask what the criteria is.
I'm a little perplexed about "the quick commands that Emirates advertise". As far as I know, Emirates may infer that command prospects are good (how long is a piece of string) but I can't recall any advertising as such.
My advice is that PPrune is not a place to ask if you will be dissapointed or not.
I just clicked....you are only 30 years old!!
I doubt very much that you will meet the accelerated command criteria, nothing wrong with a bit of ambition but I think you might be stretching things a bit compared to some of our F/O's experience levels.
BA might do you some good.
It appears that there is no current policy on the Emirates web site regarding accelerated commands. The only way to find out would be to ask at the interview, if you've already pased that stage just send them an email and ask what the criteria is.
I'm a little perplexed about "the quick commands that Emirates advertise". As far as I know, Emirates may infer that command prospects are good (how long is a piece of string) but I can't recall any advertising as such.
My advice is that PPrune is not a place to ask if you will be dissapointed or not.
I just clicked....you are only 30 years old!!
I doubt very much that you will meet the accelerated command criteria, nothing wrong with a bit of ambition but I think you might be stretching things a bit compared to some of our F/O's experience levels.
BA might do you some good.
Last edited by Global Nomad; 13th Nov 2005 at 08:36.
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Global Nomad,
Why do you think people are attracted by a company like Ek?
Do you think they would have the same number of applications if the wait to the upgrade to the left seat would be the same of the other "big" airlines?
I doubt it.
Your suggestion of asking them is appreciated but is way off to be considered efficient!
What do you think they would say ?
They are doing their best to attract people to join and they do it well.
Why do you think people are attracted by a company like Ek?
Do you think they would have the same number of applications if the wait to the upgrade to the left seat would be the same of the other "big" airlines?
I doubt it.
Your suggestion of asking them is appreciated but is way off to be considered efficient!
What do you think they would say ?
They are doing their best to attract people to join and they do it well.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Awww come on SS, be nice.
You're quite correct in asking for anything contractual in writing.
However, if you read your contract before you signed it (and I'm sure you did being a diligent Navy chap), there is a clause that says they can change your terms when they like and notify you in writing. Caveat Emptor, so I cannot understand why people are so surprised when things change in the Middle East.
Having said that, most reasonable people (and I'm sure that you're one of them) are able to look at the big picture and take the rough with the smooth....thought the RN was good at that.
Bubair
Nail on the head on the commands, that's exactly why Emirates appears to have difficulty in recruiting quantity and quality at present. Try the email, I think you'd be surprised.
You're quite correct in asking for anything contractual in writing.
However, if you read your contract before you signed it (and I'm sure you did being a diligent Navy chap), there is a clause that says they can change your terms when they like and notify you in writing. Caveat Emptor, so I cannot understand why people are so surprised when things change in the Middle East.
Having said that, most reasonable people (and I'm sure that you're one of them) are able to look at the big picture and take the rough with the smooth....thought the RN was good at that.
Bubair
Nail on the head on the commands, that's exactly why Emirates appears to have difficulty in recruiting quantity and quality at present. Try the email, I think you'd be surprised.
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How can we further divide the pilot group? Create yet another policy to advantage some and not others.....this company has been built on the experience and commitment of it's FO's and now yet again, another division within the group to "accelerate" some. Every FO should be given a fair, equal and timely opportunity for a shot at an upgrade. Another shake of the head....
Remember accelerating f/os is much better than bringing in DECs which creates a standstill.
The chances for all of a 3 year upgrade are enhanced by continually moving f/os , cancel the fast track and more decs will come in, watch the commands blow to 5-7 then ...
Also it seems many experienced F/os can get good command jobs outside now and i dont think EK can afford to lose the experience.
If you came expecting a 3 year command and you are already here im sure it will still happen but the pool of F/os must keep moving and even out of sequence will still benefit the majority.
The chances for all of a 3 year upgrade are enhanced by continually moving f/os , cancel the fast track and more decs will come in, watch the commands blow to 5-7 then ...
Also it seems many experienced F/os can get good command jobs outside now and i dont think EK can afford to lose the experience.
If you came expecting a 3 year command and you are already here im sure it will still happen but the pool of F/os must keep moving and even out of sequence will still benefit the majority.
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Might I suggest that is "new" FCI is only good for a small percentage of the Emirates FOs, the accelerated ones. For everyone else (me included) this might cause to delay our upgrades. Here is how I see it. Pilots that are senior to you on the seniority list and get the accelerated pass just make captain quicker and good for them. That won't effect a lot of the first offficers. Pilots that are junior to you on the seniority list but get the accelerated program now jump you and make captain before you and take up a coveted command slot. We, the ones that have to wait now are looking at a diminished command prospect because of someone junior to you taking a slot. We all know that are only a limited amount of command slots to go around so the sooner you make captain the better.
I do agree however that this new program is better than hiring DECs. However I don't see the reason to bring back the accelerated program when most FOs are waiting over three years for their commands on the airbus. I must admit that I don't know the story on the Boeing.
I do agree however that this new program is better than hiring DECs. However I don't see the reason to bring back the accelerated program when most FOs are waiting over three years for their commands on the airbus. I must admit that I don't know the story on the Boeing.
The story is they are very short on 777 so moving airbus F/os to the 777 will still help out the airbus guys by freeing up more slots on the Airbus when the 346 and 380 come , i wouldnt worry 2 much just yet....
By the way where is the FCI as i havnt seen it yet ,and it is all speculation as far as i can see.
By the way where is the FCI as i havnt seen it yet ,and it is all speculation as far as i can see.
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Maddog,
I don't know where you got the info that this FCI was coming out.
All I have heard is talk about the possibility of Airbus Captains transfering to the 777 which I guess would free up further vacancies for airbus F/O's to move to the LHS.
But in any case, I think F/O's are still getting commands on the airbus at the 3 - 3 1/2 year mark.
cheers
I don't know where you got the info that this FCI was coming out.
All I have heard is talk about the possibility of Airbus Captains transfering to the 777 which I guess would free up further vacancies for airbus F/O's to move to the LHS.
But in any case, I think F/O's are still getting commands on the airbus at the 3 - 3 1/2 year mark.
cheers
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How can we further divide the pilot group? Create yet another policy to advantage some and not others.....this company has been built on the experience and commitment of it's FO's and now yet again, another division within the group to "accelerate" some. Every FO should be given a fair, equal and timely opportunity for a shot at an upgrade. Another shake of the head....
That is well said Salt. It seems that EK management is the divide and conquer stlye of management.
I strongly disagree with Scotter, if you cancel the fast track it does not mean more DECs. There is plenty of FOs that are here and just short of 3 yrs that are qualified and deserving of the limited commands and should get one.
Also Scotter the fast track does benefit the majority. It harms the majority and benefits very few, the fast trackers. Plus the A-346 and A-380 are at least a year and a half away and if the fast trackers junior to us go the B-777 the majority of the senority list of the Airbus pilots will be delayed.
That is well said Salt. It seems that EK management is the divide and conquer stlye of management.
I strongly disagree with Scotter, if you cancel the fast track it does not mean more DECs. There is plenty of FOs that are here and just short of 3 yrs that are qualified and deserving of the limited commands and should get one.
Also Scotter the fast track does benefit the majority. It harms the majority and benefits very few, the fast trackers. Plus the A-346 and A-380 are at least a year and a half away and if the fast trackers junior to us go the B-777 the majority of the senority list of the Airbus pilots will be delayed.
Rain it boils down to if the 3 years has to stick then accelerated is better than DEC thats for sure.
The fact that the accelerateds will be on the 777 will not affect the airbus guys it will help some.
There is quite a few F/Os on the Airbus with the DEC requirement do you think they should get bypassed by DECs off the street, that will disadvantage all.
They r so short on the 777 DECs will come no matter what, i agree they should go case by case after say 2 years but thats too hard isnt it.
The accelerated will also help retain pilots that otherwise are ready to walk.
Plenty of Captains are leaving in the next year so there will be jobs for all and the 3 years will stay on the Airbus or there abouts.
Why would you get pissed off if it took you 3 years and 3 months instead of 3 years.
The fact that the accelerateds will be on the 777 will not affect the airbus guys it will help some.
There is quite a few F/Os on the Airbus with the DEC requirement do you think they should get bypassed by DECs off the street, that will disadvantage all.
They r so short on the 777 DECs will come no matter what, i agree they should go case by case after say 2 years but thats too hard isnt it.
The accelerated will also help retain pilots that otherwise are ready to walk.
Plenty of Captains are leaving in the next year so there will be jobs for all and the 3 years will stay on the Airbus or there abouts.
Why would you get pissed off if it took you 3 years and 3 months instead of 3 years.
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Accelerated upgrade policy for F/Os
Just a simple question everyone. What kind of experience criteria qualifies an F/O for accelerated upgrade?
I have a little over 5000TT with 2500 hrs F/O on the 767. Were I to join EK in the near future would I be eligible for command within a few years??
Regards,
Kaiser Soczay!
I have a little over 5000TT with 2500 hrs F/O on the 767. Were I to join EK in the near future would I be eligible for command within a few years??
Regards,
Kaiser Soczay!
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Requirements as I understand them are:
8000hr TT including 2000hrs in command of Jet over 55,000kgs.
AT TIME OF JOINING!!!
I think the new policy (if infact it does exist??), is better than what was here a few weeks ago, but why not transition for guys that have been here for 3yrs and a day???
(BTW I do not quallify for fast track, I just think its a half step in the right direction!)
Cheers
8000hr TT including 2000hrs in command of Jet over 55,000kgs.
AT TIME OF JOINING!!!
I think the new policy (if infact it does exist??), is better than what was here a few weeks ago, but why not transition for guys that have been here for 3yrs and a day???
(BTW I do not quallify for fast track, I just think its a half step in the right direction!)
Cheers
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But isn't it crazy that you could have had:
7,999 hours and 2,500 in Command on type at the time of joining. After EK have looked at you for 2 years you'd have about 9800 and not be eligible for acceleration. But a guy with 8000 on joining, no command time on type could have his at 9350?!?
Logic smogic! The only way is to chuck away arbitrary numbers and look at ability and performance but it will never happen.
Schnowzer
7,999 hours and 2,500 in Command on type at the time of joining. After EK have looked at you for 2 years you'd have about 9800 and not be eligible for acceleration. But a guy with 8000 on joining, no command time on type could have his at 9350?!?
Logic smogic! The only way is to chuck away arbitrary numbers and look at ability and performance but it will never happen.
Schnowzer
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or how about 9000 hours but only 1500 command due to working for a major long haul airlines where commands take 5 to 10 years +.
or
9500 tt 7999 hours before EK 3000 command on european low cost, operating major airport, cat 3 for real but only 2 years at ek.
why 8000 hours of whatever experience BEFORE joining it means 2000 hours in a cessna is of more value than 1 hour in ek. AND PREVIOUS HOURS MAY BE ON THE TYPE YOU ARE TRANSITIONING UPGRADE TO.
ITS ALL SMOKE SO THAT "THE BOYS" CAN JUMP TO 380
or
9500 tt 7999 hours before EK 3000 command on european low cost, operating major airport, cat 3 for real but only 2 years at ek.
why 8000 hours of whatever experience BEFORE joining it means 2000 hours in a cessna is of more value than 1 hour in ek. AND PREVIOUS HOURS MAY BE ON THE TYPE YOU ARE TRANSITIONING UPGRADE TO.
ITS ALL SMOKE SO THAT "THE BOYS" CAN JUMP TO 380
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"...on seniority full stop"
As should upgrades.... Right, GN?
With the transition upgrades, I am guessing the rule will be "Qualified for Fast Track and 3 years in the company". Let's wait and see, gents
With the transition upgrades, I am guessing the rule will be "Qualified for Fast Track and 3 years in the company". Let's wait and see, gents
