Sun Express News
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Nothing will change!!!!
What happened when everybody know B 737-800 can carry 220 Pax??? I know our aircraft can carry only 189. Isnt it?!!!!
But Capt Er..n E..n , previous Flight Operation Maneger can fly, he can not be touch.He got order from Mr.GENERAL Paul and he fly. What is this! German CAA do you know this,Condor are you sleeping or what. money is sweet but accident is bitter.
What happened when everybody know B 737-800 can carry 220 Pax??? I know our aircraft can carry only 189. Isnt it?!!!!
But Capt Er..n E..n , previous Flight Operation Maneger can fly, he can not be touch.He got order from Mr.GENERAL Paul and he fly. What is this! German CAA do you know this,Condor are you sleeping or what. money is sweet but accident is bitter.
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As far as I know it has not been ORDERED by P.General but approved.............of course its not his a.. whats on the line a smart move, but Mr dual personality Er.. Ek.. is not the brightest
and his A.. was on the line.
In addition the ' hearing session' by the company was held on
17 december 2003. Guess what ?....key figure mr.P.General was on his annual leave.HAHAHAHA what a farce!!!!!
And I know an unverified version of the story of this Innsbruck incident:
Cpt. Mr.'Personality Problem' and FO 'Mr. 'Runaway ' (***he always sounds like running away for something on RTF***)
Coming in too high because of overweight (illigal tankering),MET conditions and tailwind unable to lose speed etc.etc.combination with short runway decide to make a Go Around( probably unilateral by cpt, suits his personality) GOOD DECISION.
But out of the experiences from the SIM these guys always crashed in that particular approach so he invents on the spot
a MAP not to get into IMC what made the christmas tree flicker and the EGWS hard warning ..........
Result :
Cpt gets a warning and a punishment, he is withdrawn from the Innsbruck flights (and believe it or not this is a punishment for the guy). Together with the other Innsbruck rated Cpts.
(he is not part of the 76ers, as a matter of fact I really dont know
where he is part of, maybe the airconditioning association)
The FO was punished as well he is now CPT 'Runaway'.
(he is an integral part of the 76ers, but not very aggressive)
And the Company ceased operation to Innsbruck for approx. 8 months.( as if in " in time the people will forget".)
Any comments denials or verifications are welcome, cause this is
the unverified version.
and his A.. was on the line.
In addition the ' hearing session' by the company was held on
17 december 2003. Guess what ?....key figure mr.P.General was on his annual leave.HAHAHAHA what a farce!!!!!
And I know an unverified version of the story of this Innsbruck incident:
Cpt. Mr.'Personality Problem' and FO 'Mr. 'Runaway ' (***he always sounds like running away for something on RTF***)
Coming in too high because of overweight (illigal tankering),MET conditions and tailwind unable to lose speed etc.etc.combination with short runway decide to make a Go Around( probably unilateral by cpt, suits his personality) GOOD DECISION.
But out of the experiences from the SIM these guys always crashed in that particular approach so he invents on the spot
a MAP not to get into IMC what made the christmas tree flicker and the EGWS hard warning ..........
Result :
Cpt gets a warning and a punishment, he is withdrawn from the Innsbruck flights (and believe it or not this is a punishment for the guy). Together with the other Innsbruck rated Cpts.
(he is not part of the 76ers, as a matter of fact I really dont know
where he is part of, maybe the airconditioning association)
The FO was punished as well he is now CPT 'Runaway'.
(he is an integral part of the 76ers, but not very aggressive)
And the Company ceased operation to Innsbruck for approx. 8 months.( as if in " in time the people will forget".)
Any comments denials or verifications are welcome, cause this is
the unverified version.
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INNSBRUCK NEAR DISASTER REPORT:
Capt S.Oz...u was the Captain, a guy with big big personal problems and the FO Irfan the LION, a well below average pilot, as you mentioned promoted to captain meanwhile, maybe our future TRE capt.
I heard this near accident from Irfan the Lion. They survived by just only a few hundred feet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In innsbruck the approach is LOC approach which you fly in approach mode up to the MDA and then continue visual.The weather wasnt that bad, but a few clouds just over the MDA.
So the overconfident Capt decided to circumnavigate the clouds and fly a visual approach, in half IMC conditions!!!
Finally they ended up in full IMC at the MDA. What shall we do now.GOD help Us.
The normal procedure for INN is to fly on the LOC till MDA and than visuall. In case of go around on a track to ??? miles and than right turn back to VOR/NDB. But in this case they were lost and made the inital turn a few miles before the Published GA point. During the turn they got the whole EGPWS .with whoop whoop pull up terrna for a long long time.
And finally i think the punishment method is inappropriate. The safety team should investigate and find solutions how to make these kind of approaches safer. Change of Training etc etc. Pls dont understand me wrong, this of course is not valid for Sun Express because there is no SAFETY.
Or do you really think that Mr. Flightdirector Kamil is professional enough to fullfill his duties, I cant say captain to him, Sorry.
Capt S.Oz...u was the Captain, a guy with big big personal problems and the FO Irfan the LION, a well below average pilot, as you mentioned promoted to captain meanwhile, maybe our future TRE capt.
I heard this near accident from Irfan the Lion. They survived by just only a few hundred feet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In innsbruck the approach is LOC approach which you fly in approach mode up to the MDA and then continue visual.The weather wasnt that bad, but a few clouds just over the MDA.
So the overconfident Capt decided to circumnavigate the clouds and fly a visual approach, in half IMC conditions!!!
Finally they ended up in full IMC at the MDA. What shall we do now.GOD help Us.
The normal procedure for INN is to fly on the LOC till MDA and than visuall. In case of go around on a track to ??? miles and than right turn back to VOR/NDB. But in this case they were lost and made the inital turn a few miles before the Published GA point. During the turn they got the whole EGPWS .with whoop whoop pull up terrna for a long long time.
And finally i think the punishment method is inappropriate. The safety team should investigate and find solutions how to make these kind of approaches safer. Change of Training etc etc. Pls dont understand me wrong, this of course is not valid for Sun Express because there is no SAFETY.
Or do you really think that Mr. Flightdirector Kamil is professional enough to fullfill his duties, I cant say captain to him, Sorry.
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Yep,
I agree I have never said Cpt. to him, the status is irrelevant but it is an undenieble fact so you have to give it to him by writing it in a post.
And still all of the factors I mentioned are involved, in this incident
(besides the high approach ,maybe??).
right??
I agree I have never said Cpt. to him, the status is irrelevant but it is an undenieble fact so you have to give it to him by writing it in a post.
And still all of the factors I mentioned are involved, in this incident
(besides the high approach ,maybe??).
right??
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Do you guys have a pilots assocciation ? If the answer is yes, talk to them. Did Sun Express (part of Th. Cook) introduced a FDM programe yet? If yes - management knows it all! If they don't do anything about it- well, bail out a.s.a.p.!
I've been on a contract in Turkey and have been asked to leave (or get fired) because I openly spoke to the chief pilot about my concerns and about the (unacceptable) way they do things.
Grounded airplanes for very good reasons - but a local (ex-military, no fear attitude) capt. was always happy to fly it !
An accident waiting to happen !!!
CRM seems to be non existent, the Turkish CAA is not doing anything about it.
It probably needs more bans in Europe to wake'em up!
Rmk.: Dear moderator, Sun Express is a European company, flying to European destinations only. This post should be in our Rumours and News section!
P.S.: Let them try and close this forum too...
I've been on a contract in Turkey and have been asked to leave (or get fired) because I openly spoke to the chief pilot about my concerns and about the (unacceptable) way they do things.
Grounded airplanes for very good reasons - but a local (ex-military, no fear attitude) capt. was always happy to fly it !
An accident waiting to happen !!!
CRM seems to be non existent, the Turkish CAA is not doing anything about it.
It probably needs more bans in Europe to wake'em up!
Rmk.: Dear moderator, Sun Express is a European company, flying to European destinations only. This post should be in our Rumours and News section!
P.S.: Let them try and close this forum too...
Last edited by MaxBlow; 17th Oct 2005 at 00:21.
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XQ
too sad. this co. used to be one of the best carriers in TR. biggest major problem here is a bunch of incompetent ex-military pilots (76er) who have run down this operation to an ordinary TR-carrier-standard. XQ managers have underestimated the risks of letting these 76ers take control. the result is obvious: more and more competent pilots are leaving, XQ's loosing credibility day by day. PS should ask DLH for assistance to show these boys where they belong. (many of them don't even make a good FO)
lots of these mgmt pilots mentioned before are known to be very keen on having titles.
a couple years ago, XQ 76ers tried very hard to ban foreign pilots from flying for TR carriers using TALPA as an instrument. a reality check would reveal that TR is in need of 1000+ pilots right now. they've failed to forsee the rising demand in quality and quantity. TR recently joined the JAA club and the DGCA is still f*cking around with THY s fossile ex-militaries to establish JAR standards. no way this will ever work. they 'll get kicked out of this club faster then they can imagine. some more examples like Onur Air and a couple of other fishy airlines will do the rest.
i am disappointed. XQ has been in this business over 10 years, setting examples to all other carriers not too long ago. DLH has provided all tools and assistance to make them succed.
U-turn is the only way out i guess (before lifes are lost). good luck ...
lots of these mgmt pilots mentioned before are known to be very keen on having titles.
a couple years ago, XQ 76ers tried very hard to ban foreign pilots from flying for TR carriers using TALPA as an instrument. a reality check would reveal that TR is in need of 1000+ pilots right now. they've failed to forsee the rising demand in quality and quantity. TR recently joined the JAA club and the DGCA is still f*cking around with THY s fossile ex-militaries to establish JAR standards. no way this will ever work. they 'll get kicked out of this club faster then they can imagine. some more examples like Onur Air and a couple of other fishy airlines will do the rest.
i am disappointed. XQ has been in this business over 10 years, setting examples to all other carriers not too long ago. DLH has provided all tools and assistance to make them succed.
U-turn is the only way out i guess (before lifes are lost). good luck ...
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Hi anotherdriver,
u are absolutely right but GM Paul S( a disgrace for all Lufthansa Managers) doesnt want any help and assistance from Lufthansa.
He was the guy who supported all these 76 militarymafia. He promoted Capt ***** to ops manager( a guy who failed his sim due to lack of basics and if you remember he was involved in the near crashed in antalya a few years ago when he was tryhing to land at reported windshaer wx), he supported french Muhsin, a TRE?????
A few years ago Mr. General Paul said I dont want any other guy from LH because they are asking too many questions.
And the accident in Poznan was just the beginning, so many other incidents just filed away. Paul is not interested in Safety. HE IS ONLY INTERESTED IN MONEY.
And the military mafia they dont know the meaning of Safety, these guys are dangerous and destroyed the whole reputation of XQ.
The only method of treatment would be the cleaning of the whole Managment and the 76 gang. Sun Express is an important part of THOMAS COOK and they must do an AUDIT asap otherwise the next accident is just arournd the corner
And can u imagine all pilots were forced to fly more than 300 hours. More than 300 hours. And this was approved by Turkish CAA. A few pilots denied and were told by Nail A. if they dont sign they will have big problems. Only 13 Pilots signed. Most of them 76 gang.
I would like to know if Condor and Lufthansa know about this and especially THE GERMAN AUTHORITIES.
Within the Company it is strictly forbidden to tallk about this and the Poznan accident. Why Mr General Paul????? WHY????
u are absolutely right but GM Paul S( a disgrace for all Lufthansa Managers) doesnt want any help and assistance from Lufthansa.
He was the guy who supported all these 76 militarymafia. He promoted Capt ***** to ops manager( a guy who failed his sim due to lack of basics and if you remember he was involved in the near crashed in antalya a few years ago when he was tryhing to land at reported windshaer wx), he supported french Muhsin, a TRE?????
A few years ago Mr. General Paul said I dont want any other guy from LH because they are asking too many questions.
And the accident in Poznan was just the beginning, so many other incidents just filed away. Paul is not interested in Safety. HE IS ONLY INTERESTED IN MONEY.
And the military mafia they dont know the meaning of Safety, these guys are dangerous and destroyed the whole reputation of XQ.
The only method of treatment would be the cleaning of the whole Managment and the 76 gang. Sun Express is an important part of THOMAS COOK and they must do an AUDIT asap otherwise the next accident is just arournd the corner
And can u imagine all pilots were forced to fly more than 300 hours. More than 300 hours. And this was approved by Turkish CAA. A few pilots denied and were told by Nail A. if they dont sign they will have big problems. Only 13 Pilots signed. Most of them 76 gang.
I would like to know if Condor and Lufthansa know about this and especially THE GERMAN AUTHORITIES.
Within the Company it is strictly forbidden to tallk about this and the Poznan accident. Why Mr General Paul????? WHY????
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Maxblow,
Yes we have a pilots association and guess what???..........
It is being run by the 76ers Black Smoke is running the show in Antalya e.g. ............... need more comment?
A few years ago when they where gaining strenght the triangle was complete, now look at this power structure real carefull :
-OF( =GMFO Sunexpress is a 76er).
-Talpa(pilots association turkey and antalya is a76er)
-DGCA is a 76er (called "SPITFIRE" and was been Xferred from Sunexpress to the post ).
And thus all the people started fleeing from turkey ...............
Coming to your request towards the moderator to close this thread on this forum ............
Way to go............. its nothing we are not unfamiliar with so we could handle that. See my previous post, the very same above mentioned guys closed the entire forum in turkey.
If you could pull this off with the moderator they would probably make you a 76er in honour.
Regarding the FDM programme,
SXS was THE first in turkey to have a complete up and running program. And was one o the first ones over EU.
But guess what,...........its under the supervision since its introduction by M.Ak....(recently resigned OF/GMFO) and the flag
was handed over to Flight Director Kamil.
very very sad .....................................................
Yes we have a pilots association and guess what???..........
It is being run by the 76ers Black Smoke is running the show in Antalya e.g. ............... need more comment?
A few years ago when they where gaining strenght the triangle was complete, now look at this power structure real carefull :
-OF( =GMFO Sunexpress is a 76er).
-Talpa(pilots association turkey and antalya is a76er)
-DGCA is a 76er (called "SPITFIRE" and was been Xferred from Sunexpress to the post ).
And thus all the people started fleeing from turkey ...............
Coming to your request towards the moderator to close this thread on this forum ............
Way to go............. its nothing we are not unfamiliar with so we could handle that. See my previous post, the very same above mentioned guys closed the entire forum in turkey.
If you could pull this off with the moderator they would probably make you a 76er in honour.
Regarding the FDM programme,
SXS was THE first in turkey to have a complete up and running program. And was one o the first ones over EU.
But guess what,...........its under the supervision since its introduction by M.Ak....(recently resigned OF/GMFO) and the flag
was handed over to Flight Director Kamil.
very very sad .....................................................
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Yes it makes me so angru every single day to see that these incompetent guys like French muhs.., piggy Der.., dalton Na.. and Flighdirector Kamel are controlling these former great company.As anotherdriver mentioned XQ had full support from LH.
These guys are like cancer. Its very hard to fight against and at the end most of the time the patient dies.
I remember the time when these a..lickers joined XQ, they all sucked up to Sec.. Bay... Hocam Hocam got.. girebilirmiyiz.
I have to puke.
Our 76 guys tried to ban foreign pilots because XQ was monitored all the time by LH Examiners. And they didnt like this.
Very very sad
The FDM program is agood thing if its used by a professional airline and competent Safety Tea.
Aim of this system should never be punishment.
In charge of Sun EX Safety team is Flighdirector Kamil.
I know that kamil and friends are using the system to monitot individuals and then to punish them.
These guys are like cancer. Its very hard to fight against and at the end most of the time the patient dies.
I remember the time when these a..lickers joined XQ, they all sucked up to Sec.. Bay... Hocam Hocam got.. girebilirmiyiz.
I have to puke.
Our 76 guys tried to ban foreign pilots because XQ was monitored all the time by LH Examiners. And they didnt like this.
Very very sad
The FDM program is agood thing if its used by a professional airline and competent Safety Tea.
Aim of this system should never be punishment.
In charge of Sun EX Safety team is Flighdirector Kamil.
I know that kamil and friends are using the system to monitot individuals and then to punish them.
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I was happy when Capt F.H left company because we always had problem with him. But we all were wrong. He was good manager. If i see him in future I will say thank you and sorry capt H.
If I see what happened to my company now i also get angry. In the past everybody looked at us in turkey and we were proud to be in sunexpress. Now everybody laughing.
If I see what happened to my company now i also get angry. In the past everybody looked at us in turkey and we were proud to be in sunexpress. Now everybody laughing.
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Br. & Sun,
sounds like a swim in shark invested waters, if the union guys are members of the same team...
The reason I asked the moderator to place this in the rumours and news forum was simply because more people in there will read and know about it.
I know that most of your management pilots will probably not understand enough English to read and understand your concerns - but believe me, they'll try and will also try to track you guys down to finish you off.
I heard from friends before that TALPA (the pilots assocciation)
is useless, no influence whatsoever on companies or the CAA.
My deepest respect to you guys. You have the guts to speek up - but I doubt that this discussion will change anything.
You are the wake up call for the shareholders in Germany and hopefully all other connected companies within the T.Cook group.
All the best and good luck!
sounds like a swim in shark invested waters, if the union guys are members of the same team...
The reason I asked the moderator to place this in the rumours and news forum was simply because more people in there will read and know about it.
I know that most of your management pilots will probably not understand enough English to read and understand your concerns - but believe me, they'll try and will also try to track you guys down to finish you off.
I heard from friends before that TALPA (the pilots assocciation)
is useless, no influence whatsoever on companies or the CAA.
My deepest respect to you guys. You have the guts to speek up - but I doubt that this discussion will change anything.
You are the wake up call for the shareholders in Germany and hopefully all other connected companies within the T.Cook group.
All the best and good luck!
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Civilian 737,
I understand your frustrations but believe me "revenges" is not the right attitude to adopt. So please check your Attitude Ind. and be more constructive.
Fly safe
)
I understand your frustrations but believe me "revenges" is not the right attitude to adopt. So please check your Attitude Ind. and be more constructive.
Fly safe
)
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Hi sun737pilot,
i fully agree. ex-GM FHs aim was to have a 50/50 distribution of military/civilian pilots. which i think was necessary to achieve minimum safety on flights. now that most civilians have left XQ, the outcome is very obvious. there is no common sense left, (m)pilots just follow blind orders like they were used to, are easy to scare of, they would never question their leaders.
what upsets me most is in what dishonest way these 76ers tried to block civilians from getting their command training, cover up their own operationally dangerous mistakes, promote and upgrade their absolutely incompetent friends, disregarding seniority lists, etc, etc.
those 13 pilots who agreed to fly 300+ pm should really have their licences revoked. why should anyone risk the consequences of fatigue. another classic example how much these 76ers are willing to take unnecessary risks.
GM PS is a commercial figure who relies on his DO. his DO and all other yes-sayers should face the consequences in the first place.
speaking to a couple of friends from within, the whole show in XQ is fear driven. crews are not motivated, scared to report or scared to get a warning. a terrible environment to be in.
i feel sorry for all the senior military training pilots (real gentlemen) and civilian pilots to having to witness this breakdown.
lets hope there will be more corrective actions to follow (back on magenta line).
BTW, it is not wrong at all to blacklist the 76ers and their supporters. making all carriers in TR aware of what damage this bunch has caused and can cause, is the least you all can do
regards to you all
i fully agree. ex-GM FHs aim was to have a 50/50 distribution of military/civilian pilots. which i think was necessary to achieve minimum safety on flights. now that most civilians have left XQ, the outcome is very obvious. there is no common sense left, (m)pilots just follow blind orders like they were used to, are easy to scare of, they would never question their leaders.
what upsets me most is in what dishonest way these 76ers tried to block civilians from getting their command training, cover up their own operationally dangerous mistakes, promote and upgrade their absolutely incompetent friends, disregarding seniority lists, etc, etc.
those 13 pilots who agreed to fly 300+ pm should really have their licences revoked. why should anyone risk the consequences of fatigue. another classic example how much these 76ers are willing to take unnecessary risks.
GM PS is a commercial figure who relies on his DO. his DO and all other yes-sayers should face the consequences in the first place.
speaking to a couple of friends from within, the whole show in XQ is fear driven. crews are not motivated, scared to report or scared to get a warning. a terrible environment to be in.
i feel sorry for all the senior military training pilots (real gentlemen) and civilian pilots to having to witness this breakdown.
lets hope there will be more corrective actions to follow (back on magenta line).
BTW, it is not wrong at all to blacklist the 76ers and their supporters. making all carriers in TR aware of what damage this bunch has caused and can cause, is the least you all can do
regards to you all
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Its very very sad that only a few 76er guys have contro over 60 pilot. Nobody have the guts to speak up because they dont stick together. Everybodu is scared .
These 76er military mafia introduced a kind of company spy system. A captain said in ameeting " what do you want from us to fly the plane or to protect our a...s. He was right.
They worked very hard to have the University degree as one of the minimum requirements to get promoted. Why? What was wrong on the previus requirements. Do you think they improved their safety with this stupid thing. NO NO NO NO NO!!!!
Everybody knows why
These 76er military mafia introduced a kind of company spy system. A captain said in ameeting " what do you want from us to fly the plane or to protect our a...s. He was right.
They worked very hard to have the University degree as one of the minimum requirements to get promoted. Why? What was wrong on the previus requirements. Do you think they improved their safety with this stupid thing. NO NO NO NO NO!!!!
Everybody knows why
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Diabolo,
It appears that they are in a full scale war according to the new ' world order rules'. So trying to maintain ones values as many people in the world have or try to adopt will definetally not work.
They have allready managed to get rid off some guys who now are writing offshore. In other terms, the remaining bunch is weakened in their political strength. Excuse me for the term but they have allready been scrapped in the company's medium to long term planning.Meaning they are being used as long as possible as FO's but when the time comes they will be terminated. This is how I have interpreted the situation.
Therefore Cyvylian737 is writing in anger, because there is no way out but bailing out what he does not want, call it because of venguence or whatever label one can give to it.............
Mind you it will shorten your life. Is it worth it?
Taking the above into account , the replacement " forces" for the leaving bloke's have to be 76ers.
If one is planning a takeover this will be the next logical step? Correct?
Now I personally think that Cyvylians feelings/wishes are well founded but he will never be able to fullfill them. Sorry.
You are probably on the target list, after all these preparetory work they will not make any mistakes.
What I really would like to know, what was and is the civilian/military ratio ( and the military part brokendown to 76ers).
It appears that they are in a full scale war according to the new ' world order rules'. So trying to maintain ones values as many people in the world have or try to adopt will definetally not work.
They have allready managed to get rid off some guys who now are writing offshore. In other terms, the remaining bunch is weakened in their political strength. Excuse me for the term but they have allready been scrapped in the company's medium to long term planning.Meaning they are being used as long as possible as FO's but when the time comes they will be terminated. This is how I have interpreted the situation.
Therefore Cyvylian737 is writing in anger, because there is no way out but bailing out what he does not want, call it because of venguence or whatever label one can give to it.............
Mind you it will shorten your life. Is it worth it?
Taking the above into account , the replacement " forces" for the leaving bloke's have to be 76ers.
If one is planning a takeover this will be the next logical step? Correct?
Now I personally think that Cyvylians feelings/wishes are well founded but he will never be able to fullfill them. Sorry.
You are probably on the target list, after all these preparetory work they will not make any mistakes.
What I really would like to know, what was and is the civilian/military ratio ( and the military part brokendown to 76ers).
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I dont think this about being a civillian or mil. guy. It is that the 76 ers are a bunch of half/half criminal and loyal to their corps. I really dont understand these guys, even some of the guys that I graduated with thinks they are doing it right. Do you know why ?
Because even my comrades so happy to think that if civilian guys dont get their upgrade they will !!!
Why they did not raise the college requirement to 4 years degree instead of 2 ? I have graduated after than these guys so my degree counts as 4 years , but theirs 2.THATS WHY......!
This just unacceptable.
One of these days/weeks/months we will have an accident of somesort.
People are totally unmotivated.
Where are the guys who really owns this company.
LUFTHANSA , TURKISH !!!!!!!!!
It is time to ask ,what the hell is going on here.....
Because even my comrades so happy to think that if civilian guys dont get their upgrade they will !!!
Why they did not raise the college requirement to 4 years degree instead of 2 ? I have graduated after than these guys so my degree counts as 4 years , but theirs 2.THATS WHY......!
This just unacceptable.
One of these days/weeks/months we will have an accident of somesort.
People are totally unmotivated.
Where are the guys who really owns this company.
LUFTHANSA , TURKISH !!!!!!!!!
It is time to ask ,what the hell is going on here.....
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I was military pilot but now I am airlinepilot. I can not understand why this people still want to continue military life. When I joined commercial airline in 1989 it was not important for me if military or civilian pilot. Experience is important and character. And I am looking to this 76 group, they have no character and no flying skills, but they think they are god.
They are demotivating all of us and special this young co-pilots. Very very sad
They are demotivating all of us and special this young co-pilots. Very very sad