Emirates DECs
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: I've got a phat gut
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Laura,
how do you feel about allegedly "knocking back the DEC offer" at EK due to conditions? “did not realise the conditions were a lot less than a normal Capt at EK”? The pay is actually more (check the website, if it's still written there). Up to, what is it, about 27000 Dhm/m or so??
Still stand by your decision?
how do you feel about allegedly "knocking back the DEC offer" at EK due to conditions? “did not realise the conditions were a lot less than a normal Capt at EK”? The pay is actually more (check the website, if it's still written there). Up to, what is it, about 27000 Dhm/m or so??
Still stand by your decision?
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
phat boy Re Laury and DEC EK. I think you will find that Laury is an A320 Capt who applied to EK thinking he would only be considered as an F/O but found he was up for a DEC Position. If I am wrong then I am sure he will correct me.
Maybe as an A320 Capt he did not feel confident enough to go through with joining EK with all the attendant risks of a new Aircraft and new Routes?? Especially with a perhaps unhelpful bunch of F/O's and maybe resentful Training Captains to deal with as well!?
Maybe as an A320 Capt he did not feel confident enough to go through with joining EK with all the attendant risks of a new Aircraft and new Routes?? Especially with a perhaps unhelpful bunch of F/O's and maybe resentful Training Captains to deal with as well!?
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To all potential DEC's & other Ek outsiders watching this thread with interest:
It should come as no surprise for any who have frequented this forum over the past few months that the pilot morale/job satisfaction within EK has plummeted to an all time low in such a dramatic fashion. Therefore, do not be surprised or upset by the comments from some within the company when pertaining to the DEC's.
When you double the workload of the training department and then in the same stroke cut their training salaries in half (there goes the support of the Training department); when you demoralize the F/O's by virtue of changing their terms and conditions to gain command and then almost in the same breath parachute DEC's ahead of of an extremely talented and experienced group of F/O's because they now do not have "the experience" (on an established seniority list; both expat and local; many with thousand of hours of command time; there goes the support of the F/O's!), and then you piss off the line Captains by being offering a starting salary for DEC's 10-23% above the starting salary currently paid to the Captains who joined this company in the "not so rosy" times and helped to build this company to where it currently is (there goes the support of the line Captain's) and it should be clear to you why the attitudes present are justified. If there was a ever a way to totally mismanage the pilot workforce I have yet to see a management having done so with such speed and efficiency.
To those who are planning to benefit from the offer presented (or who have accepted), I offer no disrespect. However, I would think it very naive of anyone currently applying to think they will get any help with the recruitment process from those currently within the company (in any capacity, as I have already alluded to) nor any support from those within the company if/when you arrive.
Best of luck to all that apply and good luck to those who have accepted; I really hope you did you homework because you are in for an education. I just hope to hell you didn't leave a good job to come to this outfit because in due course you are going to be just one more of the growing numbers who are shaking their heads at the mistake they made.
It should come as no surprise for any who have frequented this forum over the past few months that the pilot morale/job satisfaction within EK has plummeted to an all time low in such a dramatic fashion. Therefore, do not be surprised or upset by the comments from some within the company when pertaining to the DEC's.
When you double the workload of the training department and then in the same stroke cut their training salaries in half (there goes the support of the Training department); when you demoralize the F/O's by virtue of changing their terms and conditions to gain command and then almost in the same breath parachute DEC's ahead of of an extremely talented and experienced group of F/O's because they now do not have "the experience" (on an established seniority list; both expat and local; many with thousand of hours of command time; there goes the support of the F/O's!), and then you piss off the line Captains by being offering a starting salary for DEC's 10-23% above the starting salary currently paid to the Captains who joined this company in the "not so rosy" times and helped to build this company to where it currently is (there goes the support of the line Captain's) and it should be clear to you why the attitudes present are justified. If there was a ever a way to totally mismanage the pilot workforce I have yet to see a management having done so with such speed and efficiency.
To those who are planning to benefit from the offer presented (or who have accepted), I offer no disrespect. However, I would think it very naive of anyone currently applying to think they will get any help with the recruitment process from those currently within the company (in any capacity, as I have already alluded to) nor any support from those within the company if/when you arrive.
Best of luck to all that apply and good luck to those who have accepted; I really hope you did you homework because you are in for an education. I just hope to hell you didn't leave a good job to come to this outfit because in due course you are going to be just one more of the growing numbers who are shaking their heads at the mistake they made.
Last edited by Dune; 5th Jan 2004 at 22:05.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Joobs
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
very well said dune. important to add unlikely to see outright hostility from the incumbents toward DECs despite the depth of ill feeling. Militancy not tolerated and professionalism still abounds amongst pilots.
aspirants do yourselves a favour and read dune's last paragraph again.
Not a laughing matter but..... hehh hehh hehh... anyway.
aspirants do yourselves a favour and read dune's last paragraph again.
Not a laughing matter but..... hehh hehh hehh... anyway.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dune You say you have not seen an Airline management act with " speed and efficiency" to upset their Pilots. I have, because here in SIA the management have been behaving in this manner for years,although DEC's are not a problem here but in everything else EK mirrors SQ exactly.
Until Pilots stop applying in droves to these companies then expect more of the same!
Until Pilots stop applying in droves to these companies then expect more of the same!
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Millerscourt:
Can't comment upon SIA but judging your comments it sounds like SQ and EK management are in a competition to see who can mismanage their pilot workforce the worst! At this stage I give the lead to the EK bunch. It will be really interesting to see a few years down the road once the world's aviation outlook has improved and worldwide hiring has begun to see how many stick around these outfits. I suspect more than a few will leave for greener pastures (literally as well as figuratively).
As you said, until pilots stop coming to these companies the practice will continue, as there is no impetus for the management to change. As such, I think it is important to get the message out to the community on this website so at least those who are blinded by the shiny airplanes and empty promises will know exactly what they are getting themselves into. Foretold is forewarned.
Can't comment upon SIA but judging your comments it sounds like SQ and EK management are in a competition to see who can mismanage their pilot workforce the worst! At this stage I give the lead to the EK bunch. It will be really interesting to see a few years down the road once the world's aviation outlook has improved and worldwide hiring has begun to see how many stick around these outfits. I suspect more than a few will leave for greener pastures (literally as well as figuratively).
As you said, until pilots stop coming to these companies the practice will continue, as there is no impetus for the management to change. As such, I think it is important to get the message out to the community on this website so at least those who are blinded by the shiny airplanes and empty promises will know exactly what they are getting themselves into. Foretold is forewarned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: HERE AND THERE
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All this is sad and unfair, period.
But we must keep in mind that it is dictated, like a lot of things today, by the MARKET FORCES!
One day, experienced pilots will be a rare asset again and will be threated with the due respect, otherwise they will flock to greener pastures...
It is naive to try to convince professionals under present poor packages (or none at all!) not to apply to an unfriendly outfit.
But we must keep in mind that it is dictated, like a lot of things today, by the MARKET FORCES!
One day, experienced pilots will be a rare asset again and will be threated with the due respect, otherwise they will flock to greener pastures...
It is naive to try to convince professionals under present poor packages (or none at all!) not to apply to an unfriendly outfit.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just call it like I see it L.L.
Should the promised "review" yield any substance I will be the first to beat the drums for the EK band but until then I sure as hell ain't married to this outfit and I call a spade a spade.
Should the promised "review" yield any substance I will be the first to beat the drums for the EK band but until then I sure as hell ain't married to this outfit and I call a spade a spade.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Sharp End.
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No doubt about it, once the pilot market picks up people will leave companies like EK in their droves, and the co. management, bless them will look at each other with puzzled looks and wonder why it is happening.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: I've got a phat gut
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Millerscourt,
yeah I know he said all that but I wanted to see if he had anything more to say.
The thing is, he also said on the 13th of Nov (page 1 and 2 of this thread) he had an interview coming up. Then on the 24th, he said he’d been offered the job “last Friday”. I presume he meant the 21st.
A quick look at the calendar and you see this leaves only a single 5 day period for the 5 day DEC interview process and means they would need to have offered him the job either on the Wed practically as he left the sim or on the Friday (local equivalent of a Sunday, and none of the team work Thursdays or Fridays -ie the weekends). He says it was the Friday.
I think someone’s telling little Porky Pie lies around here. In fact I think someone's not even a pilot. Sad to have to mention it, at all, but I hate the idea of some flog spinning BS on a topic that is obviously important to a lot of people.
Read the other comments on those two posts and the smell of BS is even stronger
yeah I know he said all that but I wanted to see if he had anything more to say.
The thing is, he also said on the 13th of Nov (page 1 and 2 of this thread) he had an interview coming up. Then on the 24th, he said he’d been offered the job “last Friday”. I presume he meant the 21st.
A quick look at the calendar and you see this leaves only a single 5 day period for the 5 day DEC interview process and means they would need to have offered him the job either on the Wed practically as he left the sim or on the Friday (local equivalent of a Sunday, and none of the team work Thursdays or Fridays -ie the weekends). He says it was the Friday.
I think someone’s telling little Porky Pie lies around here. In fact I think someone's not even a pilot. Sad to have to mention it, at all, but I hate the idea of some flog spinning BS on a topic that is obviously important to a lot of people.
Read the other comments on those two posts and the smell of BS is even stronger
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely any DEC will have the Salary agreed in writing in the offer of Employment from EK and therefore forms part of the contract???
If indeed EK are renaging on the agreed Salary then they are learning fast from SQ cos that is exactly what SQ have done!! Thay have also discontinued the 10% Provident Fund without any consultation and won't even payout the money until one leaves in order to ensure no Pilot's disappear in the Night!!!
The managements of EK and SQ are vying with each other to see who can be the most contemptable. Looks pretty even at present.
If indeed EK are renaging on the agreed Salary then they are learning fast from SQ cos that is exactly what SQ have done!! Thay have also discontinued the 10% Provident Fund without any consultation and won't even payout the money until one leaves in order to ensure no Pilot's disappear in the Night!!!
The managements of EK and SQ are vying with each other to see who can be the most contemptable. Looks pretty even at present.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Sharp End.
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apparently 2 DEC courses have been canx in Jan/Feb due to not enough people & drop outs from the course.
Rumor is that accel command req are going to be brought back down to original levels...surprise, surprise they can't get enough people for the left hand seat!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rumor is that accel command req are going to be brought back down to original levels...surprise, surprise they can't get enough people for the left hand seat!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sluggums Can EK even get enough recruits to sit in the RHS?
New joiners are going to have to wait a very long time for Commands if one can believe that EK is packed full of experienced high hour F/O's as certain contributors say it is.
With EK going real long haul with two F/O's and just one Captain then Command prospects look bleak for new joiners.
Perhaps EK will have to lower the hours requirements in order to get F/O's to join who are prepared to sit for many years in the RHS??
New joiners are going to have to wait a very long time for Commands if one can believe that EK is packed full of experienced high hour F/O's as certain contributors say it is.
With EK going real long haul with two F/O's and just one Captain then Command prospects look bleak for new joiners.
Perhaps EK will have to lower the hours requirements in order to get F/O's to join who are prepared to sit for many years in the RHS??
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
syd and jfk, the real long stuff 2 crews. new comers will be longer than 3 years as that is just the min right now. i don't think the mins are going to change but the higher time fo's are not appling so they will have to be happy getting guys with just the mins and for those an upgrade in @ 5 years is not that bad, the big thing is the fo payscale for those 5 years
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sluggums, Just when is this much touted Pilot shortage going to happen? I have heard the term for at least 20 years and it never happens.
I can't see pilots (or anyone else for that matter) leaving EK "in droves", it is an exciting and dynamic place to be and you can't say that for much of the rest of the aviation world.
Sure, you might get more cash in China or Vietnam.....but try persuading your wife or kids that that is the place you ought to be!
I can't see pilots (or anyone else for that matter) leaving EK "in droves", it is an exciting and dynamic place to be and you can't say that for much of the rest of the aviation world.
Sure, you might get more cash in China or Vietnam.....but try persuading your wife or kids that that is the place you ought to be!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: in the middle
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Phat Boy
In reference to your comments re my situation, as usual you are a smart a...se.
But to answer your question:
In the interview I asked what my salary was compared to line captains in EK. I was told that mine was alot less. Maybe they were testing my response.
I asked because all I actually wanted was to be on the same salary as others. There is nothing worse than having different pay scales for pilots who do the same job. I have experienced A and B scales before and it sucks (although a reality). You are forever watching what you say in reference to your package as the person next to you may not be on the same conditions.
So I hope that answers your as usual pig headed post.
In reference to your comments re my situation, as usual you are a smart a...se.
But to answer your question:
In the interview I asked what my salary was compared to line captains in EK. I was told that mine was alot less. Maybe they were testing my response.
I asked because all I actually wanted was to be on the same salary as others. There is nothing worse than having different pay scales for pilots who do the same job. I have experienced A and B scales before and it sucks (although a reality). You are forever watching what you say in reference to your package as the person next to you may not be on the same conditions.
So I hope that answers your as usual pig headed post.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Knight,
It's great that you have the 'glass is half full' outlook in regard to the company.
Personally I'd be more than happy to spend a few years in either China or Vietnam, or commute from somewhere to work there. Both places are rich in history and culture and I'm sure are exciting and dynamic but exciting and dynamic don't pay the school fees.
I'll have to go with the better lifestyle through more dirhams in the bank team. I guess that makes me a drover.
It's great that you have the 'glass is half full' outlook in regard to the company.
Personally I'd be more than happy to spend a few years in either China or Vietnam, or commute from somewhere to work there. Both places are rich in history and culture and I'm sure are exciting and dynamic but exciting and dynamic don't pay the school fees.
I'll have to go with the better lifestyle through more dirhams in the bank team. I guess that makes me a drover.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: out of a suitcase
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't understand what is going on at EK. I wanted to apply as FO, but since I only have A310 type (and 1500 on type), but not the 2000 Hrs over 20 tons, or whatever the new requirement is, I didn't apply. I have nearly 6000 Hrs and all the other experience.
I now see a posting for A310 typed people. Do the new higher minimums apply?
Why are they turning experienced people away with the silly new FO requirements. As it stands, if you have lots of experience, you don't want to wait years for a command,so won't apply, and if you don't have any experience, they don't want you anyway. Who is going to captain their aircraft 5 years from now?
I am confused, and I don't know whether I am now eligible to apply anyway.
I will be in Dubai for an interview (obviously not with Emirates), next week.
If someone could PM me prior to meeting in Dubai, I would appreciate it . It would be good to have an insider's perspective.
Thanks, Rosbif
I now see a posting for A310 typed people. Do the new higher minimums apply?
Why are they turning experienced people away with the silly new FO requirements. As it stands, if you have lots of experience, you don't want to wait years for a command,so won't apply, and if you don't have any experience, they don't want you anyway. Who is going to captain their aircraft 5 years from now?
I am confused, and I don't know whether I am now eligible to apply anyway.
I will be in Dubai for an interview (obviously not with Emirates), next week.
If someone could PM me prior to meeting in Dubai, I would appreciate it . It would be good to have an insider's perspective.
Thanks, Rosbif